Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Deer Hunting Shorten Crossbow Season (for some)in Wisconsin?

Chainsaw , I'm just nudging ya. The day may be coming for me to use a crossbow too. My son is 21 last week, he has a bow but never uses it. He has a bad eye and can't hardly shoot a bow and would have a hard time shooting left hand. He even shoots his rifle right hand but uses his left eye. Glasses are useless. I would love to see him get a crossbow . At least he would go bow hunting with me.

There is info folks will want to understand that has not been explained yet in the thread as it relates to shortening the crossbow season. In fact there are some very unfactual comments that have been made thus far as well as some incorrect assumptions. I can shed some light on the entire timeline and the how and why of what has transpired thus far.

Prior to 2014, myself and others worked to create a separate crossbow season in Wisconsin with a separate crossbow license and separate crossbow kill registration. We worked very hard at this and we got the separate crossbow season back in 2014. The separation of crossbow hunting and archery deer hunting was something other states did not do. Those other states simply lumped crossbow hunting into an existing archery deer season. We saw the error in that so we structured the WI crossbow season totally separate of bowhunting. We saw what was happening in others states and sought for separation so that the success of the crossbower would not have negative impacts on actual bowhunters.

When the deliberations of this new crossbow season were taking place, the question came up regarding the length of this new season. Many suggestions were made but in the end, everybody agreed that for a TEMPORARY period, the crossbow season would have the same duration as actual bowhunting. In the wording of the legislation we insisted that there be a trial period of a few years to gather usage and harvest data and that the data collected would aid the Natural Resources Board in setting the actual and final crossbow season duration. This data collection was only possible because we successfully negotiated the separation of bowhunting from crossbow hunting. That data has been collected and tells the tale of success rates for bowhunters, crossbow hunters and firearms hunters per license sold. As we had predicted, the crossbower would enjoy a higher success rate than that of bowhunters but we never dreamed the crossbower would enjoy a higher success rate than gun deer hunters.

The point being is that the initial duration of the WI crossbow season was only TEMPORARY and that once data was collected, the FINAL DURATION of the crossbow season would be set. Some made the mistake of thinking that the duration of the crossbow season was set when the season started. I think this mistake or misunderstanding by crossbow hunters is the main reason they protest now. They make the mistake of thinking the crossbow season is being shortened when actually is just now being set per the wording of the legislation. I think if people came to that realization there would be less angst. Again, all this was structured so as to not have negative impacts on bowhunting because of the success rate of crossbowers. We supported the creation and continuation of a crossbow season but at the same time needed and wanted to preserv, promote and protect bowhunting in Wisconsin.

In 2016 I wrote a resolution for the Waukesha county spring hearing to shorten the crossbow season. I used the higher success rates of the crossbower as the basis of my resolution. My resolution passed in my county. The next step of the process was for my resolution to be taken up at the committee level. My resolution was killed in the WCC deer and elk committee based (as it so often happens) on personal grudges and payback since the name of the author is known to the committee members.

In 2017 I again wrote a resolution in Waukesha County to shorten the crossbow season and again it passed. Once again it went to deer and elk committee. I was invited to attend the meeting to plead my case. I wasn’t unable to attend the WCC committee meeting due to my workload with my new company I was getting up and running but I penned a letter explaining the Crossbow harvest data the DNR gathered that supported the need to shorten the crossbow season. The harvest data shows that the crossbower has a higher buck kill success rate than not only actual bowhunters but the crossbower has a higher buck kill success rate than even gun deer hunters. The gun season is 9 days due to the impacts on the resource and the effectiveness of the weapon. The bow season is longer due to the low success rates of bowhunters and the challenges of bowhunting to be successful. The crossbow season should then be somewhere in between the length of the gun season and the bow season. The deer and elk committee saw fit to advance my resolution to their next committee.

Below is the text of that letter I sent them.

"Im writing you today about my resolution which passed in Waukesha County regarding Crossbow hunters impacts and success rates compared to those of bowhunters and gun deer hunters. Unfortunately I’m unable to attend the meeting where my resolution will be discussed.

Im attaching DNR data that captures the success rates of the crossbower because the tenants of the 2013 legislation that created the crossbow license and crossbow season specifically stated that initially, the crossbow season would occur at the same time that bowhunting is taking place and that this overlap would occur for 2 years, at which time the crossbow season could be adjusted by the DNR based on the data gathered. Those 2 years (and more) have passed and the data supports the adjusting of the crossbow season length. Its time to respect the wording of the legislation and the agreement that was made which created the crossbow season.

