Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Deer Hunting Shorten Crossbow Season (for some)in Wisconsin?

This appeared in our local newspaper in Shawano County Wi.

As I looked through the Wisconsin Department of Natural Resources spring public hearings questionnaire that will come to a vote across the state on April 9, I was more than a little surprised to read a very biased question that did not seem to come from the emotionless, generally logical DNR that I’ve come to know and occasionally love the past 18 years.

The folks who brought us Earn A Buck and deer management by county also have helped bring us some of the best deer hunting on earth, according to the Boone and Crockett and Pope and Young clubs. Biologists pride themselves on facts and graphs and carrying capacity and forest regeneration statistics.

In 2014, the state legalized crossbows for all deer hunters (previously it required the hunter to be age 65 or older, or have a physical handicap that prohibited use of a vertical bow). Many other states have done the same thing. With dwindling hunter numbers nationwide and a burgeoning deer herd, the crossbow allows increased hunting opportunities for the young, old and everyone in-between. As a ground blind hunter, I find the crossbow to be perfect for shooting through small windows without the draw interference I had with a compound or recurve bow.

Wisconsin archers embraced the crossbow, with sales soaring and statistics showing about 38 percent of all archery deer hunters now using crossbows. Last year — for the first time in state history — crossbow hunters killed more deer than vertical bow hunters.

The DNR’s been begging us to shoot more antlerless deer for many years now in the farmland zones, including Shawano and Waupaca counties. Hunters argue about whether there are too many deer, but the biologists point to the lack of forest regeneration, visible browse lines and other data that support deer overpopulation.

Most farmland county Deer Advisory Councils support decreased herds or maintaining herd numbers. The DNR (and virtually any organization wanting to support hunting) says it tries to increase hunting opportunities and hunter recruitment. Question 18 could crush that promise.

On the questionnaire, part of question 18 reads: The data is in. Crossbows did not produce the anticipated increase in deer hunter numbers. The long season did create a dramatic shift of both gun hunters and bowhunters into the crossbow season where their odds (success rate) of harvesting a buck are approaching approximately 50 percent greater than those of either gun hunters or bowhunters in their respective seasons. This imbalance and the increased harvest of bucks before the traditional gun season has created frustration, concern and a further breakdown of Wisconsin’s deer hunting traditions. In order to give all deer hunters an equal chance to harvest a buck, and to return the exclusive advantage of a long crossbow season to the disabled and elderly, it has been suggested to shorten the season for the able-bodied to reflect the effectiveness of the weapon based on harvest data. 18. Do you support the DNR adjusting the length of the crossbow season, for those that are not disabled or elderly, to better reflect harvest success?

I would love to know the author of this question and ask them a question: How does a crossbow increase your odds of shooting a buck? Does it hold magical powers that lure in a buck like the latest deer call? I’ve shot one small buck in four years, and have not seen any more deer than before I carried a crossbow. Most crossbows remain a 40-yard weapon, because the shorter bolt of a crossbow has less mass than a full-sized vertical bow arrow, and therefore carries less energy at longer distances.

Crossbows, vertical bows, rifles, shotguns and slingshots are only as accurate as the person using them. I’m trying to contain my emotions, but the claim that crossbow hunters have a 50 percent greater chance of bagging a buck than even gun hunters is a flat out lie.

“The imbalance and the increased harvest of bucks before the traditional gun season has created frustration (for whom?), concern and a further breakdown of Wisconsin’s deer hunting traditions.”

Wow. How did this biased bit of emotional BS get on a spring ballot from an agency that tells us they are using science and reasoning to guide our wildlife management? Crossbows are a threat to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness, according to this author. Pretty sad. It reminds me of the arguments against the AR-15.

I also remember the arguments against compound bows back in the early 1970s. They were going to ruin archery deer hunting. You could hold the string back forever. They are so unfair.

Well, the lightning-fast compound bows made in Sparta and elsewhere are a far cry from those early bows by Allen and Jennings. Many vertical bows shoot arrows as fast as crossbows. They have sights and are fired with release aids. We all want humane kills, and both the modern compound bow and crossbow do that.

I did discuss this topic with a local archery shop pro. One problem with selling a crossbow is that the buyer doesn’t need to come back to the shop for many years (assuming he won’t want to upgrade to a faster model like the compound bow buyers often do, or buy multiple crossbows for other family members.)

