Home Forums Hunting & Shooting General Big Game Kills with the 303 British?

I am looking for feedback on bullet performance with various bullets on game. Both good and bad.
Any brand and weight of bullets

Sierra, Speer Remington Prvi Partizan, Hornady, Barnes Woodleigh, Winchester Norma, any of them!

Please tell me what kind of results you have seen from various bullets on game.
Details please, details.

This spring I took out two youth hunters for black bear using the 180 gr Speer RN at 2400 fps. They each got their bears and no bullets recovered, exit wounds were about 1.5" in diameter. Their shooting was a bit off but the bullets performed very well, I would definitely use them again.

Good to know your custom builds are coming along...can't wait to see pictures.

I've shot a few hogs with the 303 using 215gr Woodleighs. Have yet to catch one, even on 200 plus hogs.

The Hornady 150g SP's at just under 2700 fps have done well on WT deer out of my Grandfather's .303

Thank guys.
I am looking for details because on the 2 Lee "Speed" rifles I am making, I am installing express sights. They have to be filed to zero at 100,200 and 300 yards. I want to zero each rifle with a load that I know if dependable for the hunter. If I use a bullet that is so-so and the hunter wants to use another he will not have the sights set for that load or bullet.

So this is more then just a passing curiosity for me. I am looking for details on bullet performance so I know the rifles can be used on any game up to elk size and the hunter will not have to change his load.

Bones hit and broken,
angle of the hit,
total penetration,
Size of the game,
Retained weight (if the bullet didn't exit)-- and so on, are the kind of details I want.

I would set both for rifles to use 215gr Woodleighs, but they can be hard to get and are extremely expensive, so if I can find another bullet that works well on game up to elk size that is easy to get and/or cost less I will zero the rifles for it. If I use them to zero the guns and 2 years from now the customer can't get them, or can't afford them, I am going to paint myself into a corner.

I want to hear about Remington Core-Lokts and PPU bullets too, if anyone has experience with either one.

The Winchester Power Points get very good feed back, but you can't buy their bullets, only their ammo.

Steve: I'd go with Hornady Interlocks at 303 Speeds, they will perform for you

At 303 Enfield speeds a Sierra 180gr Pro-Hunter would work.

My 303 double pretty much dictates the bullet weight and powder charge for proper sight regulation, I shoot the 215 gr Woodleighs to 2168 fps with 40 gr RL-15, I've hit deer and pigs from 30 to over 200 pounds at every conceivable angle from 5 to a bit over 130 yards, always complete penetration, and 7 outta 10 hits are DRT.

I would think that most or the bullets weighing 174-180 gr should hit to a similar point of aim so that's where I would look at. Like I mentioned earlier I'm a real fan of the 180 gr Speer, Sierra and Hornady should be good as well. For a premium bullet the 174 gr Woodleigh should be very good from the reviews I have seen, going to try those along side the 180 gr Speer in my gun.

https://www.ballisticstudies.com/Knowledgebase/.303+British.html

You may have seen this but it is some interesting reading.

The 174gn Hornady RN goes well in my No.1 .303 at 2500fps. All kills on deer and pigs have resulted in 100% penetration so far. All have been 1 shot kills as well.

Some years ago I read "Man Eaters of the Tsavo". John Patterson used a 303 in all of his shooting. One thing I noticed is how often he'd shoot a lion and then say it escaped. I had to conclude that it's a poor choice for lion. Admittedly, I don't recall a glut of lions in No. America.

There 2 posts are encouraging. They are not theoretical but from experience.

"The 174gn Hornady RN goes well in my No.1 .303 at 2500fps. All kills on deer and pigs have resulted in 100% penetration so far. All have been 1 shot kills as well."

"This spring I took out two youth hunters for black bear using the 180 gr Speer RN at 2400 fps. They each got their bears and no bullets recovered, exit wounds were about 1.5" in diameter."

