Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters Struggles with nontoxic shot

Mule Deer, I'm having a heck of a time with steel shot not killing what I hit. Done some research and followed the state of Washington's shot size and choke recommendations. But I still have a hard time cleanly killing ducks, pheasants, huns, & quail. Have you done any experimenting and found a better solution when hunting in areas that require nontoxic shot? TIA

Not Mule Deer but my thoughts FWIW. Take closer shots, use larger shot, use more choke (not always possible or advisable), shoot one of the other non toxic loads; ITX, Tungsten, Bismuth.

Not a GW but I'll give you my 2 cents. As a general rule of thumb I size up 2 shot sizes. Steel also patterns a lot different than lead, you need to pattern your gun to see what the pattern density and POI look like. I've had no issues killing big ducks with steel 4s out to about 40 yards through a LM. I've also found there's a balance between payload and speed. You can increase the theoretical lethal range of a pellet by increasing the initial velocity but the trade-off is payload and at some point you lose so much pattern density it's not worth it. I've read of guys pushing 7/8 oz of shot to nearly 2000 fps but I haven't seen any fantastic patterns from those loads.

I was given a fairly good rule of thumb.....when using steel shot one should use shot size three sizes larger than the lead size you would ordinarily use. Example.....if you would normally use #6 shot lead then use #3 shot steel....it has been a good rule of thumb for me.

My personal experience for steel shot is different than yours....I've actually had good luck with it......I also use almost exclusively 3" loads in both the 12 Ga and the 20 Ga.....

The velocity gains of steel shot (the others become beastly expensive) more than compensate for the loss of density. That said, so far I've only used it on waterfowl.

All the advice so far is good, and today's steel loads work pretty well.

That said, I've found various denser non-toxics work better. I started shooting bismuth shot in the mid-1990's, just to see how it worked, and despite early criticisms of shot breaking up I've never been able to tell the difference between bismuth and lead shot in the field, on birds up to Canada geese and wild turkeys. Rio offers a bunch of bismuth loads.

Have also had great results from various super-dense, super-hard shot loads, whether Hevi-Shot or whatever the ammo companies load these days. Have been field-testing various brands since the mid-1990's as well, and

Have also had great luck with handloading Ballistic Products' ITX shot, both the harder and "thin barrel" safe versions.

The problem with all of these alternatives, of course, is price, and handloading doesn't save that much money.
You also have to pattern each one in YOUR shotgun, since each has its own reaction to various chokes. Bismuth and the soft ITX will pretty much act like lead, but all the others will vary considerably in patterning.

The big advantages of harder, denser non-toxic shot are the ability to use smaller shot, increasing pattern density, and deeper penetration at longer ranges. But I've found using very small, super-heavy shot isn't as effective as mid-range sizes, like #6 to #4 on ducks and geese.

We kill ALOT of waterfowl here and what MuleDeer said above is spot on. If you are willing to pony up the cash for Hevishot, etc. you will see a big increase in kills over steel. I grew up in the steel shot era and have never had the luxury of shooting ducks/geese with lead. I know that steel has come a long ways over the years and we shoot cases of it every season, but the times I run the heavier (and way more costly) alternatives I've seen a big difference in the way they kill over steel shot. You do need to pattern your gun too, and you may be surprised with patterns you get with more open chokes that you might think you need. Good luck and I'm jealous of you guys who grew up killing birds with lead.

Based on the Washington state (Tom Roster's 2013 nontoxic shot lethality table):
pheasants steel 3 to 2 1oz. Minimum load weight, IC or Mod choke.
Quail steel 7 5/8oz. Minimum load weight, IC or LM choke.
Large ducks over decoys steel 6 to 2, 3/4 - 1 oz. Minimum load weight, IC or Mod choke.

I went #2 steel for pheasants and ducks and #7 steel for quail and huns. Ammo is Kent fast steel both 1-1/6 oz load. I'm jump shooting ducks in small farm ponds and upland birds are shot over pointers. I'm using fixed choked IC & LM side by side 12 bore shotgun.

