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Originally Posted by Backroads
I get it, you are a wilderness advocate. As an American that lives, and recreates, in and around several wilderness areas, I see an elitist attitude displayed.

Only one of us wants to restrict others access.



Nice try but I'm content with the small fraction of public land that's wilderness staying that way. The reality is, only one of us is demanding that 100% of public lands be open to his preferred method of travel. That seems to be putting your own preferences above everyone else's so who's the elitist?

I'm at the age where I have a few more years of being able to access wilderness. When I can't access it any more I'll still be happy to know that those places are available for others to access, if they want to. The country would be lesser without them.



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The problem isn't Wilderness, it is Wilderness advocates. It seems that they can't get enough and want to force that upon everybody. Wilderness has preserved public land from roads and improvements that are claimed to be better for the environment, people and users. Wilderness does exclude a lot of people incapable of heavy packs and long hikes. I have no issue with that, those places are already preserved by Wilderness allotment.

What really stinks, is how much land is tied up that isn't Wilderness by being called a "study" area, which virtually makes it Wilderness. When is enough really enough. People that want Wilderness can go there and anywhere else they choose, but the reverse is not true and so much public land is inaccessible by the public.


Originally Posted by RJY66

I was thinking the other day how much I used to hate Bill Clinton. He was freaking George Washington compared to what they are now.
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No, it's not "inaccessible by the public." Every year where I hunt I see all manner of people hiking the trails. And some on horseback. And a big herd of sheep and their herder. Dave skinner will tell you that in Colorado it's not really wilderness because there are people behind every tree.



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Originally Posted by HitnRun


What really stinks, is how much land is tied up that isn't Wilderness by being called a "study" area, which virtually makes it Wilderness. When is enough really enough. People that want Wilderness can go there and anywhere else they choose, but the reverse is not true and so much public land is inaccessible by the public.


So, how much is that exactly? I've yet to run across any.

The total amount of Wilderness is minuscule relative to anything else.

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Wilderness Study Areas are only "tied up" in the minds of people that want to exercise their "right" to access them with ATV's... News Flash: your stinking ATV is an infringement of others rights to enjoy the peace and purity of the backcountry.

Talk about elitists imposing their fumes, noise, and oil leaks on others...



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Originally Posted by LeroyBeans
Originally Posted by HitnRun


What really stinks, is how much land is tied up that isn't Wilderness by being called a "study" area, which virtually makes it Wilderness. When is enough really enough. People that want Wilderness can go there and anywhere else they choose, but the reverse is not true and so much public land is inaccessible by the public.


So, how much is that exactly? I've yet to run across any.

The total amount of Wilderness is minuscule relative to anything else.


That's a really sophomoric comparison. How much land is unaffected by human beings since the migration west over 100 years ago? There is a surplus of federal land in the Rocky Mountain states that has been preserved by the Federal Government as Forest Service. Wilderness areas in these lands have kept growing in comparison to what was originally set aside. Wilderness advocates seem to think that all land that isn't designated Wilderness is full of roads and easily accessed. You need to get out more and see how remote some of this country really is.


Originally Posted by RJY66

I was thinking the other day how much I used to hate Bill Clinton. He was freaking George Washington compared to what they are now.
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Originally Posted by Brad
Wilderness Study Areas are only "tied up" in the minds of people that want to exercise their "right" to access them with ATV's... News Flash: your stinking ATV is an infringement of others rights to enjoy the peace and purity of the backcountry.

Talk about elitists imposing their fumes, noise, and oil leaks on others...



I feel the same way about stock. All they do is destroy trails and [bleep] on them. Can we ban their use too? I hope so, its just an easy way for lazy fat old people to access "their" land....what a joke. I get really triggered when i see fatties riding horses. I mean i packed my micro brews in on my back...

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Originally Posted by HitnRun
Originally Posted by LeroyBeans
Originally Posted by HitnRun


What really stinks, is how much land is tied up that isn't Wilderness by being called a "study" area, which virtually makes it Wilderness. When is enough really enough. People that want Wilderness can go there and anywhere else they choose, but the reverse is not true and so much public land is inaccessible by the public.


So, how much is that exactly? I've yet to run across any.

The total amount of Wilderness is minuscule relative to anything else.


That's a really sophomoric comparison. How much land is unaffected by human beings since the migration west over 100 years ago? There is a surplus of federal land in the Rocky Mountain states that has been preserved by the Federal Government as Forest Service. Wilderness areas in these lands have kept growing in comparison to what was originally set aside. Wilderness advocates seem to think that all land that isn't designated Wilderness is full of roads and easily accessed. You need to get out more and see how remote some of this country really is.


Really? What's sophomoric is that you have nothing to defend yourself. Talk about unarmed. How many acres? Simple question

And now there is a surplus no less? Say who? You? By what authority? By what measure, is there a surplus? Still growing? How much did it grow last year? Let's have some objectives measures here.

I get out quite a lot, thank you.

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Originally Posted by smokepole
Originally Posted by Backroads
I get it, you are a wilderness advocate. As an American that lives, and recreates, in and around several wilderness areas, I see an elitist attitude displayed.

Only one of us wants to restrict others access.



Nice try but I'm content with the small fraction of public land that's wilderness staying that way. The reality is, only one of us is demanding that 100% of public lands be open to his preferred method of travel. That seems to be putting your own preferences above everyone else's so who's the elitist?

I'm at the age where I have a few more years of being able to access wilderness. When I can't access it any more I'll still be happy to know that those places are available for others to access, if they want to. The country would be lesser without them.