Can you men please tell me about the angles of the shots, bones hit if any, and the weight of the game?

I'd agree that the Woodleighs are probably the very best, but as a gun maker I can't set the rifles up with ammo that the owners may not be able to get a few years down the road. Availability is on and off and that can be a huge problem, and also the cost of the Woodleighs means that if I were to supply both guns with a "lifetime" supply of bullet it would add about $500 to each gun, and I am the one gambling that $1000. Gun-makers just don't make enough money to have an extra $1000 laying around to gamble that way with. (At least this one doesn't)

But good deep bone breaking performance with Hornady's or Speer's would be a real blessing. I can supply each gun with about 100 rounds of ammo, and the load recorded so the owners can duplicate it at any time. And if they wanted a "lifetime supply" when they get the guns it's within reach of the average shooter to buy 500-1000 American bullets.

Don't know if this counts cause my .303 liked .308 diameter Nosler Partitions, 180 grainers..and of course...they worked!

Nice pics of your Great Grandson Poobs, looks like you trained him well.

That was mean...

The 303 bullet I've used most often is the Sierra 180 gr Pro-Hunter. It's never been used on any game other than a dozen WI deer. Weights were from carry it out to 200 lbs dressed. Shot angles varied between classic broadside behind the shoulder to head on to Texas heart shot. Ribs, shoulders, and the pelvis were hit.as was the spine. The lone bullet recovered was the one that broke the pelvis. It had shed its core. Ranges were 10' to about 100 yds, tops.

I've been lookng for a turd in hell to no avail for months now.

No worries, you'll get one soon enough for disrespecting the Poobah...

, and a ripper cut soundly in my direction too I bet. lmao!

Ingwe.
Do you happen to know the groove to groove measurement on your Lee?

I have a Green Mountain barrel in both of these 2 Lees I am working on and they have a 302 land to land and a 310" groove to groove. If you are getting good accuracy from 308 bullets, and if my bore is a bit tighter I may just give up all together on 311"s and go to 180 grain 308s.
I can use 180 gr cup and core bullets to zero with, practice with and kill deer and antelope with, and 180 gr Partitions or Accu-Bonds for elk and bear and that would "cover a multitude of sins" I am sure.

The more I think of this, the more I am leaning toward just using 308 bullets.

I am not sure of the groove diameter on that rifle but JB and I have a theory.....because of the construction ( open base) of the NPT we think it might obdurate more easily to fill the grooves. I dunno, but it was an accurate bullet for sure in my rifle...

Here is my Irish Lee "Speed-ish" rifle so far.
I still have to fit the screws on the butt plate and cap and blue them as well as the rear swivel stud. I also need to get the checkering done, but it may be a few months before I can get to that.

I am ready to zero the sights now. One standing blade and 3 folding leafs,
OLYMPUS DIGITAL CAMERA by Steve Zihn, on Flickr
OLYMPUS DIGITAL CAMERA by Steve Zihn, on Flickr
OLYMPUS DIGITAL CAMERA by Steve Zihn, on Flickr
OLYMPUS DIGITAL CAMERA by Steve Zihn, on Flickr
OLYMPUS DIGITAL CAMERA by Steve Zihn, on Flickr
L Side Irish close up by Steve Zihn, on Flickr

Both rifles have turned out as I thought they would using your hands to sculpture both wood and steel. Impressive....

Beautiful rifles!!

What a beauty.

Thanks guys.
I am keeping that one I think. The next one is going to be for sale.
Probably be about 2 months before I get it done.

awesome rifle!!!!!

It's one cartridge I never loaded for. We took quite a few deer with ours and my son took his biggest buck to date. We always used the winchester 180s...

"Kills with the 303 British"
Probably the most famous would be the Red Baron being shot by a lone 303 from ground fire during a low level dog fight April 31 1918.

Salivating over these. Been some time since I've had one. They always seemed to get away. I too had a No. 1 that shot .308s better. Strange happenings.

