Home Forums Lever Action Central Big Bore Levers Premium bullets for the 405 Winchester.

First of all...an enormous shout out to our own JorgeI who gifted me some beautiful 405 bullets from Barnes and North Fork for testing. Almost too beautiful to shoot. Took them out to the range today and managed to capture the NF 300 soft point and Barnes TSX bullet as well as my own supply of Woodleighs. As far as I know the NF solid is still going after exiting 27" of test media, and blowing out the end of my test bin. The solid also put on some pretty good destruction throughout it's travel. maybe the blunt FP has some knock down-trauma effect. I also switched to N-133 powder and it has some promise. Low pressure and moderate speeds gives me some room to add a bit more horsepower in future.

I think buying some .405 Winchester, Barnes TSX bullets is in my future.

https://youtu.be/56bwDo62yv0

Glad to see the word on N133 is getting around. Did Jorge also send you a copy of the NF loading tips?

For the 1895 .405 WCF:

I have loaded and shot targets and big game with NF FPS, CPS, and their SS bonded soft point. All loads with N133 were at 2250 fps MV and accurate.

I bought some .405 loads with Barnes TSX at 2200 and they too shoot and kill well.

Naturally, I have also loaded and hunted with Hornady and Woodleigh bullets.

For the 1886 .45-90:-I have also done the above with NF .458 FPS 450 grain at 2150 fps.

Sorry, but I have no penetration tests with non-game media to share, but they all perform well on big game. I look forward to reading your test results

405 Winchester Results

Test media..4 Liter Milk Jug (6 inches)
11 inches of hard packed soaked writing paper (Very dense much more so than newsprint
10 inches of Catalogues (Dry)

This is a very tough media. Tends to shed the cores of cup and core bullets

300 Grain TSX Bullet
Velocity 2189 Ft Sec
13" Total Penetration
299.9 Retained Weight
.795x.685 Expansion
1.55 inch group 75 Yards
.4598 Base Expansion (Near Max in my gun)
3.2 OAL Length
52.0 V N133 (Careful work up or down from this load)

300 Grain North Fork SP
Velocity 2121 Ft/Sec
12" Total Penetration
299.2 grain Retained Weight
.77x.723 Expansion
1.66 inch group 75 yards
.4596 Base Expansion (Moderate in my rifle)
3.204 OAL
52.0 N133 (Careful..work up or down from this load)

300 grain Woodleigh
Velocity 2159ft/sec
12" total penetration
298.5 grain retained weight
.765x.730 Expansion
1.33 inch group at 75 yards
.4594 Base Expansion (Moderate in my rifle)
3.152 OAL
52.0 N133 (Careful..work up or down from this load)

300 NorthFork Solid
27" and exits box, surprisingly good first half wound channel but of course less than the expanding bullets, closes in 2nd half to just over bullet diameter.
No bullet recovery
4.1" group 75 yards (Yuchh!)
.4592 expansion (Mild)
3.170 OAL
50.0 V N133 (Careful)

Any-one know if there is a new set of procedures for Hunt 101? Cant seem to load new pictures there anymore?

Interesting.

I used 53.2 grains on all three types of NF 300 grain bullets and they all ran 2250 fps from my 1895 on my Chrony.
For the M95 .405 Wcf, these are my favorite 300 grain bullets for SERIOUS game. I do not waste them on hogs, deer and such. Later, I will dig up some pix of BIG game taken with them and share them.

BTW,
Was the Woodie that you used in the test their Weldcore RN SN? That is the hardest SN that I have ever used. The 400 grain .411 RN SN penetrated all the way from the rear rib out between the front legs of the Cape Buffalo I shot in RSA. It passed through the heart on its journey. Fun stuff, eh?

Yes that was the 300 grain Weldcore. Ironically here in Canada it is easier to get Woodleigh bullets in odd calibers than the North-Forks or even Barnes. You can find the more common calibers in North Forks or Barnes but specialty calibers require a special order and sometimes extra cost. I would say that 53.2 grains of N133 would likely get me to velocities in the range you are suggesting. Loads I used where a bit mild except for the X bullet which was closing in on Factory Normal.

