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Originally Posted by The_Real_Hawkeye
This is why teachers with CCWs need to be authorized to carry on the job. Teachers know the kids, have relationships with them, and therefore care about their safety. Resource Officers tend to be aloof with regard to the kids, and don't seem to have attachment to them. They are therefore more likely to think in terms of getting home safely at the end of their shift than protecting the students from a dangerous shooter.



Good post. Two kinds of folks would lay down their lives for those kids. Most teachers and the kids parents. Cops are doing a job. Some would take bullets to slow or stop the guy, but some would hunker and wait for backup.

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Ya know what I always hear on this campfire:

At least at the end of his shift, the cop-security guard-sro... Got to to go home safe to his family.

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I think all too often a LEO for school duty is selected on account of his personality and demeanor, as in friendly and relates well to kids. The kind of man who couldn't bring himself to shoot a kid under any circumstances. A cynical and aloof type wouldn't get the job, but he would be the type who would expect and handle a killer. We had one several years ago that wouldn't wear his sidearm and played basketball will the high school kids.

Last edited by Hastings; 02/23/18. Reason: added a line

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Originally Posted by watch4bear
Whats funny is the number of folks here who would die saving the kids; but yet, are willing to make them wait until they're 21 to own a gun. grin

If that's directed at me, I do have misgivings about young people overall owning AR's at 18 much like I do with them owning crotch rockets or cars with over 300 HP. I bought my own daughter a M&P Compact 45 when she was 20 as she was living in Minneapolis and she was a very responsible person. Many people have mistaken her for being 10 years older than she is. Many kids at 18 to fill in the blank, are not very responsible and probably don't need anything like a firearm to get themselves in trouble. Many are doing just fine in the get in trouble category with booze, pot, and getting to work or school on time. If a parent believes his kids responsible and wants them to have an AR, no problem. I trust the judgement of a parent far more than that of an 18 year old. If the kid is in the military, then I believe he/she has also demonstrated the responsibility to own an AR. To tell the truth, I can't think of anything much more frightening than a dozen or so million 18 year old kids driving around with AR's. Maybe that would be your paradise.


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Originally Posted by Mink
Only a matter of time until this guys conscience gets the better of him and he suck-starts a Glock.


Based on the vast corruption that is quickly being exposed around this incident, any suicide might include multiple shots and, to the back of the his noggin.


Epstein didn't kill himself.

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hen Coral Springs police officers arrived at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School in Parkland, Florida, on February 14 in the midst of the school shooting crisis, many officers were surprised to find not only that Broward County Sheriff's Deputy Scot Peterson, the armed school resource officer, had not entered the building, but that three other Broward County Sheriff's deputies were also outside the school and had not entered, Coral Springs sources tell CNN. The deputies had their pistols drawn and were behind their vehicles, the sources said, and not one of them had gone into the school.
With direction from the Broward deputies who were outside, Coral Springs police soon entered the building where the shooter was. New Broward County Sheriff's deputies arrived on the scene, and two of those deputies and an officer from Sunrise, Florida, joined the Coral Springs police as they went into the building.
Some Coral Springs police were stunned and upset that the four original Broward County Sheriff's deputies who were first on the scene did not appear to join them as they entered the school, Coral Springs sources tell CNN. It's unclear whether the shooter was still in the building when they arrived.


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Here's a link to a local news media account. Shows a lot about who Scot Peterson really is.

Reportedly, he's a decorated veteran LEO officer who's been a SRO for many years.

This guy would be the prototype poster boy for a politically correct LEO, all 6' 5" of him.

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/local/b...ooting-scot-peterson-20180223-story.html

Check it out. Texicans would say, "All hat, no cows".

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Heroic teacher inside the building while armed cops stay outside.

We’ve seen this movie more than once.

It will be easier to arm the teacher than to get the cops to go inside.