I used a #4 with 180 grain Sierra bullets. My powder was IMR 4831 and I used fire formed Greek surplus brass. The velocity was down with that but it was very accurate.

Two West Virginia deer in 1988. A buck of about 150 pounds broadside at 125 yards. One round through the low chest and two hops then down. The bullet exited.

Second was a doe about the same size 1/4 towards also at 125 yards. . She went about 30 yards and down. Bullet found under the last far side rib.

FWIW, a Ruger No1 in 303 shoots the 308 180 Partition very well.

OK Guys, I did the .308" bullet test.
When I chambered these 2 rifles I made the camber to headspace on the shoulder instead of the rim. The Military chambers had the shoulders of the chambers .020" forward of the shoulder of the case and you can easily see the shoulder move forward on fired cases if you simply hold them alongside an unfired cartridge.
There is really nothing wrong with out the Brits did it but it does make case life a bit shorter if you don't neck size them after the 1st firing. Because I am supplying the dies and the load zeroed for the irons with the rifles I make, I took another approach.
I chambered the barrels so the cartridge will headspace on the shoulder with .002" clearance, and that moves the shoulder back .022". The down side is it also moves the case mouth/throat juncture back .022" so I have to trim my brass it 2.200 instead of the spec 2.222". However I found this is a cool way to dramatically increase brass life and still be able to size the case body a bit, so it enters the chamber effortlessly.

My other dilemma was the question: "What bullet should I use?"

Because these are fully custom rifles with iron sights set to 100, 200, 300 and 400 yards I need to file each sight blade to perfection, and that means I should have an accurate load capable of doing the job on any game that the rifle would be used against so the customer can duplicate that load for the life of the owner.

My 1st choice would be Woodleigh bonded bullets but they are very expensive and I do not trust the availability of them over time, because of the anti-gun politics of Australia and the looming danger of our own government shutting down importation of things "gun-related". So unless I could supply a lifetime's worth of bullets with the gun at the time of the sale (about 2000 bullets for a life time is a good guess, but there is no way I can afford to buy 2000 of them and hope someone will then buy the gun from me later.) I didn't want to zero with them and have an owner later not be able to duplicate that load.

As you all are probably aware I was asking for reports on bullet performance so I could make a decision about what bullet to load and zero with.

Problem solved!
I used .310" groove to groove barrels in this gun instead of .312. So I thought I should just try some 308" bullets and see if the metal flow from lands compressing the copper into the grooves would make a good gas seal and stay concentric. I was hoping for the best... but I knew there was no way to be sure other then to try it.

I loaded 40.3 Gr of IMR4064 with a 180 grain .308 Remington Core-Lokt in WW cases. It goes 2380 FPS. Here is how the first 3 shots printed at 100 yards.
OLYMPUS DIGITAL CAMERA by Steve Zihn, on Flickr

The group was as good as I can shoot with my old eyes, and also about 7" high.
So I lowered the rear sight (flied to the correct height) and made a windage correction. (went a bit too much)

The next 3 shots are the ones in this groups making the triangle farthest to the left.

OLYMPUS DIGITAL CAMERA by Steve Zihn, on Flickr

So I went back just a little bit right, and fired the next 3, one of which hit the spot and 2 are so close I don't think I can correct for it at 100 with open sights. Those 3 are the smallest triangle you see, just slightly to the left, maybe about 1/2" to 5/8" from mean center of group to the center of the spot.

So I think I will go with .308s and zero the 200,300 and 400 yards blades with them.

I modified the dies to have a .307 expander instead of a .310" and it makes the cases hold the .308 bullets perfectly.
In the "180 grain 308" bullet world" there are LOTS of choices from very 'soft' bullets like Sierras BTs to tough deep penetrators like Nosler Partition and various bonded bullets, and I am sure all will be close to the right point of impact if the owners use 40.3GR of 4064.
I think my bullet problem is behind me now.