I am thinking of sizing down some of the 5000 .416 Woodliegh 410 grain soft nose bullets to .411 and some Speer 350 grain mag tips to .411 .I have a ton them both .I.Think the 410 grain would be awesome in the 405 to 100 yards .I have shot a bunch of 41 mag bullets and 300grain hornady but not loaded the Barnes 300 grain.txs even though I.have a bunch of those .I am looking.for a 405 encore barrel that can handle more pressure than the 1895 405 cab or a Ruger number 1 that I wish they would Make in a rsi model that would be cool !

So no love for the NF 360 Gr? I used this on a black bear hunt and it was a hammer.

probably a great bullet but hard to get ahold of up here.

North,
Please check your PM for information on N133 pressure data.

Done!

Hi guys. A couple of observations and thoughts. In both my Miroku 405, accuracy is superb with 51.5gr of N-133, F-210 (match) primers and the NF solids. My friend FlyBoy Flem here also reported great accuracy with this load, with velocity around the 2250 mark. With the NF softs, TSXs and Woodleighs I use 52gr to attain 2250 fps and also great accuracy. If I had to stick with one bullet, I'd opt for the TSX, Very accurate, great penetration and it was designed for the 405. I also use a Lee factory crimp die i had made. Cr, I'd like to see that N133 pressure data as well as NF loading tips. Incidentally, it was you CR that turned me onto N-133 and it is also the cleanest powder I've ever used!

Thanks for posting this North61, I was thinking about ordering the Barnes and Woodleigh's later this week, glad to see they preformed well in the media. Like the way that Woodleigh mushroomed!

I totally agree with jorge on the TSX although the NF solids grouped the best of the three I load tested [ NF,Woodleigh & TSX ] the TSX was second overall but the price per shot vs the others was certainly a no brainer IMO.

In addition I'm glad to see the 405 making a comeback it certainly deserves more attention especially with modern powders and bullets...Ole Teddy would be proud !

Jorge ,
OK, I will scan Tech Notes and will email them to you along with the .405 pressure curves. Look closely and you will be able to determine the pressure reduction due to N133 and that due to the extended chamber(something not needed on my .405 double as those chambers are plenty long now for the 400 grain Woodies and they do shoot well. I am up to 2040 fps now with N133 and will shoot a regulation target when the weather improves.

PS - based upon info from NF and my own experience, I no longer even try to crimp the NF bullets.

Thanks very much. I just crimp out of habit and I have fond it does help a bit with accuracy.

Jorge
I seem to have lost your email, so can you send it in a PM?
I will then email to you the above requested information.

The Woodleighs really are a nice bullet. When it warms up I am going to try some low speed expansion tests as well.

Classic 35,
Getting back to the NF360 grain .405 bullet you mentioned.

the only reason that I have not tried it is that I had already gone with the 400 grain Woodies before learning about the 360 grain NF.

So, will you share with me your loading experience with this bullet(s) ? Was it the FPS, CPS, or SS?
Powder charge, velocities, primers, and maybe a picture of the bear that it hammered?
I am planning a black bear hunt in Canada soon and might want to load some NF 360 for the hunt.

Thank you for any information you can share.

Testing New Photo-Server. Hunt 101 has not allowed me to post new pictures for 6 weeks now after 12+ years of use?

Those Bullets look great N61. Ain’t a bad one in the bunch.

"Ain’t a bad one in the bunch."

+1

What is great is that this was really tough media. The wet paper was printing paper which is tougher than newsprint and intermixed was layers of hard catologues. This is hard on bullets and often strips cores if the bullet has a weakness.

The combination of great bullet construction and moderate velocities really promotes excellent penetration and retained weight. The X bullet and NorthFork have the further advantage of a decent B.C. which means it will hold onto speed longer.

The 405 never had it so good. In olden days the way to ensure penetration was to increase sectional density. Bullet construction can do the same thing and this is a pretty great caliber.

True for the big and biggest game, PLUS, you can always load 210 grainers for varmints and prairie dogs.