Data shows that the crossbower has a higher success rate than do bowhunters and also higher than that of even gun deer hunters. Crossbows are substantially superior to archery equipment used by bowhunters and crossbow use in a season as long as the archery season affords their users a substantial advantage and disparity, not only over bowhunters, but also over the firearms hunters and their shorter season. The supplied data was gathered with crossbowers using current technology but will only become even more lopsided with the release of the Ravin crossbow starting this year.

My resolution does not specifically suggest a length for the crossbow season. The decision on the duration of the crossbow season should come from a group of impacted stakeholders and the DNR but its clear that the duration of the crossbow season should be somewhere between the length of the 9 day gun deer season and the length of the bowhunting season.

I successfully ran this resolution in Waukesha County last year only to have it end with your deer and elk committee. Im asking that you advance this resolution because for the 2nd year in a row, its successfully passed in more than one county through the conservation congress process. Its time that the discussion of adjustment of the crossbow season begins.

I'm not asking that your committee litigate this matter or that you set the crossbow season structure in your meeting as that is outside the scope of your mission. I'm only asking that you to advance the resolution so the discussion of the proper duration of the crossbow season can take place.

Im trying to advance the matter of the adjustment of the crossbow season via the WCC but if another year long delay occurs, more direct routes via the NRB and the legislature have to be exercised to address the matter per the agreement struck when the crossbow season legislation was written.

Crossbow advancements are growing at an incredible rate yet a bowhunter can only hunt with a weapon so powerful as the users strength allows him to draw the peak weight and hold the draw with only human power. The data collected by the DNR shows the advantage to the crossbower. Its time to level the playing field.

Thanks You
Ron Kulas"

(end letter)


I did not expect the WCC to advance my resolution so I’d taken additional measures to hedge my bet (Call it an insurance policy) The committee took up my resolution but during deliberations, I was told to me over the phone that the DNR informed the committee that the DNR itself would be running the question (this was good news as it shortens the time frame because its now a DNR question) Being this question would be asked by the DNR, this actually constitutes a public hearing on the matter since the season can be shortened by DNR rules promulgation (as directed by the NRB). The NRB will certainly play a role in the eventual shortening of the crossbow season and it should be noted that there are some very good people on the NRB that care deeply about this issue. Some of them were just now appointed to another 6 year term.

I was contacted by the presiding officer of this meeting and told that they “tabled” my resolution once the DNR took up the matter. I later learned that was not true and that what I was told, was not what took place. A later review of their meeting minutes (all public record) indicated that they actually made a motion to reject my resolution. That motion was seconded. And that the Conservation Congress would work with the DNR on the matter.

When I learned of this, I reached out to the Natural Resources Board (which oversees both the WCC and the DNR) they were informed of a different telling of events and that the DNR would NOT be running the question and because the WCC tabled my resolution, it was dead for yet another year. In effect, the WCC, through a procedural process, halted my resolution for another year.

I raised the issue and began speaking out on how they once again overruled voters and were trying to once again kill the matter for another year. This prompted an NRB member to draft a question that would be asked at the spring hearings (the spring hearing questionnaire has questions that originate from 1 of 4 origins and those are 1. Prior year citizen resolutions that survive the process, 2. WCC questions born in the committees. 3. DNR questions and 4. NRB questions.)

The insurance policy I had created early on was paying off. The actions of the WCC and the DNR upset the NRB. They could see they were conspiring yet again, trying to prevent asking a question they may not like the answer to. The wording of the NRB question was deliberated over, refined and then read at a meeting of the Natural Resources Board. Members of the Conservation Congress and the DNR were present at that reading and they (surprise surprise) offered to run the question (suddenly they had an interest in the matter). They were shut down by the NRB who told them they had ample chance at this and their actions had now excluded them from the matter. In fact, one member of the NRB asked if any of this was required at all and that the DNR should simply adjust the crossbow season since the data supported the action and that the DNR ought to adjust the crossbow season for 2018. The NRB was informed that there was no time to reflect that in the regulation in such a short time frame but this was clearly a shot across the bow of both the DNR and the NRB that they were not going to tolerate the actions of those two bodies and their attempt to disenfranchise voters that for two years, supported the adjusting of the crossbow season.