What I'm seeing are birds pillow cased and they keep flying, to be found later by the dogs. Drives me crazy! In lead I normally use 7-1/2's on quail and huns and 6's for pheasants 1-1/8oz loads out of the same shotgun.

What am I doing wrong other than not patterning the steel? Never thought it would matter.

Is it the ranges your shooting them at? Like I mentioned above, I've grown up with steel and run both 20's and 12's on waterfowl with from #4-BBB steel. It all boils down to how far I'm shooting for me. Killing woodies over decoys in fields I can run steel 4's in a 20 with a cylinder and IC choke in my citori and be fine, but on the other end of the spectrum with late season geese I'm running one of my benelli 12's with BB or BBB steel or #2 hevishot. I know I've killed geese stone dead with hevishot at ranges that I wouldn't even pull the trigger while shooting steel.

I would start by patterning the steel. It can definitely have a different pattern density and, especially, average point of impact than lead or heavier non-toxics. It also helps to shoot some clays with steel, because your timing can be off a bit after shooting lead.

As I noted, bismuth has always worked for me just about like lead, whether in killing power or leading birds, in the same shot sizes and charges. Dunno how much bird-hunting you're doing, but I've found the extra price of bismuth is often balanced out by how many birds fall dead with one shot, rather than having to shoot 'em again with steel.

We do far more waterfowl hunting on our own than with guides, but on the occasions we've been field-testing various denser non-toxics on guided hunts, more than on guide has turned to us after a few birds and said, "You're not shooting steel, are you?"

Mule Deer have you tried Hevi-X loads yet? The price is a little higher than steel is it worth it?

I shoot blue box Federal @1550 fps and cleanly kill geese and cranes at 50+ yards with 1s and 2s.
I've winged a bird and had em standing in a field where I could use a range finder and was able to
knock em flat at 60+ yards.

I had given up on waterfowl hunting as steel first came out but once I found the higher velocity ammo
and the PATTERNMASTER chokes, I'm back into the game.

High Velocity and Patternmaster!

Thank you all for giving me things to look at! I'll differently try some of the other products that you're recommending & I'll certainly pattern the loads to see how they are shooting.

And yes Brad, I grew up pass shooting black ducks & woodies in Maine with #7-1/2's 1-1/8 oz. lead loads. LOL With an IC choked Rem. 870 to boot! And I seldom even saw a cripple, dead as a stone was common.

A few thoughts: I started waterfowl hunting before lead shot was poisonous. In other words, it was all we used. Despite what you sometimes are lead to believe, ducks were sometimes crippled with lead shot. When non-toxic was first mandated, I gave up on waterfowl for some time. When I got back into it, I began using #2 steel for ducks and geese both. In the early-season swamp hunting I shoot three inch steel twos, usually federal, but others sometimes, in my Ruger Red Label. Ducks die. Easily. Later on, on the big water, I shoot 3 1/2" Federal Black Cloud from my Beretta auto and I kill a lot of ducks stone dead at 50 yards. Occasional cripples? Yeah.... but no more than the good old days shooting lead. Adjusted for inflation using such metrics as the cost of gasoline, liquor, bread and Smith and Wesson revolvers, I don't think we're paying any more for steel than we did for lead in the early sixties.

I can say from from my personal experience if you are "pillow casing", which I assume you mean hitting the bird and causing feathers to fly free and the birds are flying a distance before falling you aren't using enough lead and need to do a little informal clay shooting with your preferred loads. Steel doesn't deform or transfer energy like lead. It kills mostly by penetration, so a shot that hits the body but low in the lungs and liver while making an impressive display of falling feathers will often produce delayed kills.
We don't have quail or Hungarian partridge here but I'd suggest perhaps trying Kent's 1 1/8 2 3/4" load for waterfowl and pheasants, its my preference although I shoot #3's for the most part unless geese are likely.

Try BB's for ducks with an IC. and I use #7's for woodcock with an open choke on state land around duck impoundments. I still use lead when I can. Turkey's get heavyshot.

