Something that's being left out of this Meplat "discussion" is that you can't compare dead soft pure lead muzzleloader bullets with hard cast cartridge bullets. I'd agree a large meplat creates a larger wound channel with a bullet that doesn't significantly change shape when it strikes tissue, but an extremely malleable pure lead bullet changes nose shape (flattens/expands) the moment it strikes.
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"It's an insecure and petite man who demands all others like what he likes and dislike what he dislikes." szihn
Well, kind of. I did say that with a soft lead bullet you don't need a big meplat for expansion and a large wound channel. But you're right, hard-cast pistol bullets and soft lead conicals are apples and oranges.
No Excuses are pure lead. It'll be the 420 grain one or a patched .535 roundball. Maybe the .535 on my 200" mule deer and the 420 grain no excuses on my raghorn?
Jeremiah Johnson - er I mean Smoke : Ross Seyfried was the 1981 World Practical Pistol Champion in 1981. He was a licensed Professional Hunter in two African countries. He owned Elk Song Ranch in Oregon and guided elk hunters on his property. I suspect he has been involved in more elk kills then even an old sourdough such as yourself. His bona fides (recalling your fondness for Latin nouns) can be found at http://www.classicarmsjournal.com/about/contributors/ Jeremiah Smoke or elk guide? I am still going with the elk guide's bullet recommendation. Since a "bunch of guys" have used the No Excuse bullet, do you know if they are getting complete pass thru? What size wound channel? How much expansion? Do you have the particular issue details of Colorado Outdoors magazine which discusses why Colorado chooses no scopes during muzzleloader only season? Thanks.
LOL, Bob that's great that he's been a PH in Africa and he's a world champion pistol shooter. Was he shooting muzzleloader bullets in Africa with different meplats so he could see if meplats made a difference?
You are free of course to take anyone's advice you want, even if he's never shot an elk with a muzzleloader. But you're not free to give people advice on a public forum without having your advice criticized if it has no solid basis.
I would be more concerned with finding a bullet that shot accurately out of my rifle and would penetrate well rather than it having a large metplat.I bought some No Excuses bullets and some White bullets on the recommendations of folks here on the fire before my trip to Colorado. Neither of them would shoot a decent group out of my T/C Firehawk or Omega. I shot a lot of different bullets and loads getting ready for that huntand it wasn't until about a month before the trip I tried some Maxi-balls and that's what shot the best out of both rifles.
My advice would be to find someone that has the same rifle or at least make of rifle and listen to their advice. I think the OP tuned out when the metplat "discussion" started but that's my opinion FWIW.
... I bought some Power Belts yesterday at a store in NY State, the closest one that sells ammo, and i have some T/C lead bullets on order.
I hunted with a renegade flintlock for 24 years and my wife hunted for a few years with one. I shot maxi-balls, buffalo bullets, and a couple similar types that I don't remember the name. I think they ranged from about 345-385 grains, they all shot excellent. Made a number of kills from 100-125 yds. They had tremendous penetration but no expansion. The renegade with it's short barrel doesn't get a lot of velocity so with heavy solid bullets it doesn't expand. I only recovered one of the heavy bullets and that was on a frontal lengthwise shot. Entered base of neck, travelled across to ribs missing the 1st two but taking a big gap out of every one after that stopping in the front of the rear leg, of course dropped on the spot. That is the one in the pic below with me in the red suit. All the broadside shots had the deer running fair distances with a LOT of blood but basically 50 in and 50 out without a lot of tissue damage. I wanted something with a little more shock. Not sure but around 1990, whenever powerbelts came out, I tried the powerbelt 245HP. Shot very accurate and left a big hole in the deer, not a lot different from a centerfire. Also used the 245AT and 295AT. Both good accuracy and killed well but not as a dramatic of a hole as the 245HP. I would look at the 295 and today I would definitely try the aerolites. Just as a point of reference, I was getting 1475fps with the 295AT and 100gr FF.
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Do you have the particular issue details of Colorado Outdoors magazine which discusses why Colorado chooses no scopes during muzzleloader only season? Thanks.
It was in the 2003 Hunting Guide issue, comes out every year right before hunting season. The title was "Traditional vs Modern Muzzleloaders: Technological Advances, Boon or Bane?" Starts on page 8.
Howdy Guys---- I've just finished reading the discussion here "bout the differences between ML bullets and it seems to me that it is the same one I've heard around campfires every where I've hunted . Penetration vs expansion, pointed vs flat nose when the real question should be, after the shot, "did you eat the elk or watch it run away never to be found"? . Bullet construction is important, but no more important than correctly placing the bullet and only when good bullet placement is not possible ( which is often the case in hunting) does bullet construction become paramount. Given the right circumstances Roy's light and fast bullet will do the same thing that Elmers' slow and heavy one will.------------- I just realized that the real reason discussions like this one happen is 'cause we just enjoy the debate and it gives us something to think about, so never mind what I said and as the Brits say "carry on" Good Hunting Lj
I never shot a elk but saying this u want to see what a 50 or 54 will do with a TC Maxi ball try this I did. Fill up 12 one gal. milk jugs full of water back up 25 yards with your gun loaded up with 90 gr in each gun and a Maxi ball. Both should shoot threw the jugs. Powbults will not only goes threw 9 maybe 10 i tried this
OK, I got Thor bullets to send me a sizing pack. Kind of confused as to what size is correct. Obviously the .500 are too small as I can shake the barrel and get the bullet to fall through. But the .501 through .503 all feel exactly the same while pushing through with my range rod....VERY TIGHT!