That's some slick work, my friend.

I'm no judge whatsoever of gnu heads, but that one looks like a real buster to me! Dang.

Poor man's buffalo for certain.

I haven't used the 303 Br for quite a while, so this info may be somewhat dated. My best bullet performance was with the old CIL 180 gr round nose. Seemed to be the right construction for 303 velocities. I had a friend who was the head RCMP armourer and he said the in his opinion most 303 bullets were too hard for the 303 velocities. I was in a coffee shop during deer season and a friend of the fellow i was hunting with came in they had got a fairly large buck, and had shot it with a 303 and 180 gr remington round nose that hadn't opened, (about 100 to 125 yards) he showed it to me. His hunting partner had brought it down with a 270. I don't know what you intend to hunt, but I would look seriously at the 180 gr speer round nose, I know the 150 gr speer always seems to work well.

Shot my second deer with one. It died.

OK, I made a bit more progress on the other gun. This one is made on a Lithgow action from 1941. I don't know if any real "Speeds" were made on SMLEs, so I'll call this a 'Speedish" 303.

I have the wood sealed and ready for final finish. I did the engraving on the magazine and trigger guard. The express sights in made and installed and I used an extremely high front sight and front sight base so I know the rifle will shoot very low. Now I can work up a load that shoot well and then lower the top of the front sight base and maybe change out the sight itself for the final zero. I am wondering if I should use 220 or 180 grain bullets. Maybe I'll split the difference and go with 200 grain spitzers.

After all the metal work is done and the rifle is perfectly zeroed I'll take it all apart one last time and rust blue the steel as I do the final finishing on the wood. Then its time for checkering and after that, the final assembly.

OLYMPUS DIGITAL CAMERA by Steve Zihn, on Flickr

OLYMPUS DIGITAL CAMERA by Steve Zihn, on Flickr

OLYMPUS DIGITAL CAMERA by Steve Zihn, on Flickr

OLYMPUS DIGITAL CAMERA by Steve Zihn, on Flickr

Very nice work...

Thanks WCH.
It's for sale ------------- if you like such classics.

Hey, how's the new 223 barrel working out?

The .223 is excellent.. Only got 500 rds loaded for my trip, but it just drills one hole at 100 yards.. Will have some photos when we get to do some shooting.. Already shot a hundred or so near here.. Great.. Thanks..

That's what i was hoping to hear.

A prairie dog's worst nightmare.

Have enjoyed following rifles progress.

I got the 100 and 200 yard blades zeroed today. Tomorrow I'll do the 300 yard blade and then I am ready for bluing.
So it will start to come together pretty fast now. Stand by.........

Beautiful work

Thanks Jorge.

It will be ready to sell in about 2 weeks if I don't get the checkering done. If I do, then I will have to get it done sometime in the next 4-6 weeks. Too many things on my plate right now to get on it and stay on it. But it's coming along. Some men like them slick, but they look correct when they are checkered .

Got to do more work before I thought.
Just need to get the checkering done on both of them now.

OLYMPUS DIGITAL CAMERA by Steve Zihn, on Flickr

OLYMPUS DIGITAL CAMERA by Steve Zihn, on Flickr

OLYMPUS DIGITAL CAMERA by Steve Zihn, on Flickr

Beautiful rifles!

Thanks PRM

I have three Irish Contract #4's, one 1953 and two 1954. Still in the wrapper. I only shoot one and kept the others in the wrapper. One I fire form the cases I put a penny between the shell holder and the bottom of the die as to short size it. With a load of IMR 4320 and sierra 180 grain bullets it will shoot 1-3/8 inch with many coming in under an inch. Unlike many of the war time rifles these are chambered dead straight. They also seem to lack the slop of a war time production.

Made a deal on the SMLE "Speed".
It's off the market now.

