Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Handguns Anybody using a retention holster for CCW

I have been thinking about trying one. If any of you use or have used one what is your opinion of it. Advantages, disadvantages, is it practical?

With a holster that fits properly, there really is no need for additional retention devices for basic CCW. A high quality holster such as a Milt Sparks Executive companion is built for a specific weapon, and as such you can literally do a hand stand, and the gun is not going to come out unless you draw it in a deliberate manner.

With cheap holsters and others "Just as good as" that is not the case. As a person who used to teach weapon retention classes to law enforcement, I can personally attest to the fact that the cheap kydex, Serpas (the entire serpa holster with gun still in holster body is phenomenally easy to rip right off a belt) and other trash are not worth even looking at.

If you truly insist on a level II concealment rig, start and stop your search with Safariland .

That said, the disadvantage to the level II type holsters is that pretty much everyone outside of the ultra-dedicated who practice their draw stroke daily, end up fumbling the draw due to the added steps, when put under any kind of pressure. Many say they have it down pat, but when put under stress, pretty much 100% screw it up. Put serious pressure on them (like someone wrestling with them) and some "trained" people are almost completely unable to draw and fire their weapon in any sort of timely fashion.

The punchline is this;

Buy a high quality, non retention holster for your specific model of handgun, and don't bother with additional retention devices.

If carrying truly concealed (I.e. IWB and under a shirt) I don't bother with a retention device other than the friction of a properly designed holster coupled with a good belt. The shirt will keep the gun from view and away from grabby hands or objects. I can only recall a gun leaving the holster and both times were with the same cheap nylon holster. It's long gone. I

If I'm using an outside the waistband holster I prefer a retention device as the handgun is more visible and I feel has a higher risk of being snatched. More likely, I am outside doing work where the pistol could get snagged and pulled out of the holster so a means of retaining the gun is desired. In either case losing the gun may be a very slight possibility but a retention device gives me a small bit of peace of mind. My first holsters were Level II law enforcement holsters and those or similar are what I gravitate towards for OWB. Early training and continued use make them familiar and comforting to me.

For the most part I only use two kinds of holsters. Simply Rugged where the gun sits deep, and Askins Avengers both holsters cover the trigger guard which is my preference. I agree with Mac, if you are concealed carry there is no reason for someone to know you are carrying. I think he nailed it that people don't practice enough to not blow in on the draw with a retention holster. I grew up using revolvers, and as I transitioned to semi-autos I prefer the D/A or striker fired. I don't want to mess with anything on the way out. Not a strap, and not a safety. I don't even want my autos to have a safety on them though I have a few that do but they are the exception. Simple as draw, flash sight picture, fire. Nothing to manipulate.

Mac covered it so well, I'm almost embarrassed to contribute anything on this topic.

I think you are planning to lose if you use a retention holster. You can use weapon retention techniques and keep your gun firmly in your holster. When the turd lets go for an instant you can draw and shoot him, stopping any more deadly threat behavior. That said, you need to accomplish at least a 1000 clean draws from the holster before you use it to carry concealed.

When practicing use SNAP CAPS!

Check three times to insure you have snap caps in your firearm and not live ammunition!

I had about a half dozen students using the Blackhawk Sherpa and EVERYONE of them would muff draws especially during blind scenarios exercises when the pressure was on.

As Mackay said, if the holster fits properly there is no need for a manually operated retention devise and just puts one more step between you and staying alive....

Many good CC holsters have an adjustable tension devise like the DeSantis Speed Scabbard...one of my favorite holsters as they are reasonably priced and you don't have to wait to get one... Simply Rugged is my favorite "field" holster...

Bob

On occasion I would feel more comfortable with one, but no, I don't. I'm thinking of times when someone is standing directly behind me, or walking directly behind me, where there's a mere shirt tail between them and my handgun.

I'm always very aware of my surroundings. I have not used a holster in 15 years. I carry a 1911 inside my belt. My body frame fits this style and it never shakes loose. I can get to it very easily and it does not print. To each his own.