Maybe that’s what this is all about: the almighty dollar. Compound bow sales have slacked off and crossbow sales have skyrocketed the past few years. Hunters make their choices with their pocketbooks.

Some crossbows top $2,000, more than twice the price of the top vertical bows. The average Joe is more content to spent $400 to $700 for a decent crossbow — roughly the same dough as a decent bow. You can buy a very accurate bolt-action rifle with scope now for about $400. Some of us own many guns, bows and crossbows. This has nothing to do with deer management, either.

We hunters can be some of the biggest crybabies around. As if we don’t have enough enemies, we love to fight each other. Traditional archers with a longbow consider the recurve to be outlandish. Recurve shooters mock the compound. Compound hunters ridicule the crossbow. Gun hunters fight the archers.

As Benjamin Franklin once said: “We shall all hang together or we shall all hang separately.” I bet the antis love the state’s effort to snuff out crossbow use after initially encouraging it. Everyone sees deer as “their deer” on their land, but the state normally says no, the wildlife belongs to everyone. We share this bounty with all, unlike the feudal practices of Europe where the kings owned the wildlife and the peasants caught poaching were hanged.

Now it seems someone at the DNR has it in for crossbows because someone is gaining the imaginary upper hand.

I would urge you to put down your $700 handheld computer called a cell phone long enough to vote no against this ridiculous proposal.

Ross Bielema is a freelance writer from New London and owner of Wolf River Concealed Carry LLC. Contact him at Rosswolfriverccw.com.

Chainsaw a good post that one. Being on the north side of the 65 year old geezer list, I suppose that being feeble like I'm supposed to be that I will still be permitted to use my unfair crossbow. I do enjoy the heck out of our 4-5 month archery season and we get to hunt the rut and pre-rut to say nothing of the nicer weather. I'd been a compound bow hunter for a lot of years, but I gave it up because I was getting seen when I drew my bow and I wounded two deer that I didn't recover. I said to myself that if I wasn't going to take the time to practice more and be more proficient with my bow, that I shouldn't be out there deer hunting. I heard too many of the one that got away stories and I didn't like it. That all changed when they permitted me to use a scope sighted crossbow and the thing is little more than a rifle with a string. My first deer with that TenPoint, an 8 pointer at 34 yards, took that bolt through the lungs and out the other side through a shoulder blade and I never saw that kind of performance or precision with my compound. My point is that if a gun deer hunter can't beat them why the heck not join them? I can hunt the farm country agricultural areas closer to home with my crossbow as a management tool and fill the freezer with a meat deer, then go up north and just look for a trophy buck for the gun season. Archery season has made me a better all around deer hunter. We can only take one buck in the archery season and another one in the gun season, which isn't that much for a family to eat through in a year. I'm going to shoot a meat doe before I'm going to shoot a mini buck and not shoot anything that doesn't measure up come gun season. If my kid is a millennial typical and I think he is, there are far less deer hunters coming up in the ranks and hunting should be encouraged, not discouraged with more restrictions.

More bucks are being harvested because more people are hunting the rut simple. A lot of people who were never bowhunters are crossbow hunters. A lot of gunhunters have shifted to crossbow. Longer season ability to hunt during the rut and hunt during warmer weather are few factors that make hunting with a crossbow appealing. The traditonal gun season deer camp is nearly dead in Wisconsin. People don't or can't take the week off but a weekend here and there to sit with a crossbow is doable. The timing of the Wisconsin gun season has always sucked. Usually falls exactly during post rut and minimal deer movement. So yes crossbows have not drawn new hunters just shifted the weapons they carry.

There is a lot of fighting among hunters in WI. I really think the archery hunters are the biggest bunch of whiners out there. Not all but the vast majority. They want to be the only ones allowed in the woods during prime deer hunting time and they want as little competetion as possible so someone does not shoot "their" deer. They gotta be like the idiots on TV. Have the latest gear, have to dress in the latest camo pattern to look cool as they go out to whack the "spilt g 5 buck" or whatever dumb name the give a deer they get on camera. I could go on for hours about the the crap I have dealt with first hand when it comes to elitist whiny trophy buck hunting bowhunters that will do anything to get "their" deer. Too many people think hunting is about shooting the big buck no matter what.