I'm loading the Hornady 174gn RN in my Ruger No.1 .303. I load it to 2450 fps and used the round nose because I'd never loaded a cartridge this slow before. It performs very well at this speed, as I guess it is designed to do. It seems to expand and exit each and every time on pigs and a fallow buck.

Another one ready to make meat.
OLYMPUS DIGITAL CAMERA by Steve Zihn, on Flickr
OLYMPUS DIGITAL CAMERA by Steve Zihn, on Flickr
OLYMPUS DIGITAL CAMERA by Steve Zihn, on Flickr
OLYMPUS DIGITAL CAMERA by Steve Zihn, on Flickr
OLYMPUS DIGITAL CAMERA by Steve Zihn, on Flickr

Great work there. Very inspiring.

Very nice Steve!!!!! Very nice!!!

W O W !!

This is my first time to SEE this thread. Don't know how I missed it. My loss.

I read ALL of it. Thanks for posting the progress. F A N T A S T I C !*!*!*!*

Gorgeous Rifles.

Jerry

Feh...no propre quarter rib AND scratches all over the bottom metal?!?! What kind of sillyness to inflict upon a fine Wisconsin developed rifle as this?!?!

Never even owned a .303!!

Well maybe you need to get one WyoCoyoteHunter.


They are in the same league as many many other shells. All of the following are ballisticly almost exactly the same.
303 Brit
7.7 Jap.
300 Savage
30-40 Krag
7.5 Swiss
7.5 French
307 Winchester
7.65 Belgian.
Or even a carbine length 308 Winchester.
and a few others too.

Very classic set of ballistics that have served hunters (and soldiers) for over 100 years.
Those ballistics work as well today as it ever did.
30-31 cal bullet, 180 grains at 2350 to 2400 FPS.

If you ever shot any game with any of those above you already have a good idea of what to expect.

Cool rifles. I have also never had or hunted with a 303 B. Recently I bought what was supposed to be a m1917 30-06, but it turned out being a P14 303 British. Bought it from a guy on gunbroker, I'll keep an eye on this thread, it seems interesting. However, I don't know if the 303 peaks my interest enough to keep it...

Boy this makes my head hurt trying to remember What Rifle & What year but
Yes I’ve had 1. The closest I can come to the year was probably 1975 (?)
It was a military issue with little sporterizing.

I didn’t keep it long. It had a real headspace problem. It was fine to shoot Factory or ONE handload.
The case would completely separate on the 2nd firing.

That’s my whole history with a 303 B

Jerry

From what I gather, cases don't last long in the 303. At least that's what I was reading somewhere recently..

WOOF!


Thats the nicest one Ive EVER seen!

I'd add the 7x57 Mauser and 8x57 Mauser if you use US factory ammo.


Okie John

Thanks Ingue, That was kind to say.

And I didn't think about the "M89 and M-93 Mauser Loads" offered by the American companies, but you are correct Okie, at least as far as effect. The 175 gr 7X57 and the 170 gr 8X57 are also in that same "ballistic ball-park"

I was weaned on those SMLE's.
Sure cannot get used to an abbreviated magazine. They were designed as a 10 shooter and I could not think of them otherwise.
My Grandfather carried one at Gallipoli in 1915 while in the famed 18th Battalion, so they have a long history.

John

Well, the Speed strikes again. Patterson would be proud.
Not the one in the picture right above, but the one I kept. It drew first blood today. The 1900 Irish Lee. Smallish Whitetail Buck. One shot through the chest that exited the off shoulder. He ran about 20 yards and fell. Shot was about 60 yards.
Load was 40 grains of 4064 in WW brass with a WW primer and a 180 grain Remington .308 Core-Lokt. This rifle has .310" groove diameter and the 180 grain .308s seem to shoot very well.

When I was a boy my dad had a Savage M99 in 300 savage and we sometimes used 180s in it. 180 at 2400 FPS, this load is a .308 180 grain at 2375 from my rifle so I knew exactly how it would act, and it did. Meat for the winter

Well done Steve!!! Congrats!!!