Good quality, friction fitting holsters with a cant with the muzzle pointed rearward, tend to require a directional grip and draw that make it harder to do a swift gun grab from behind. That, coupled with positioning the gun in the 3:30 to 4:00 range, especially in an IWB that pulls the gun tight against the body, make it easier for the wearer to keep most of the gun under an arm and also to clamp down on the gun and execute retention techniques. I don’t want other people having better access to my gun than me.

Until you start getting into level III type retention, which is impractical for CCW, many manual retention devices, such as thumb snaps, are fairly easy to disengage in a gun grab attempt. For many lesser quality holsters, it is the manual retention device that is keeping the gun in the holster, not the holster itself.

Frequent lurker, infrequent poster.

I’ve used both. Some are much better than others. As mentioned, Serpa not so much. Safariland much better. I have several #6378s that are excellent holsters with very “natural” retention releases. They also are a bit too bulky for every day carry though. Field holster of winter with a coat. I have numerous leather OWB with a simple thumbreak. As long as they ride right on your body...they are fine. Right now I’m using a DeSantis Thumbreak Scabbard for my 3” GP100 .44spl. It disappears under a light cover shirt, and thats a big hunk of stainless. Same with a Don Hume for an HK USPc. That one is the Double Nine model. Years back I had Mike Garrity of Garrity Leather make me up a IWB for the same HK...with a thumb break which was required for me at the time. No issues with that either.

Whatever you decide, TRAIN WITH IT. There’s an old adage that says at least a THOUSAND reps are required for decent muscle memory to kick in. Some of us are even slower...lol

Good luck on the quest. Holster hunting is always a hoot.

The "I just f'ing shot myself!" guy mistook the thumb safety on his 1911 for the retention release on the holster. Of course the 1911 didn't release cleanly and he pulled harder out of reflex including curling his finger inside the trigger guard. The rest is f'ing history.

That happens more with Glock owners since they are dumber than most 1911 folks.


Seriously, a good retention holster will not let you reach the safety lever on a 1911 style pistol without unsnapping the retention first.

On ATV, horse, I wear a retention holster.

Thanks everybody for your insight. Lots of good information here. Based on what has been said I will be sticking with a conventional IWB holster for concealed carry.

To my mind, a retention holster is for exposed carry. Where people can see you're carrying, and the retention is there as a delay mechanism for someone who would try to "quickly" disarm you and take your gun.

For CC there shouldn't be such a need, because no one should know you have the weapon. As for the gun staying put while you do whatever activity, a properly fitting holster should have that covered quite well.

When it comes to gun leather, do yourself a favor; by quality! Buy once, cry once; and you'll be satisfied with your holster for decades to come. Buy cheap, and you're always going to have issues with that holster. And for God's sake, don't go cheap on the belt either. You want a stiff, double thickness belt that has been made specifically for carrying a gun. Again, it will last you a long time. My belt has been with me for just shy of 15 years and it's just getting to the point to where I'm kicking around the idea of a new one. That's a LOT of life out of a $100.00 item.

I agree.Ive always gone with a heavy belt no matter what type of carry method I'm using. The holsters and other gear I use are excellent quality. Worth the investment.

The holster was a 5.11 Thumbdrive that has the goofy pedal-like button that needs to be pushed with the thumb to release the pistol. For your viewing displeasure (language):

Edit: After re-watching, he thought the 1911 safety was a thumbdrive release because he had been using a 5.11 holster earlier with a Glock.

That's one of the many advantages of AIWB carry, it's a lot easier to defend against someone grabbing your pistol.

Mackay covered everything else above already, good post.

True, but not everyone can comfortably carry AIWB. I know I can't.

I don't carry AIWB, but I see people say that a lot, and I see that some big name types carry that way. Can you (or anyone else) steer me to any retention drills on that? If true, I could see that aspect of an advantage. One of my concerns with AIWB is that the bad guy only needs to get the gun out enough to activate the trigger, and it's game over for the good guy.

Bianchi CarryLok and Evader are nice strong retention holsters well suited to concealed carry.

If you're interested in traveling for some good hands-on training, I could point you to the classes I've taken (one is coming up here in WA in October for example), but I couldn't point you to any helpful videos about it and frankly don't think it's something you can learn well from a video or online description. It's not so much about repetitive drills, as much as just some techniques that adapt to the situation. You could start by learning about the martial arts concept of the unbendable arm, and think about how to apply that to your hand on the gun in the holster. I'm not an instructor for this stuff, but that's one of the most basic techniques I've learned about retention, along with staying relaxed and calm while fighting the assailant(s) off.

