24hourcampfire.com
24hourcampfire.com
-->
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Hop To
Page 1 of 2 1 2
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 919
I
IMR4350 Offline OP
Campfire Regular
OP Offline
Campfire Regular
I
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 919
I have been thinking about trying one. If any of you use or have used one what is your opinion of it. Advantages, disadvantages, is it practical?

Last edited by IMR4350; 03/07/18.
GB1

Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 15,816
M
Campfire Ranger
Online Content
Campfire Ranger
M
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 15,816
With a holster that fits properly, there really is no need for additional retention devices for basic CCW. A high quality holster such as a Milt Sparks Executive companion is built for a specific weapon, and as such you can literally do a hand stand, and the gun is not going to come out unless you draw it in a deliberate manner.

With cheap holsters and others "Just as good as" that is not the case. As a person who used to teach weapon retention classes to law enforcement, I can personally attest to the fact that the cheap kydex, Serpas (the entire serpa holster with gun still in holster body is phenomenally easy to rip right off a belt) and other trash are not worth even looking at.

If you truly insist on a level II concealment rig, start and stop your search with Safariland .

That said, the disadvantage to the level II type holsters is that pretty much everyone outside of the ultra-dedicated who practice their draw stroke daily, end up fumbling the draw due to the added steps, when put under any kind of pressure. Many say they have it down pat, but when put under stress, pretty much 100% screw it up. Put serious pressure on them (like someone wrestling with them) and some "trained" people are almost completely unable to draw and fire their weapon in any sort of timely fashion.

The punchline is this;

Buy a high quality, non retention holster for your specific model of handgun, and don't bother with additional retention devices.


THE CHAIR IS AGAINST THE WALL.

The Tikka T3 in .308 Winchester is the Glock 19 of the rifle world.

The website is up and running!

www.lostriverammocompany.com

Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 3,162
W
Campfire Tracker
Offline
Campfire Tracker
W
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 3,162
If carrying truly concealed (I.e. IWB and under a shirt) I don't bother with a retention device other than the friction of a properly designed holster coupled with a good belt. The shirt will keep the gun from view and away from grabby hands or objects. I can only recall a gun leaving the holster and both times were with the same cheap nylon holster. It's long gone. I

If I'm using an outside the waistband holster I prefer a retention device as the handgun is more visible and I feel has a higher risk of being snatched. More likely, I am outside doing work where the pistol could get snagged and pulled out of the holster so a means of retaining the gun is desired. In either case losing the gun may be a very slight possibility but a retention device gives me a small bit of peace of mind. My first holsters were Level II law enforcement holsters and those or similar are what I gravitate towards for OWB. Early training and continued use make them familiar and comforting to me.

Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 17,732
C
Campfire Ranger
Offline
Campfire Ranger
C
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 17,732
For the most part I only use two kinds of holsters. Simply Rugged where the gun sits deep, and Askins Avengers both holsters cover the trigger guard which is my preference. I agree with Mac, if you are concealed carry there is no reason for someone to know you are carrying. I think he nailed it that people don't practice enough to not blow in on the draw with a retention holster. I grew up using revolvers, and as I transitioned to semi-autos I prefer the D/A or striker fired. I don't want to mess with anything on the way out. Not a strap, and not a safety. I don't even want my autos to have a safety on them though I have a few that do but they are the exception. Simple as draw, flash sight picture, fire. Nothing to manipulate.

Mac covered it so well, I'm almost embarrassed to contribute anything on this topic.


NRA LIFE MEMBER
GOD BLESS OUR TROOPS
ESPECIALLY THE SNIPERS!
"Suppose you were an idiot And suppose you were a member of Congress... But I repeat myself."
-Mark Twain
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 12,022
M
Campfire Outfitter
Offline
Campfire Outfitter
M
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 12,022
I think you are planning to lose if you use a retention holster. You can use weapon retention techniques and keep your gun firmly in your holster. When the turd lets go for an instant you can draw and shoot him, stopping any more deadly threat behavior. That said, you need to accomplish at least a 1000 clean draws from the holster before you use it to carry concealed.

When practicing use SNAP CAPS!

Check three times to insure you have snap caps in your firearm and not live ammunition!

IC B2

Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 7,920
R
RJM Offline
Campfire Outfitter
Offline
Campfire Outfitter
R
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 7,920
I had about a half dozen students using the Blackhawk Sherpa and EVERYONE of them would muff draws especially during blind scenarios exercises when the pressure was on.

As Mackay said, if the holster fits properly there is no need for a manually operated retention devise and just puts one more step between you and staying alive....

Many good CC holsters have an adjustable tension devise like the DeSantis Speed Scabbard...one of my favorite holsters as they are reasonably priced and you don't have to wait to get one... Simply Rugged is my favorite "field" holster...