I’ll be the odd man out here. I’ve had better luck with steel using smaller shot. I shoot open chokes and adjust my lead. You have to be hitting birds in the head and neck to be consistently folding them up and smaller shot gives you more wiggle room with the denser patterns. I’ve killed countless ducks over decoys with steel 7 target loads through a double choked skeet 1 and 2. I even shot a few geese with that combo one year with no cripples.

I don’t like steel but if I have to use it I consider my max range to be about 30 yards and that alleviates most of the problems with getting clean kills. If I step up to my SP10 or a 3.5” 12ga I’ll shoot a little bigger shot and extend my range a little but short shells with big shot has never been a good combo for me, too many holes in the pattern and too few pellets in the bird.

I always like smaller than typical steel shot when compared to my hunting buddies. Now, I also used better choke tubes and more premium shells...but I haven't ever seen an issue with 4's for most all duck hunting. 6's worked very well too. The best way forward is to get a few different loads and different chokes and get out a pattern board.

I concur with many of the above posts regarding patterning, shot size, velocity, and especially shooting ability.

Like many, I started waterfowl hunting when lead was the rule and continued using it in Canada until it was eliminated there. Cripples occurred in about the same degree with lead as with today's steel and if one was skilled they had a high number of killed birds to cripples and a high cripple rate to kills if not skilled. There really isn't a substitute for putting the main part of the pattern on the vitals and that is determined more by skill than what the shot type is. In other words, it doesn't matter if you use a shotgun, rifle, pistol, or spear you need to put the projectile in the vitals to kill it. Shoot the animal in the butt or break a wing and it won't matter what shot type you used- the bird will still be a cripple.

I found my best all around success on larger puddle ducks and divers with a 1 1/4 oz load of steel 2 in the 1375-1450 fps range and the same load in 1 or BB for geese to a weight of ought 10 pounds and BBB for larger geese, cranes, and swans. I am using mid-level loads like Remington Nitro, Winchester Drylok, Kent Fasteel, et al. I find these loads to be a good balance between velocity, recoil, and pattern density. They also seem to have much the same leads as my target loads at the longer ranges which simplifies things. With proper choke and shot size I feel any bird within 50 yards or a bit further is dead if I do my job correctly. That is really all the better even the best lead loads could do.

I'm not a serious pattern tester but I have shot enough patterns to recognize what performs well for me. As I already mentioned, I shoot mostly steel though I am familiar with the other types as I have used the various incarnations of bismuth, Hevi-shot, Kent Matrix, Federal's tungsten/polymer and tungsten/iron, Fiocchi Tundra, and others as they have come out. I believe in these shot types in bores smaller than 12 ga but rely on steel for 12 and 10 ga.

The real key I noticed most is as my shooting skill grew, the number of birds killed per shot increased, the cripple percentage decreased, and the more confidence I had with steel. I started with trap, realized skeet was closer to what I actually saw I the field, and finally found sporting clays, particularly FITASC, to be the best training. I shot competion as having a record of score showed whether I improved or not as in "fun" shooting one tends to forget the misses and/or concentrates on what they can readily hit rather than that which is more difficult. couple this with shooting pigeons, crows, and starlings and one can greatly improve their kill percentages on other game.

That's an excellent point. I noticed a huge difference in my kill/cripple/miss ratio after a summer of shooting sporting clays twice a week. At the time I was handloading all of my target loads to about the same velocity as my waterfowl loads.

In addition to what has been stated above regarding moving up 2 sizes in shot you need increased velocity with steel. For me the sweet spot velocity wise seems to be around 1450 fps. Too much more and the patterns open up. We shoot our waterfowl (including geese) over decoys and the steel works great - specifically 12 ga, 1 1/4 oz #3s at 1450 fps with an IC choke. This same load should make a dandy pheasant load (we still use lead on the east coast for upland). You may be able to get away with #4 shot due to the thinner feathers on the pheasant but keep the velocity up and you should be fine.