I prefer kydex for this very reason. The tension can be adjusted to the level of “click” you want, and you can get it pretty tight if you need, but there’s no active retention to fiddle with.

I do say it’s silly to think that under stress you’ll not be able to defeat retention, it will be able to do weapon retention techniques.

And the thousand reps is hokey. If after 1000 reps you’ve ingrained the new holster into your “muscle memory”....What happens to your muscle memory for your old holster after 736 reps with the new one? Wouldn’t you be better off just switching after the 500 mark? Especially since everyone clamors over their inability to switch back and forth between pistols under stress...

Thanks for offering, but I can't travel for that. I was hoping there were some nationally recognized techniques in use that I could check out.

That video clip is part of my Concealed Carry class I teach.

No retention devices for me for CCW carry. Different story for my hunting rigs
.

IMO it's a general concept best experienced first hand, not just a series of drills you can watch on youtube and attempt to copy. There may be some good videos out there explaining the concepts, but probably a lot of garbage too. Retention is pretty hard to practice alone too; you really need a good training partner (or better yet several).

How about a thousand rounds for any holster your going to use for a duty weapon or a self-defense concealed weapon? The thousand rounds ain't hokey.

That sure seems to go against the “you better not switch carry guns between a Glock and 1911 because you’ll forget the safety” that gets posted here so often.

Just get a thousand reps with any gun and you can carry whatever you want.

Muscle memory and the degradation of fine motor skills under stress is well documented. It’s the same with phenomena such as auditory exclusion and sympathetic squeeze. Ask any LEO trainer that has worked with those transitioning from a DA/SA platform such as a Sig, to a striker fired weapon. Ask any .fed LEO if he has memories of being a noob walking around mumbling “decock...decock...” during the academy. Some folks adapt quicker than others. A “thousand reps” really isnt all that much. Consinder that a typical 1-day transition course (minimal) for a new issued weapon most likey consists of a minimum of 250-500 rounds plus initial dryfire familiarity, plus the qual.

Not trying to start an argument here. Carry whatever you wish. Switch daily. Switch hourly. Carry in a shoulder holster, ankle holster, IWB, fanny pack, however and with whatever method you want. Rock on. Just remember that there is a whole lot of documentation out there that says once it turns into a two-way range you’re more than likely will default to your lowest level of training.

All the best.

The retention of fine motor skills under stress is also well documented. In fact, shooting is a fine motor skill endeavor. And the FMS mantra is a great litmus test when evaluating an instructor.

This^^^^^

I suggest all students watch John McPhee, on you tube discussing 'fine motor skills'


mike r

Never heard of him. Checked it out.
Everyone’s method is the best method. Until it’s not.
Party on.

I have to wear my duty weapon concealed at times and my department requires at least a level 1 holster. My department does not recognize static retention as being any retention at all. I use a Safariland 6378, which is very similar to my duty holster. Its bulkier than I’d like and Inhave to really dress around it. I use the same holster in IDPA and I’ve used it during force-on-force training. It will work fine if you’ve trained yourself.

I dont use one when I carry off duty.

My brother swears by one for his glock...has used if for 10 years...I recently got a klydex retention holster for full size 1911 ...it's not intended in any way for concealment rather around the farm riding 4 wheeler and such...I do like it....I can see it may be a good choice if you were to carry a lighter gun with a leather retention holster....they are hard to find tho...

Your gun hand is your first and best level of retention IF someone is trying to disarm you for whatever reason. You find out real quick what gear is properly secured when you start chasing someone on foot. All that gear is heavy enough to make you feel bogged down, and when things start coming loose...well, you need a way of securing them. On more than one occasion, while in a foot pursuit with another Deputy or Deputies, I've seen back-up guns that were secured (or so thought the Deputy) go spinning on the pavement PAST us, toward the bad guy(s) as the owner lost the gun when he kicked that leg forward for the stride. I never trusted a backup gun on my ankle.