The question that voters will answer is very clear and simple. The result will tell the NRB the will of the public for 2018. I would expect that the public will support adjusting the crossbow season duration. If so, then we will set about setting the final duration of that season. Nobody is suggesting an end to the crossbow season, only the final setting of the season length in accordance with the legislation that created it. I and others support the crossbower and their activity. While its not something Im interested in doing because I am a bowhunter, I understand that at some point down the road and due to advanced age or disability, I may one day have to quit the sport of bowhunting. I can either stay home or take up the sport of crossbow hunting. I have no distain for the crossbower. I wish them well and may at some point in the distant future, be one and will accept the season duration that is set based on impacts to the resource. I have been working on this matter since 2012. I will accept the vote of the public regardless of the outcome. I only wanted that the public get the opportunity to be asked their opinion and provide the state with direction. Regarless of the outcome, the state will continue total separation of bowhunting and crossbowing so we will be able to track usage and success. If the adjustment does not happen in 2019, it will happen further down the road because we were clever enough to get the separation from actual bowhunting.

As far as comments made that the Wisconsin Bowhunters Association is being selfish or not wanting other hunters in the woods or them not wanting to share the woods with others. That is about the silliest thing I have ever heard. Ever since bowhunting started, bowhunters have shared the woods with all other folks that enjoy the fall and winter forests. The WBH is not anti crossbow and in fact has crossbow hunters in their membership. Their mission is to preserve, promote and protect the sport of bowhunting in Wisconsin. I hope this corrects some of the false comments that have ben made in this thread by others.

Ron, why does the news clipping appear on the Wisconsin Bowhunters Ass. website that Brust wants to stop crossbow hunters from hunting during the rut?

As far as the data you are using, last years data without actual registration of the actual deer killed with which type of bow is just numbers. Easily skewed!

For the most part I'm not buying what you are trying to sell.

That is not a requirement for the truth to be the truth. Case in point. The earth is round yet there exists a segment of the population that demands its flat. You are free to believe or disbelieve as you wish. Mine was only a telling of there timeline of events since I have lived it for the last 7 years.

Ron, you wouldn't know what the truth is if it crashed thru the ceiling and landed in your lap. After what you have done in the past, don't lecture me on the truth.
Your motto should be,"Don't let the truth get in the way of telling a good story" You and WBA have been less than forthright about your intentions.

Are you denying that you and WBA want to stop crossbow hunting during the rut in Wisconsin? I'll await your answer.

Again Your believing is not required. I will go so far as to say that modern technology has not yet invented a device sensitive enough to detect how little I care if people believe the events of the last 7 years. I know the exacting details as I have been party to all of it. Believe it or not. I won't cafe either way.



The discussion of what the season structure for crossbowers would look like is only in its infancy. We are discussing a variety of season dates based on DNR data. If the goal is equity in harvest while allowing for unlimited usage for anybody that wants to be a crossbower one needs to look at the harvest data. That data shows nearly no harvest by crossbowers in late December and Early Jan so trimming off those days would not result in an equitable harvest per weapon. Discussions are ongoing in advance of the vote in case voters support adjusting the crossbow season but rest assured there are a variety of scenarios being discussed.

One party that is not at the table is the Wisconsin Crossbow Federation. Right after the crossbow season we created, that group dissolved. (as was expected). These had no membership and thus folded like a cheap card table. In fact I just visited their facebook page which states:

"The Wisconsin Crossbow Federation has disbanded. Our goal was to legalize crossbows for hunting along side of all other archers. Mission Accomplished. THANKS FOR YOUR SUPPORT!"

Why does there need to be any special seasons?

Deer is either open or it ain't. Use whatever the fugg you wish when open, go fishing when it ain't open.

Wisconsin has dedicated seasons for deer. We have a season for bowhunting and a season for crossbowing and a season for firearms and a season for Muzzleloading. What is NOT up for discussion is the elimination of any season. The seasons exists. eliminating or creating additional seasons is not on the table so discussion of such is wasted typing.

As far as the crossbow federation is concerned, I could care less as I don't/won't belong to lobbying groups such as yours and have never been a member of any group.

But I can see that with the intentions your group has, dues and lobbying have to be a part of it. To get passed some of the ideas you have/had
others need to take it in the shorts so you can pass the savings onto yourselves. The only Heritage your group can pass on is one of lobbying,
with the goal to limit other types of hunters opportunities.

I saw how Brust explained "The Data" on his fall 2017 address and I'm sure smellin' what you guys are cookin' up, and its got a bad aroma to it.