As I said, only one of us wants to restrict access. BHA is a perfect organization to support for people with this mindset..

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Originally Posted by LeroyBeans
Originally Posted by Backroads
I get it, you are a wilderness advocate. As an American that lives, and recreates, in and around several wilderness areas, I see an elitist attitude displayed.

Only one of us wants to restrict others access.

So, you are opposed to wilderness areas then. Do you also need pavement all the way in?

I am all for limiting some areas to foot traffic only.

I am opposed to public land being set aside for two special user groups. Are you good with having wilderness areas closed to horse traffic?

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Originally Posted by Backroads
Originally Posted by LeroyBeans
Originally Posted by Backroads
I get it, you are a wilderness advocate. As an American that lives, and recreates, in and around several wilderness areas, I see an elitist attitude displayed.

Only one of us wants to restrict others access.

So, you are opposed to wilderness areas then. Do you also need pavement all the way in?

I am all for limiting some areas to foot traffic only.

I am opposed to public land being set aside for two special user groups. Are you good with having wilderness areas closed to horse traffic?


As a horse owner I have no problem with that.

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Originally Posted by Backroads

Are you good with having wilderness areas closed to horse traffic?




I'm not, and I'll never ride a horse in one. Thing is, these areas have always been open to people riding horses and it ain't my place to change all that because I don't like horses. But you need to ride your atv there, so we all need to bow to your wishes, right?



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Originally Posted by smokepole
Originally Posted by Backroads

Are you good with having wilderness areas closed to horse traffic?




I'm not, and I'll never ride a horse in one. Thing is, these areas have always been open to people riding horses and it ain't my place to change all that


First sentence: wow you are soo principled.

Second sentence: so we should just accept status quo at all times? You wouldve been popular in the deep south during jim crow....(see that liberal tactic i used there?)

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Can someone explain to me why we need more access in/on any public lands in the continental US? I hunt several Western States every year and believe we have too many roads already. Don't get me started on *#@"$## ATVs. Biggest crock of BS ever.


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Originally Posted by Jackson_Handy
Originally Posted by smokepole
Originally Posted by Backroads

Are you good with having wilderness areas closed to horse traffic?




I'm not, and I'll never ride a horse in one. Thing is, these areas have always been open to people riding horses and it ain't my place to change all that


First sentence: wow you are soo principled.

Second sentence: so we should just accept status quo at all times? You wouldve been popular in the deep south during jim crow....(see that liberal tactic i used there?)


I think there's been a mistake here. You've mistaken me for someone who gives a sh** about what you have to offer.. You've proven yourself to be a jackass.



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Originally Posted by smokepole
Originally Posted by Jackson_Handy
Originally Posted by smokepole
Originally Posted by Backroads

Are you good with having wilderness areas closed to horse traffic?




I'm not, and I'll never ride a horse in one. Thing is, these areas have always been open to people riding horses and it ain't my place to change all that


First sentence: wow you are soo principled.

Second sentence: so we should just accept status quo at all times? You wouldve been popular in the deep south during jim crow....(see that liberal tactic i used there?)


I think there's been a mistake here. You've mistaken me for someone who gives a sh** about what you have to offer.. You've proven yourself to be a jackass.


This is certainly a way to not convince anyone of anything. Horses have historically been allowed into all back country due to their existence so much before any motorized use. It wasn't that long ago, motorized travel was allowed in back country, but that has been shut down to almost zero. Changes in your favor are always more welcome than changes in someone else's favor, that is clear.

If you don't like motorized use, you already have Wilderness areas and Wilderness "study" areas that you can visit without being molested by the motorized use, why not just go there and be happy. Instead it seems that you need to make everything the way you want and that is the biggest rub with the other side of the issue when those people just want a share of that access. I don't believe that other users want to open up the Wilderness to that type of use, just preserve their ability to use what is left.


Originally Posted by RJY66

I was thinking the other day how much I used to hate Bill Clinton. He was freaking George Washington compared to what they are now.
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Originally Posted by smokepole
Originally Posted by Jackson_Handy
Originally Posted by smokepole
Originally Posted by Backroads

Are you good with having wilderness areas closed to horse traffic?




I'm not, and I'll never ride a horse in one. Thing is, these areas have always been open to people riding horses and it ain't my place to change all that


First sentence: wow you are soo principled.

Second sentence: so we should just accept status quo at all times? You wouldve been popular in the deep south during jim crow....(see that liberal tactic i used there?)


I think there's been a mistake here. You've mistaken me for someone who gives a sh** about what you have to offer.. You've proven yourself to be a jackass.


Oh no, no mistaking a holier than thou pos like you

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I think the fair way to resolve this is 50/50. Take all the public land in the western US, make 50% wilderness, 50% not. There you go.

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Originally Posted by riverdog
I think the fair way to resolve this is 50/50. Take all the public land in the western US, make 50% wilderness, 50% not. There you go.


What about the rest of America? Before it was all busted up, even the Great Plains was wilderness. Why not make more wilderness out of the rest of the country, then you would put less strain on the present wilderness and the rest of the Eastern migration wouldn’t have to travel all the way to the Rockies.


Originally Posted by RJY66

I was thinking the other day how much I used to hate Bill Clinton. He was freaking George Washington compared to what they are now.
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Originally Posted by riverdog
I think the fair way to resolve this is 50/50. Take all the public land in the western US, make 50% wilderness, 50% not. There you go.


I like that. Make Wyoming all wilderness tho to keep out the greenie doper kueers.

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