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Great news. I have a Marlin 1895 SBL 45/70 so maybe I can just use it with shortened cases? However it seems to me that since the 45/70 is a tapered case when it is shortened the inside neck diameter would be too large to properly hold a 0.458" bullet.

Tmitch, please enlighten me. Are you simply firing these shortened cases in your standard 45/70? If so does it feed ok? What bullets are you using? What reloading dies are you using?

Can you provide any load data with velocity?

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I use them in my Ruger No. 1 .45-70. I use standard RCBS dies & seat bullets out to same OAL as 400 gr. factory load. I've used 400 gr & 350 gr Speer bullets. Seating the bullets out you have virtually the same powder capacity so I would think any book charges could be used. For my purposes, deer at 100 yds max, I don't have need to hot rod it so I use a mid range charge of 3130. Using it in a single shot I don't worry about a crimp, so not sure how well they'd hold up in a tube magazine. Being the same OAL they should feed okay.


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Thanks tmitch
Good,I didn't cut down 40 good cases for nothing.

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I did the same thing when planning a hunt in Indiana by contacting the DNR and printing out the email response approving the reloaded cartridge as compliant.
John


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For Michigan, "straight walled" is the key. You can't have a belted cartridge.

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Originally Posted by Tackdriver22250
For Michigan, "straight walled" is the key. You can't have a belted cartridge.



The case walls are straight and the belt only serves the same purpose as a rim, which is to head space the cartridge,

Last edited by jwp475; 12/23/17.


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We asked the question to the Michigan DNR about cutting down the 458 WM case down to 1.8 inches.
Their response was--
Yes,as long as you get the case down to the lawful limit,that would be permitted.

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Knew a guy that hunted with an XP 100 back in the 80's chambered in 458 X 1.5". It was a sledgehammer for the application he deployed it.

Can't help but wonder why not hunt with a 480 Ruger ?


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500 JRH or 475 Linebaugh in a rifle will produce about 1700 FPS with 425 grain hard cast bullet even faster with a lighter bullet. They are 1.4” cases or the 1.6” cases could be used, which in the case of the 50 cal would be the 500 S&W.



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Originally Posted by jwp475

500 JRH or 475 Linebaugh in a rifle will produce about 1700 FPS with 425 grain hard cast bullet even faster with a lighter bullet. They are 1.4” cases or the 1.6” cases could be used, which in the case of the 50 cal would be the 500 S&W.


Seems like an easy fix if you are buying a new gun anyway.


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Originally Posted by Tackdriver22250
For Michigan, "straight walled" is the key. You can't have a belted cartridge.


Well then you can't have a rim either...or a 450 Bushmaster its rebated....

All DNR cares about is 1.8" and minimum 35 caliber...

I'am having reamers being made for a (10 mm) .400" in a 240 Weatherby cut to 1.8".....Cutting Edge Bullets 165 gr. Maximus around 2500 fps....

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Originally Posted by coyotewacker
[quote=Tackdriver22250]

I'am having reamers being made for a (10 mm) .400" in a 240 Weatherby cut to 1.8".....Cutting Edge Bullets 165 gr. Maximus around 2500 fps....

10mm Maximum that sounds like a good way to go.
Would like to here how that turns out.
Got my 458x1.8 tuned in.
57Gr of RL-7
OAL 2.80
350 Gr Barnes TSX FB
Shot two over the Chrony 2097 and 2096
Sighted at 150 yds
2" high at 100yds with a 7/8' group
2" low at 175 Yds with a 1 3/4 " group
4 1/2" low at 200 yds with a 3"group
Groups were only 2 shot.
Son in Law is going to use it for late doe season.

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Originally Posted by Roc
Originally Posted by coyotewacker
[quote=Tackdriver22250]

I'am having reamers being made for a (10 mm) .400" in a 240 Weatherby cut to 1.8".....Cutting Edge Bullets 165 gr. Maximus around 2500 fps....

10mm Maximum that sounds like a good way to go.
Would like to here how that turns out.
Got my 458x1.8 tuned in.
57Gr of RL-7
OAL 2.80
350 Gr Barnes TSX FB
Shot two over the Chrony 2097 and 2096
Sighted at 150 yds
2" high at 100yds with a 7/8' group
2" low at 175 Yds with a 1 3/4 " group
4 1/2" low at 200 yds with a 3"group
Groups were only 2 shot.
Son in Law is going to use it for late doe season.


I like your 458x1.8" was going to build one....its smart design for a straight wall cartridge using belt for head spacing.....

You should try some Cutting Edge Bullets .458 258 GR.SOCOM Brass Flat Base Raptor...they are deadly will shoot flatter and little less recoil they been used on a bunch of North American game and African up to cape buffalo ...Lil'Gun powder first choice second choice Enforcer should be a good powders close to a full case don't compress powder... seat bullet with two bands in case to get more capacity....should get close to 2400 fps....

https://cuttingedgebullets.com/452-258gr-flat-base-raptor

Also a great bullet Cutting Edge Bullets. 458 260gr Rifle Maximus

https://cuttingedgebullets.com/458-260gr-rifle-maximus-50ct

I shoot these for practice and plinking will shoot to the same point as the CEB 458 258 GR. SOCOM....Hornady 45 Cal .458 250 gr MonoFlex®...

https://www.hornady.com/bullets/rifle/45-cal-458-250-gr-monoflex#!/

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[quote=

You should try some Cutting Edge Bullets .458 258 GR.SOCOM Brass Flat Base Raptor...they are deadly will shoot flatter and little less recoil they been used on a bunch of North American game and African up to cape buffalo ...Lil'Gun powder first choice second choice Enforcer should be a good powders close to a full case don't compress powder... seat bullet with two bands in case to get more capacity....should get close to 2400 fps....

https://cuttingedgebullets.com/452-258gr-flat-base-raptor

Also a great bullet Cutting Edge Bullets. 458 260gr Rifle Maximus

https://cuttingedgebullets.com/458-260gr-rifle-maximus-50ct

[/quote]
Might give those a try.Looks like they would turn that into a 275 yd gun.