CRS,

I am loading the 360 GR SS and my Win 405 has had some throat work so I could load the 400 Woodie. I originally started with the Montana Bullet .416 350 gr cast sized to .412 and was loading Benchmark, H4895 and Varget using LR PRIMER. I don't have access to my load data but if memory serves me I am getting around 2150 with the 350 gr bullet, and little over 2100 with the NF.

Once I get my loading room moved I will get the data , and pic then share it with you in a PM.

Thank you Classic35, I look forward to anything else you may add.

As you may know, I obtained just under 2100 fps (2076) with 400 grain Woodies in my 1895 in .405 at 48000 psi using TAC. That made a great cape buffalo round.

I am now sneaking up on that 400 grain velocity with N133 to keep the pressure down to 40,000 psi or less for my .405 double.

I like the woodies and the NF, so I may flip a coin or load a few of both.

BTW, how did your 400 grain Woodie loads work out?

say North, maybe you'll be able to pack enough medium to stop that NF solid! i was disappointed you did not have good accuracy with them though, as for me and my friend Flem, they proved to be most accurate, but we loaded them to 2250 fps. Overall, the tsxs are in my view the best of the bunch, especially when factoring in cost. Cheers, J.

CRS,

I could not get the Woodies above 2000 using H4895, this spring I am going to work on using different powders. Maybe I will try TAC.

I am moving my reloading room so I do not have access to the data right now. I will send you a PM with the 360 gr load and the bear from 2 years ago.

35

35,
My TAC load that reached 2076 psi MV with 400 grain Woodies generated 48,000 psi WITH the extended chamber. The same load would likely have been over 50,000 psi in the factory chamber. It is also likely that the game would not know the difference between 2000 and 2076 fps.

There that should be sorted now.

With the 300gr TSX and the NF solids, I think that's all you need for just about anything out there!

This thread's about premium bullets for the 405 but I shoot lots of cast in my big bores with excellent results often times out performing the premiums. Recently had this custom mold cut for the 405 which drops a heavy at 415 grs and should be an outstanding penetrator cast hard then water quenched. It carries a gas check for higher velocity applications and seems to stabilize well for its long bearing surface but as in the BPCR world big heavy cast bullets at high velocity aren't necessarily your huckleberry..When our weather settles down and I can get to the range I'll do penetration tests of this bullet against the other three premiums we've been discussing,, chrono velocities with each and post the results later.

Oh yeah! Are those the ones you sent me or one of your newer creations?

No same ones I sent you...I'm about out of "newer creations" and have more than a few presently to keep me busy for awhile. .Saved a few that you sent just for the penetration test but think it will boil down to my cast vs the NF solid IMO..although the TSX may be a dark horse.

For penetration, my money is on the NF solid. For hunting, the TSX all theway

North, now you need to try out those NF solids on one of these!

"North, now you need to try out those NF solids on one of these! "

Don't we all!

Does anyone have a reference on the Woodleigh .411 solid on a frontal brain shot on an ele?
I know the .458 NF and Punch bullets shoot right through and into the body, so the .411 should also.

A punch in .411 would be oh so much fun in a .405 WCF. It uses much less powder space than the NF and penetrates just as well. It was the only .458 test bullet that our .45-70 pushed THROUGH our swinging 5/8 inch steel body shaped target at 50 yards. A very impressive hole it made also.

That same target made pretty jewelry of the 300 grain NF SS bullets I shot at it just for the chrony readings.

Tag

Man....what a great photograph! I thought Moose were big.

CR: If you watch North's penetration tests, it will give you an idea of the penetration of the NF flat nose solid. TR also used it ( 1900s era solid of course) on elephant and rhino.

Jorge,
I did watch the video. I have been convinced of the penetration of the NF FPS since first using all the NF bullets some while back.

However, thank you for reminding me that I told North I would post a pic of some really big game taken with the NF solid(s) , FPS and CPS.

First this link to the NF web site for a story and pix of the Asian water buff taken with CPS:
http://www.northforkbullets.com/magento/blog/?p=204

Second this pic of an ele taken with frontal brain shot from .45-90 :


The ABW 450 grain FMJ Fp at 2150 dropped the ele to its knees, but the back legs did not kick out. A
follow up shot with 450 grain NF FPS shot through the head and into the body. So did the 430 grain Punch bullet!