Bob


If you can not deal with reality, reality will deal with you....
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 131,551
T
Campfire Sage
Offline
Campfire Sage
T
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 131,551
Originally Posted by IMR4350
I have been thinking about trying one. If any of you use or have used one what is your opinion of it. Advantages, disadvantages, is it practical?

On occasion I would feel more comfortable with one, but no, I don't. I'm thinking of times when someone is standing directly behind me, or walking directly behind me, where there's a mere shirt tail between them and my handgun.


[Linked Image from images7.memedroid.com]
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 3,254
S
Campfire Tracker
Offline
Campfire Tracker
S
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 3,254
I'm always very aware of my surroundings. I have not used a holster in 15 years. I carry a 1911 inside my belt. My body frame fits this style and it never shakes loose. I can get to it very easily and it does not print. To each his own.


"If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die, I want to go where they went"
Will Rogers
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 10,593
Campfire Outfitter
Offline
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 10,593

Originally Posted by The_Real_Hawkeye
Originally Posted by IMR4350
I have been thinking about trying one. If any of you use or have used one what is your opinion of it. Advantages, disadvantages, is it practical?

On occasion I would feel more comfortable with one, but no, I don't. I'm thinking of times when someone is standing directly behind me, or walking directly behind me, where there's a mere shirt tail between them and my handgun.


Good quality, friction fitting holsters with a cant with the muzzle pointed rearward, tend to require a directional grip and draw that make it harder to do a swift gun grab from behind. That, coupled with positioning the gun in the 3:30 to 4:00 range, especially in an IWB that pulls the gun tight against the body, make it easier for the wearer to keep most of the gun under an arm and also to clamp down on the gun and execute retention techniques. I don’t want other people having better access to my gun than me.

Until you start getting into level III type retention, which is impractical for CCW, many manual retention devices, such as thumb snaps, are fairly easy to disengage in a gun grab attempt. For many lesser quality holsters, it is the manual retention device that is keeping the gun in the holster, not the holster itself.


"Don't believe everything you see on the Internet" - Abraham Lincoln
Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 9
E
New Member
Offline
New Member
E
Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 9
Frequent lurker, infrequent poster.

I’ve used both. Some are much better than others. As mentioned, Serpa not so much. Safariland much better. I have several #6378s that are excellent holsters with very “natural” retention releases. They also are a bit too bulky for every day carry though. Field holster of winter with a coat. I have numerous leather OWB with a simple thumbreak. As long as they ride right on your body...they are fine. Right now I’m using a DeSantis Thumbreak Scabbard for my 3” GP100 .44spl. It disappears under a light cover shirt, and thats a big hunk of stainless. Same with a Don Hume for an HK USPc. That one is the Double Nine model. Years back I had Mike Garrity of Garrity Leather make me up a IWB for the same HK...with a thumb break which was required for me at the time. No issues with that either.

Whatever you decide, TRAIN WITH IT. There’s an old adage that says at least a THOUSAND reps are required for decent muscle memory to kick in. Some of us are even slower...lol

Good luck on the quest. Holster hunting is always a hoot.

IC B3

Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 13,546
JOG Offline
Campfire Outfitter
Offline
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 13,546
The "I just f'ing shot myself!" guy mistook the thumb safety on his 1911 for the retention release on the holster. Of course the 1911 didn't release cleanly and he pulled harder out of reflex including curling his finger inside the trigger guard. The rest is f'ing history.


Forgive me my nonsense, as I also forgive the nonsense of those that think they talk sense.
Robert Frost
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 11,263
G
Campfire Outfitter
Offline
Campfire Outfitter
G
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 11,263
Originally Posted by JOG
The "I just f'ing shot myself!" guy mistook the thumb safety on his 1911 for the retention release on the holster. Of course the 1911 didn't release cleanly and he pulled harder out of reflex including curling his finger inside the trigger guard. The rest is f'ing history.


That happens more with Glock owners since they are dumber than most 1911 folks.


Seriously, a good retention holster will not let you reach the safety lever on a 1911 style pistol without unsnapping the retention first.

On ATV, horse, I wear a retention holster.


Gun Shows are almost as comical as boat ramps in the Spring.
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 919
I
IMR4350 Offline OP
Campfire Regular
OP Offline
Campfire Regular
I
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 919
Thanks everybody for your insight. Lots of good information here. Based on what has been said I will be sticking with a conventional IWB holster for concealed carry.

Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 24,660
Campfire Ranger
Offline
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 24,660
To my mind, a retention holster is for exposed carry. Where people can see you're carrying, and the retention is there as a delay mechanism for someone who would try to "quickly" disarm you and take your gun.

For CC there shouldn't be such a need, because no one should know you have the weapon. As for the gun staying put while you do whatever activity, a properly fitting holster should have that covered quite well.