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I wanted to share here my efforts to use my 45/70 here in SW Michigan. As most of you probably know here in my part of MI if we want to use a "modern" firearm as opposed to shotgun or muzzle loader we are limited to using straight walled cases that are no longer than 1.8". I thought that ruled out my 45/70 which has a case length of 2.105" but found out that if I trim the cases back to 1.8" then I can use it. I was stoked to learn this.

I decided to initially see if I could get a suitable load developed using the Missouri Cast Bullets 405 grain coated bullet. Before moving to Michigan I had worked up several great loads with various bullets one of which was the Missouri coated cast 405 grain bullet using a full length case and 43 grains of H4198 and a CCI 200 primer which gave me 1600 fps. If I tried to get much over that velocity I would get terrible accuracy due to terrible leading. The coating they use apparently is not adequate for higher velocities.

With these shortened cases I figured I could load the bullet out long (that is not seat the bullet to the crimp groove but rather seat it to the grease groove closest to the crimp groove) which should reduce pressures somewhat. I had to buy a custom Lee Factory Crimp Die and have my sizing die shortened. Even though I loaded the bullet to crimp over what would normally be a grease groove instead of to the crimp groove I figured I would likely still need to reduce the powder charge. The loaded cartridge length is now 2.5" instead of 2.52" when loaded in a full length case to the crimp groove.

Initially with these shortened cases I tried 40 grains and then 38 grains and finally 37.3 grains. I think the 37.3 grain load will likely be the one I settle on. Velocity averaged 1480 fps.

I need to do a bit more shooting but so far it looks quite promising. Shooting from a standing position I had a sandbag placed on my fence rail to support the fore end and my shooting sticks supporting the buttstock and fired a 3 shot group at 55 yards. The group was horizontal with all bullets touching and measured 0.6" center to center. I think the deer are in trouble!

The gun is a Marlin 1895 SBL and I have a Leupold Vari X 2 2-7 scope with additional dots below the crosshair for further distance aim points. If zeroed at 100 yards I should be on at 125, 150 and 175 with the other aim points.

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Have you tried anything lighter than 400gr.?
300gr at 1600 fps. would work just fine even on the biggest bucks.
Rock on, but extra recoil stopped being fun a few years ago.
Don't get me wrong, I applaud you for your workaround to maintain legal and use a firearm you already owned.
I would have done this if I had a 45-70.

Since I didn't, the Ruger American Ranch in 450 Bushmaster was a cheap price for a rifle legal in the Zone I have hunting property.


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I had been shooting 405 grain bullets at 1900 fps so 1480 is a breeze. I know that I don't even need this heavy of a load for deer as I blew clear through a doe last fall with my Ruger 45 Colt revolver using a 290 grain Keith bullet at about 1100 fps, breaking a front leg bone in the process. Even so the accuracy is good and at that velocity when zeroed at 100 yards I should be on with my extra aim points on my scope at 125, 150 and 175 yards.

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I'd just run a 45 MZ with a long tube and use a dead center? 357 in a sabot... its easily good to 300 yards in a good gun. I don't see the short 458 being good that far...


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I had one of these 458x1.8 put together from parts i scrounged up. 325 Hornady Lipstick over 47 grains of Imr 4198 25 inch Shilen gave me 2120fps

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For all folks wanting an easy way out and planning on using a rifle/handgun for several years on deer I suggest a good 44 mag rifle 270 grain load. Easily will dispatch deer at similar ranges as 458 x 1.5 Frank Barnes. For those wanting to step it up and pretty much match 458 x 1.5 Frank Barnes power at similar range and have TC Encores and even Contenders can get barrel and load 275 Barnes bullets in the 475 Linebaugh. Out of an Encore 18"-20" your pushing 2,100 fps. Using 400 grain loads in a rifle you get around 1,650 fps. Both the Ruger No.1 and Big Horn Armory Model 89A lever-action rifle come in the 475 Linebaugh. Both are pricey, but if your dug into hunting that area for years, this is a heavy hitter setup that will easily get the job done. Linebaugh has a 1.6" case. Personally I think all these eastern dumb [bleep] game/committees that come up with this crap need to be tossed. What would be the difference in hunting straight wall 45-70, 444 Marlin, 450 Marlin, etc., in both range and penetration than the above Linebaugh loads or a 454 Casull in the woods of Michigan. For all intense purposes their allowing a handgun cartridge thinking its about 50 yards of effectiveness when in actuality out of a rifle its an easy 125 yards. Stupid stuff and a great deal of hoop jumping for nothing in return of any beneficial safety accomplishment. When hunting you can't fix stupid, you hope the responsibility of discharging a firearm is in the hands of a responsible person.

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