Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Alaska My partner's sheep ruled illegal. Your opinion?

I would like to get other's opinion on a hunt and the actions I should or should not be taking. I'm going to try and keep this anonymous because I am not looking to badmouth any outfitter or guide. I am only asking for the opinion of more experienced guides/hunters on how this situation should be handled and see if perhaps I am looking at it wrong. August 2017 I went on a sheep hunt with a lifelong friend of mine. The hunt was paid for by me as a wedding gift to my friend. Long story short we both killed sheep but weeks later we were informed that my friend's sheep was not a legal ram due to being 7 years old. Mine was legal. I will say that at the conclusion of my hunt we were both satisfied, gave a good tip, etc. After tagging out there seemed to be no doubts at the whether or not the sheep was legal. Camp attitudes seemed happy all round. I mention that because after the fact, the outfitter seemed to indicate to the trooper that he had his doubts once he saw the horns in camp. That rubbed me the wrong way. Anyway, the outfitter's initial plan was to see if he could buy the horns back in an auction so that we could get them. I see his point there because we paid for a sheep hunt, went on one, shot one, and could have the horns if they came to auction. From my viewpoint- I paid to have a guide because I am not a resident and it is the law and its also the law to shoot a legal ram. Which is not what happened. In NO way at any point did I or my hunting partner pressure a shot or express dissatisfaction with any aspect of the hunt. We are great guys to have in camp and we do what we are told so it isn't like the guide was getting direct pressure to make a quick call as to shoot or not. In fact, the ram in question was located on the first day, looked at for a long time by another guide who couldn't say with certainty he was a shooter then that same guide was with me a few days later when we glassed them for about an hour and even though the younger ram was the bigger I told the guide that I wanted to kill the oldest of the two and so I shot my ram. Two days later my partner was with the his guide and was given the green light to shoot. At first we were told things, "Would be made right." The outfitter's idea of that seemed to be getting us the horns by buying them at auction and then getting another cape since that one was confiscated. Honestly that left a bitter taste in our mouth. I feel like I paid for once was truly a once in a lifetime hunt for my friend and yea, it's about the experience, but I paid for a chance at a legal ram and that isn't what was delivered. It was not the last day of the hunt so he still could have located another ram and had an opportunity. Regardless, we agreed to wait for months until this auction would happen. Well it just came and went and the horns were not there. Then we were told that another auction will be occurring soon and to wait on it. That's really stretching my patience as we are now 6 months in and no resolution but I am trying to give every benefit of the doubt and be agreeable. Just today my partner was sent a text by the guide saying that the horns will not be in the upcoming auction. Here is my question. Is it reasonable to ask for a refund or partial refund at this point? I feel like it is. I understand the outfitter has the same cost whether we see nothing and hunt hard for 10 days or if I killed a world record. That's part of hunting. This was not a trophy area but it was real wilderness and tough hunting. That part I am satisfied with but that fact remains that is the guides responsibility to make the call to shoot. I respect his authority in that role and I feel like in this scenario we did not get what we paid for. I don't expect a full refund because I am not looking to hurt the outfitter financially but I feel my gift to my friend was tarnished along with the memory of the hunt and to me getting half the cost of the hunt back would seem fair. Obviously my partner would not have tipped the guide who told him to shoot an illegal ram so that is another expense that I am not asking for that was part of the overall cost not to mention travel, time off work, etc. There were other minor problems with the guide but I am not picky or one to complain. Again, I am not typing this to whine. I want your thoughts as to whether or not I am out of line to ask the outfitter for a 50% refund. Not of both hunts but just my partners.

Thanks for reading a long post.

That's a bad deal, IMO. I don't think you are out of line for asking for a partial refund.

There something like 3 tests that ADF&G uses to determine full curl. I think you're saying that the ram didn't pass any of these tests, but would have been legal it was 7.5 yrs old.

It would suck to not have been present when ADF&G actually inspected/measured the ram. At a minimum, I'd want him to cover the fine.

The tickets that come with under-age/size sheep kills are not free. Who paid those?

I see no problem with asking for ALL your money back for your friend. The guide has consequences atop yours and his was probably spendy.

Judging sheep for age as a test of legal status is ridiculous and it sounds like the guide does this routinely.

Do you have pictures of the sheep you can post?

It is technically against the law to purchase trophies at the auctions from critters you had confiscated from you. It is illegal for you to possess a trophy you took illegally.

Lots of those get used in various ways by ADF&G, like displays to help people understand how to judge a legal sheep, head mounts for schools, and such. I cleaned one up after splitting for the Anchorage office to show what the annuli look like inside the horn.

This is a link to the best piece they put out on judging sheep after the fact...
https://www.adfg.alaska.gov/static/...eep_horns_under_full_curl_regulation.pdf

Ever heard of a paragraph?

Also you can go to this link for information about what the guide was charged with and how much he had to pay. If you find he has a history of this sort of thing you will have much better standing...

https://records.courts.alaska.gov/eaccess/search.page.3.1?x=2Z6KmwhOxa4LSlj1C55ACQ

Well, yes I have, obviously!

Ah course. It's too of them longnnecked leaf eatin thingamagigs. But what does that matter?

U sur it ain't 2 them long neck spotted critters from afrika?

Absolutely - it is the GUIDES responsibility and JOB to judge which animal for his clients to pursue/shoot. Otherwise, why bother having a guide? Ask for half back of the total. You will get NOTHING, but you should ask.

I wanna see some pictures as well.
Ask for your refund. Then run from that guy like crazy. Help
Others so they don’t end up in the same boat as you guys.

Sorry but i am sick of people pushing the envelope and shooting marginsl sheep. Please sue the guide in small claims court for the hunt. He needs to get a clue and hunt legal sheep.....

Agree completely and from the description one would get the idea they were looking for sheep legal by virtue of age, only...

Would be curious where the hunt took place.

Thank you all for your input. My partner talked to the guide last night and they are going to give us the refund.

Where are the pictures ?

How much did you ask for?

How much did you get?

+1

Asked for 50% and that is what they gave us. We also got offered to do another hunt at a reduced price but have not made that decision yet. I'll try to get pictures but I will have to do that at work which will be next week.

Sitka- I tried to PM you but you private message box was full.

Seems, at first blush anyway, that accepting such an offer might be giving tacit approval to their methods and the way they operate. Perhaps they made a simple mistake; perhaps they do this one a somewhat regular basis. I certainly think I'd look into their history before agreeing to accept further associations with them.

Sorry about that, just made space a few days ago and it filled right back up on me..