Again Your believing is not required. I will go so far as to say that modern technology has not yet invented a device sensitive enough to detect how little I care if people believe the events of the last 7 years. I know the exacting details as I have been party to all of it. Believe it or not. I won't cafe either way.



In layman's terms what chainsaw is trying to tell you is: Your a hypocritcal, lying, poacher that can't tell the truth if you tried. You're like Larry Root, banned but won't go away.

Ahhhhhh. He's THAT Ron Kulas - authority on deer in WI and "rules-don't-apply-to-me-Ron-Kulas"...

Link:
http://host.madison.com/sports/recr...9217f20-56bb-11e2-b15a-001a4bcf887a.html

Yes there is a segment of every population that is for self and only self and won't work to defend what they have enjoyed at the hands of the work of others. We carry that sort over the finish line on our backs as they kick and scream and call us names.



Again you are incorrect. WBH does not have a lobbyist. It has not for many many years. You invent stuff to make yourself feel good about your position. I would warn against getting too deep in such inventions. You lose sight of reality.




Again you manufacture your own flawed reality and then fall for it.



Imagine a scenario where you believe everything I or Brust say. Then imagine one where you don't believe us. Now tell me how ether make a bit of difference? What you believe or not is not in any way important. Remember, you don't join or belong to groups. You are an army of none. I certainly don't care either way what it is you believe. Aside from you. Can you name anybody else that would care what you believe that has a say in how the crossbow season is structured?

Those little crabapples didn't fall far from the Crabtree either did they Ron. I've got a feeling you won't be here long.

I'm getting lost here. Who is Larry Root? Also, there should have never been a TEMPORARY season that is a full season. If you make something like that , then you make the crossbow season shorter temporarily. If thing go good, maybe make it a bit longer , not the other way around. Now we have people " shortening crossbow season" . Very bad idea. Maybe it should have been a month at first, see how people react. In New York it starts a few weeks after bow season starts. Why does Wisconsin screw everything up?

There was no temporary crossbow season. The crossbow season was created. Its not being deleted. What was temporary was the length until data could be collected. The parties involved, all agreed that the length would be adjusted if need be. You can play pretend but that is a pointless effort.

Ihookem......are you playing pretend? Lmao

Data courtesy of the WI DNR. The success rate of actual bowhunters is pretty consistent and has been for many years. The same can be said of gun deer hunters. The success rate of the crossbower. is greater than even gun deer hunters. This speaks to the efficiency of the weapon and the long temporary season duration. Since its unlikely that one could reduce the killing potential of the weapon, season duration is the logical means by which to bring the harvest on par with other weapons (per the mandates of the legislation that created the crossbow season.)

Some (out of state hunters) will ask, why only use buck kill data? The answer is simple. In Wisconsin, Antlerless deer are killed at a regulated or mandated rate. Some counties still don't allow the killing of any antlerless deer due to a low population while other counties offer one antlerless tag with the purchase of a license while others offer 2 or 3 antlerless tags. Some allow for additional bonus antlerless tags and some counties offer no bonus antlerless tags.

Some counties have additional antlerless seasons while others do not so anterless harvest is very inconsistent from county to county and from year to year so they make a poor yardstick for harvest data.

Bucks on the other hand are killed at opportunity rate meaning everybody that buys a license gets a buck tag across the board and people hunt for bucks but may or may not take a doe in the process of hunting bucks.

This data was gather with hunters using existing offerings in both bows and crossbows. Bows have long since reached their maximum lethality since the user is limited by his or her own human strength. Crossbows however are still in their infancy regarding power and design and lethality, range and accuracy so its understandable that the success rates of the crossbower climbs each year and will continue to do so while despite advances in "accessories" for actual bowhunters, we are limited in our lethality by our own human strength to hoist back a peak weight we can muster at the time of out attempts on game.

Crossbows boasting gun-like groups at 100 and 200 yards don't know the limits of a bow and arrow.



This is what draws former bowhunters and existing gun deer hunters to crossbowing.
.
.
.
.

Skewed results. The other forum you run your mouth in proved it.

Glad to see that Ron has not changed one bit.

How's the baiting been?

He even pays to be a sponsor on archerytalk and has to talk in 3rd person (his son) to participate. He has run his kids name in the dirt now too. Great role model for his boys and their track record shows for. The apples didn't fall far from the tree. ; )