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Now we see that the cops, Palm Beach and Broward County SO, are on THEIR side, the ranks close up in protection of their own scumbag badged MFker:

https://market-ticker.org/akcs-www?post=233034

We Only Have One Cop....... for your school but we have six armed officers who will guard a coward's house 24x7 so he doesn't have to answer questions from the media:

We sent @BrianEntin to BSO Deputy Scot Peterson’s Boynton Beach home to try and talk to him about his resignation today. Were met by 6 @PBCountySheriff deputies standing guard outside his home. They prevented us from approaching the house. pic.twitter.com/1QPlmeHtqb

So, students and parents at Parkland, along with anyone else, let's see if I get this right.

This specific officer knew about Cruz's intentions as he was alerted about a prior call to the Sheriff's Office stating that Cruz intended to shoot up a school -- in 2016. He did nothing.

When Cruz did shoot up the school said officer cowered outside, despite being armed and able to offer effective resistance to the attack. He sat outside hiding for four minutes while Cruz slaughtered the kids inside, hearing not only the gunshots but, I'm sure, the screams.

When suspended he retired and is going to be allowed to draw his pension instead of being criminally charged and forfeiting his pension and retirement benefits, despite the proximate cause of his "retirement" being an attempt to evade an investigation of his conduct.

And now, having done all this, the Palm Beach Sheriff's Office (and the Broward Sheriff's Office) can find only one cop with a gun for a school but six cops with guns to stand guard over this assclown's house and barricade it against anyone approaching it or him.

Oh, and not barricade it just against people with weapons who intend to do him harm either -- they have also barricaded it against a news crew armed only with cameras so this ******* doesn't have to actually face the public about his outrageous conduct.

This is no longer about just Broward County's sheriff office -- it now extends to Palm Beach as well as they have willfully and intentionally joined the cowards and intentional misconduct of both the FBI and Broward County.

Tell me, parents and students, when you're going to recognize that those 17 people are dead because of direct, intentional malfeasance and willful misconduct by the police.

And finally, next question: Are you going to obey any "gun law", now or ever in the future, when it's clear that the only person who will protect you and your children is..... you?


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Just thinking, if that Cruz kid had been rushed by an aggressive LEO, emptying a Glock as he ran toward him, the kid would not have been able to return fire. Especially if the attack was started as he was swapping mags. And, if a few of those rounds struck home. None of this drop your gun stuff, just a vicious, relentless assault.

May not be P.C., bet it would have worked. Not sure about rules of engagement, but once this little perp opened fire, IMO, he became a target of opportunity.

I'd like to hear LEO opinions on this tactic.

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It is Columbine/Colorado all over again - chickenschitt cops......"FTP!!" is all I've got to say, it's time to revoke "qualified immunity" and hang every cop and sheriff's deputy who fails in the slightest, they've earned my eternal wrath for their worthlessness:

http://dailycaller.com/2018/02/23/four-deputies-waited-outside-stoneman-douglas/

Sheriff Scott Israel revealed on Thursday that the school resource officer on duty, Deputy Scot Peterson, “never went in” the school even though it was “clear” there was a shooting going on, but CNN’s new reporting reveals there were three other deputies who reported to the scene shortly thereafter also failed to enter the school and attempt to engage Cruz.

The report states that when Coral Springs police officers arrived on the scene, the four deputies were crouched behind their vehicles with their guns drawn and had not yet entered the school.

With some direction from the deputies, the Coral Springs officers entered the school. A new group of Broward County deputies also arrived, and two of them joined the Coral Springs officers in the school, along with an officer from Sunrise, Florida.

The Coral Springs officers claim that the four original deputies never followed them into the school. CNN’s sources said the officers were upset and stunned at the inaction by the deputies.


"To compel a man to furnish funds for the propagation of ideas he disbelieves and abhors is sinful and tyrannical." -- Thomas Jefferson

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Originally Posted by Dirtfarmer
Just thinking, if that Cruz kid had been rushed by an aggressive LEO, emptying a Glock as he ran toward him, the kid would not have been able to return fire. Especially if the attack was started as he was swapping mags. And, if a few of those rounds struck home. None of this drop your gun stuff, just a vicious, relentless assault.

May not be P.C., bet it would have worked. Not sure about rules of engagement, but once this little perp opened fire, IMO, he became a target of opportunity.

I'd like to hear LEO opinions on this tactic.

