Home Forums Hunting & Shooting AR and Tactical Rifles If new cartridges would most be interested in Varmint, target, hunting?

If a company were to come out with a new cartridge say 150fps faster than any other AR15 cartridge currently being produced what do you think MOST would be interested in? 22-24cal Varmint. 22-6.5mm target, 6.5-30 cal hunting (deer-hog). Of course they are limited by the length of the mag and the case capacity can't push big heavy bullets too fast. Long range target cartridges may be best if kept in the 6mm or 224 cal with the new high BC bullets that are coming out. A deer /hog cartridge may have the best terminal performance with a 30 cal bullet but I would just like to hear what most people would be interested in.
Thanks

The 223 WSSM is faster than a 22-250 and could load 75 Amax's at mag length or 40 grain prairie dog bullets but it still failed.

A 223AI is a simple conversion in an AR, the Grendel takes VLD bullets, not sure what more could be gained.

You are right the wssm failed for one reason or another. Edit- didn't really fail, just didn't catch on.

When you kill all kinds of things with a 300/221 out to 200 yards with a 194 sub sonic bullet, you realize it takes a good bullet and shot placement.

Beyond that no extra 150 fps has really done a lot.

BUT if thats what one wants or needs( I have some fairly warm magnum bolt guns and such) then its what one wants.

I think to make a wildcat work, you have to catch the eye of a big company to start with... note the 22/6.8 thats been around for so long I can't really recall but now this Valkyrie thing might catch on, though its basically the same dang thing..

Got to have factory ammo available whatever the cartridge is.

It failed to "catch on". It failed.

I think feeding issues had a lot to do with that, as well as it failed to offer enough advantage to counter its drawbacks in cost, availability, lack of vendor support, etc.. The .223 is the new .22LR in may aspects. I only had a .22-250 when the WSSM came out but never gave the WSSM any consideration. Now I have a couple .223's (one an AR) as well and have no interest in the new 22 Nosler round either - for pretty much the same reasons. If I want more I'll jump to my .243 or .257.

I think the area of AR cartridges is so crowded that releasing anything else is just ho-hum. Whatever you want is already out there, at least as a wildcat.

The 223 kills pigs just fine, plenty of brass out there. Brass for a new cartridge would have to be fireformed. I’m lazy, too much trouble.

New cartridge brass wouldn't have to be fireformed unless not factory supported.

Every wildcat does not require "fire-forming" most are made simple so most people can handle it.

There are some things that are not out there and just about every cat is made to improve performance/ increase velocity. Long range and varmint guys are always looking for a cartridge with better exterior ballistics. Many hunters are looking for better terminal performance because some of them can't shoot 10 hogs in the brain stem with a 223 in the dark using thermal while they are all running different directions. In the end every hunter doesn't want to use the same cartridge so companies come up with different cartridges to try to fit the role better.
I understand that 99% of the members here only own 223s and there are other sites that talk about others calibers and uses more but there are quite a few members here and thought I would give it a shot.

I thought the 25 (6.5, 7mm, 30) WSSM could perhaps be the ultimate all around cartridge. Of course I never owned one...

I think the point here, is that there have been so many other rounds on the AR15 platform, i'm not sure that you could find some niche that has not been tried.

As to not brain stemming, the 223 and ttsx bullets does way more on pigs than most think... this from a guy that kills most of his pigs here with a suppressed 10-22...

Absolutely no interest in a new AR cartridge that would gain 150 fps. I'm a much bigger fan of commonly available components that are reasonably priced than the latest and greatest wizz bang super zapper.

If I want more oomph I'll grab a bolt gun and have true magnum performance.

Just out of curiosity, what did you have in mind?

Most guys calling are tired of losing game from being shot with a 5.56 and 300 Blackout. This is one more effective than a 5.56- thermal hog hunt

Terminal,

I'm completely happy with the .223/5.56 for killing varmints.

Living in Colorado, a minimum requirement of a .243 bullet diameter for hunting, and magazine restrictions. So, I'm looking for maximum performance in a standard sized AR mag with a minimum bullet diameter of .243, and 85gr for elk. that creates the least additional work.

Currently I have a nice inventory of .223/5.56 stuff primarily using the Wylde chamber.

I recently added a couple 6mmx45 barrels I have yet to build out. So if you invented something that provided a significant advantage over the 6x45 and 7.62x40 Wilson using a standard AR magazine, you might have my attention.

I've been around the 223wssm on quite a few kills and never found it lacking but my hunting partner settled on the 223AI and 60 gr NBT's for both hogs and coyote.

Me on the other hand, I haven't found the standard 223 lacking with the right bullet. I use 55 gr NBT's and 77 gr SMK's for coyote and even in hogs but if I'm going after hogs, I use the 62 gr TSX. Put the bullet where it goes and things die.

I also shoot light weight carbines instead of heavy rifles. The AR has to be handy or I'll grab something that will do a lot more, like my 22-250ai Montana.I don't like heavy guns and too me, the 223 fits just right in an AR-15. Ackley makes the best solution to add 100 fps with minimal fuss, shoot I added 400 fps going to a 22" 223ai in a bolt gun but kept killing stuff with the standard 223 in an AR so I sold it.

I just don't see anything missing that will increase the killing power and still fit in a magazine. But if you got something in mind, go for it.

Most guys then must not deserve a gun or to shoot game. If you can't kill it with either round you are a moron or ignorant or worse...

That would have been fun shooting, on the video. Didn't see anything there that would leave me sorry for having only a 223 in my hands... YMMV.
Having just come back from a hog hunt with thermal and night vision, running the 223 showed no flaws and no lost hogs. That said I've not been lucky enough to have a place to shoot in grain fields. Yet dump a ttsx in every pig in the right place and you just won't have a problem.

AR-10 in .308 or 6.5 Creed

Those 308s would work really well. In fact I hunt with a guy that uses one on pigs all the time. Granted we don't have open fields as mentioned, but I've seen him fire at the most 4 rounds before the pigs were gone. I've yet to see him hit anything after the first shot.

OTOH I've used both 223 and the 6.8 necked to 6mm and I've killed as many as 5 before they left the sendero. A week ago I managed 4 and missed the 5th shot.

Lucky for the rest of us that the firearm manufacturers do not listen to your advice and introduce more cartridges for us to choose from.

knock yourself out. Its actually what keeps the business alive, telling folks and folks believing, that they can't accomplish it with whats out there.

And there isn't a thing you can't accomplish with whats out there for the AR15 platform or the AR10 platform already.

BUT its a free country and you can sure give er a whirl.

But I stick by my statement, if you are loosing game with a 223 or a 300 blackout its not the guns fault.

So whats your thoughts?

30 AR necked to 6mm?

I'd be interested to hear what kind of cartridge the OP has in mind as well.

Pretty much everything's already been done in some form in AR wildcats, although there are certainly some good wildcats that are better than the commercial options. For example, the 22 and 6mm Grendel-based variants for long range can beat the pants off either of those 22 cal AR options recently released by Nosler and Federal. BHW's American 30 makes for a pretty decent mid-range hunting round. The 20 Tactical & 20 Practical rounds make a lot of sense for economical high velocity varmint rounds.
It seems that some of those could do pretty well if introduced as commercial rounds.