When it comes to gun leather, do yourself a favor; by quality! Buy once, cry once; and you'll be satisfied with your holster for decades to come. Buy cheap, and you're always going to have issues with that holster. And for God's sake, don't go cheap on the belt either. You want a stiff, double thickness belt that has been made specifically for carrying a gun. Again, it will last you a long time. My belt has been with me for just shy of 15 years and it's just getting to the point to where I'm kicking around the idea of a new one. That's a LOT of life out of a $100.00 item.

Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 919
I
IMR4350 Offline OP
Campfire Regular
OP Offline
Campfire Regular
I
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 919
I agree.Ive always gone with a heavy belt no matter what type of carry method I'm using. The holsters and other gear I use are excellent quality. Worth the investment.

Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 13,546
JOG Offline
Campfire Outfitter
Offline
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 13,546
Originally Posted by Gibby
Originally Posted by JOG
The "I just f'ing shot myself!" guy mistook the thumb safety on his 1911 for the retention release on the holster. Of course the 1911 didn't release cleanly and he pulled harder out of reflex including curling his finger inside the trigger guard. The rest is f'ing history.


That happens more with Glock owners since they are dumber then most 1911 folks.


Seriously, a good retention holster will not let you reach the safety lever on a 1911 style pistol without unsnapping the retention first.

On ATV, horse, I wear a retention holster.


The holster was a 5.11 Thumbdrive that has the goofy pedal-like button that needs to be pushed with the thumb to release the pistol. For your viewing displeasure (language):

Edit: After re-watching, he thought the 1911 safety was a thumbdrive release because he had been using a 5.11 holster earlier with a Glock.


Last edited by JOG; 03/08/18.

Forgive me my nonsense, as I also forgive the nonsense of those that think they talk sense.
Robert Frost
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 4,755
Y
Campfire Tracker
Offline
Campfire Tracker
Y
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 4,755
Originally Posted by The_Real_Hawkeye
Originally Posted by IMR4350
I have been thinking about trying one. If any of you use or have used one what is your opinion of it. Advantages, disadvantages, is it practical?

On occasion I would feel more comfortable with one, but no, I don't. I'm thinking of times when someone is standing directly behind me, or walking directly behind me, where there's a mere shirt tail between them and my handgun.


That's one of the many advantages of AIWB carry, it's a lot easier to defend against someone grabbing your pistol.

Mackay covered everything else above already, good post.

Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 131,551
T
Campfire Sage
Offline
Campfire Sage
T
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 131,551
Originally Posted by Yondering
Originally Posted by The_Real_Hawkeye
Originally Posted by IMR4350
I have been thinking about trying one. If any of you use or have used one what is your opinion of it. Advantages, disadvantages, is it practical?

On occasion I would feel more comfortable with one, but no, I don't. I'm thinking of times when someone is standing directly behind me, or walking directly behind me, where there's a mere shirt tail between them and my handgun.


That's one of the many advantages of AIWB carry, it's a lot easier to defend against someone grabbing your pistol.

Mackay covered everything else above already, good post.

True, but not everyone can comfortably carry AIWB. I know I can't.


[Linked Image from images7.memedroid.com]
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 10,593
Campfire Outfitter
Offline
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 10,593
Originally Posted by Yondering

That's one of the many advantages of AIWB carry, it's a lot easier to defend against someone grabbing your pistol.

I don't carry AIWB, but I see people say that a lot, and I see that some big name types carry that way. Can you (or anyone else) steer me to any retention drills on that? If true, I could see that aspect of an advantage. One of my concerns with AIWB is that the bad guy only needs to get the gun out enough to activate the trigger, and it's game over for the good guy.


"Don't believe everything you see on the Internet" - Abraham Lincoln
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 2,886
Campfire Regular
Offline
Campfire Regular
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 2,886
Bianchi CarryLok and Evader are nice strong retention holsters well suited to concealed carry.



abusus non tollit usum
Page 1 of 2 1 2

Moderated by  RickBin 

Link Copied to Clipboard
AX24

613 members (10gaugeman, 12344mag, 10ring1, 1337Fungi, 1941USMC, 16penny, 58 invisible), 2,644 guests, and 1,120 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Statistics
Forums81
Topics1,191,310
Posts18,468,202
Members73,928
Most Online11,491
Jul 7th, 2023


 


Fish & Game Departments | Solunar Tables | Mission Statement | Privacy Policy | Contact Us | DMCA
Hunting | Fishing | Camping | Backpacking | Reloading | Campfire Forums | Gear Shop
Copyright © 2000-2024 24hourcampfire.com, Inc. All Rights Reserved.



Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5
(Release build 20201027)
Responsive Width:

PHP: 7.3.33 Page Time: 0.076s Queries: 15 (0.003s) Memory: 0.9027 MB (Peak: 1.0779 MB) Data Comp: Zlib Server Time: 2024-04-25 15:00:18 UTC
Valid HTML 5 and Valid CSS