DF



Having a tactical advance and aimed fire is way more productive than charging and spray and pray shooting in a general direction.


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In my department, we have trained for this often, during times when the schools are unoccupied. The message is very clear...go to the sound of the gunfire as fast as possible and eliminate the threat. Don't wait! Time is critical. I'm appalled by what happened in Florida. It would be much easier to give my life in defense of those kids, than to look at myself in the mirror and know that I failed those who counted on me.


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Hired in 1985, became SRO in 1991. That's only 6 years on the street. It is very possible his mettle was never tested.


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Originally Posted by Bobmar
In my department, we have trained for this often, during times when the schools are unoccupied. The message is very clear...go to the sound of the gunfire as fast as possible and eliminate the threat. Don't wait! Time is critical. I'm appalled by what happened in Florida. It would be much easier to give my life in defense of those kids, than to look at myself in the mirror and know that I failed those who counted on me.



Reminds me of the street cops that took out the UT Sniper, Charles Whitman.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...-charles-whitman/?utm_term=.3d0941ee5452

Quote
Houston McCoy grew up in West Texas. Men don’t brag much there. Or cry.

But there he was, his life winding down, with tears in his eyes.

It was 2008. McCoy, one of the Austin police officers who killed University of Texas Tower sniper Charles Whitman on Aug. 1 1966, was being interviewed on video by Mary Ellen O’Toole, an FBI agent who specialized in school shootings.

McCoy went through life not talking much about the day Whitman killed 17 people and wounded more than 30. Now he was telling the whole story.

What training did he have to take down a mass shooter?

“The training was, you’re a policeman,” McCoy says, in a raspy twang. “You’re required to enforce all federal and state laws and city ordinances and keep the peace and that was our sworn oath.”

He pauses.

“But no, we didn’t have any training for anything like that. Nobody had even thought about anything like that ever happening.” He was 26 — one year older than the gunman.

When he went out on the observation deck to confront Whitman, was he wearing a bulletproof vest?

“No,” he says. “I’d never heard of one.”

Was there a plan?

“There was no plan,” he says.


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Originally Posted by rockinbbar
Originally Posted by Dirtfarmer
Just thinking, if that Cruz kid had been rushed by an aggressive LEO, emptying a Glock as he ran toward him, the kid would not have been able to return fire. Especially if the attack was started as he was swapping mags. And, if a few of those rounds struck home. None of this drop your gun stuff, just a vicious, relentless assault.

May not be P.C., bet it would have worked. Not sure about rules of engagement, but once this little perp opened fire, IMO, he became a target of opportunity.

I'd like to hear LEO opinions on this tactic.

DF



Having a tactical advance and aimed fire is way more productive than charging and spray and pray shooting in a general direction.

Not a LEO, just thinking out loud.

Tactical advance takes time to organize. Shooting was over in a very few minutes.

Less organized, faster assault on perp may cut short the critical killing time.

Seems responses need to be faster, even at the cost of tactical perfection.

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Dirtfarmer,

Tactical advantage may also mean moving rapidly while using cover/concealment until you find the shooter. Tactics after that are subject to change without notice. I'm all for putting lead downrange, even more in favor of that lead being on target, not in the general vicinity.

Ed


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Originally Posted by Dirtfarmer
Just thinking, if that Cruz kid had been rushed by an aggressive LEO, emptying a Glock as he ran toward him, the kid would not have been able to return fire. Especially if the attack was started as he was swapping mags. And, if a few of those rounds struck home. None of this drop your gun stuff, just a vicious, relentless assault.

May not be P.C., bet it would have worked. Not sure about rules of engagement, but once this little perp opened fire, IMO, he became a target of opportunity.

I'd like to hear LEO opinions on this tactic.

DF

If he's already shot people, and it's still in the heat of the situation, there's no command to drop the gun that's called for. If he has it in hand, he's a target to be shot as soon as you can get sights on him.

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It doesn’t take training to know what to do here. You can contrast the actions of those four chickenschits with the guy in Texas who RAN TOWARDS the church shooter while he was stuffing shells in his magazine.

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If the coach had sheriff Israel's deputy's gun the outcome would have, IMO been far different.


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