I am sure the author of this question is a bowhunter who wants fewer people in the woods with the same kill the trophy buck no matter what mentality that they have. Someone else might shoot "their" deer. Even though a lot of people hunting with a crossbow simply want more opportunities to hunt and don't give crap about a trophy. The people that simply want to hunt more and are happy with any harvest are the ones that are usually hurt the most by these types of regulations. We need to support hunting period, not one particular groups definition of hunting.

They are a lot madder at deer than I am. I have killed several deer with a crossbow, but it gives me no more tags, and I can fill all of my tags during rifle season or muzzle load season, if I choose. And a crossbow is awkward, and the deer tend to jump the string. I don't recall ever hitting one where I thought I would, even though at targets, I shoot at different dots to keep from ruining bolts. I even shortened up my shots to under 25 yards, to help with that. They are like trying to drag jumper cables through the woods, and I have all but quit using it. miles

When the first rumblings using a crossbow hit the scene in Cheeseville, the Wisconsin Bowhunters Group protested loudly. I'm thinking the
question is basically coming from them.

If this gains traction, I am wondering how the DNR is going to try and get the horse back in the corral after opening the gate. The biggest problem
is the underlying deceit with the wording of the question in the first place. Like any other approach to a perceived problem, those
that "feel" affected always struggle with coming up with an explanation of how they have been wronged, instead of speaking the truth of
their agenda.

What do you now say to the dedicated hunter who likes crossbow hunting, who purchased a 1000-2000 dollar crossbow?
You notice how they intentionally did not want to take on old guys and handicapped, as they know old guys like me, will challenge
them relentlessly.

The DNR has to be tired of those whiners. I'm a bowhunter and love to be in the woods at that time of year. But good lord the WI Bowhunters as a group are whiners.

A guy I used to work with had a tantrum because "his" deer was hit by a car. I don't mean he was mad for day. It was a all out 4 year old temper tantrum by a 45 year old.

i kinda think to each their own choice,but I am 65 years of age and just had another very serious shoulder surgery and I have hunted with a bow for over 50 years now and I am hoping for myself I can hunt this fall again with my bow I can draw myself,i personally am not ready for a x-bow yet.but for my friends that`s fine what they want to hunt with yes its easier with x-bow but no matter what anyone uses its just a harvest tool , my big concern is do you eat your deer ? if you don`t you have no reason to hunt gun,bow,x-bow ,we need to all stick together ,to many bunny hungers now days !

About 20 years ago there was a contractor working in my building who claimed to be a "Professional Bowhunter", which I took to mean he had paid someone for a decal he could stick on his car window. He went on a rant about how his state (Kentucky) was going to destroy the deer herd by allowing gun hunters to hunt during the rut. What he really meant, of course, was that he was going to lose his monopoly on the best time to be in the woods.

Here we have four counties where firearms aren't allowed for deer hunting at all and they really hang some nice ones. That would be a disaster for most of the state where there are often too many deer and bowhunting just won't get the job done. In my county, there's a special early antlerless season. on private land only, just to keep the numbers down.

NY bowhunters are the same. Biggest buncha whine azzes I've ever seen.

Well , here it goes. The DNR should have never let crossbows be the same as regular bow season. There is no way around it the crossbow is a more efficient weapon. It is hardly a bow with a scope on it. I think it should have stayed the way it was, disabled and senior citizens . They really screwed themselves over now. You have 80,000? crossbow out there and now they want to shorten the season? Yes, I am a regular bowhunter. The reason the bow season is almost 4 months is cause it is a lot harder to kill a deer with a vertical bow, was even harder with a longbow. I practice a lot and only shoot the best shots, and 27 yds is my limit, and the last 2 deer were 13 and 17 yds. I , like 7mm Mike have argued that we should make gun season earlier . In Price/ Sawyer co. where I hunt it can be so cold . My knees and shoulders just dont stand for it anymore when it's cold. There have been times I can't even pull back the bow . I get stiff out there and I am only pulling 49 lbs. Because so many hunters are getting old, the crossbow had unintended consequences . Many stopped gun hunting . There are so few gun hunters up north these days that in many areas there is no pressure at all, and the lack of shooting proves it. Wisconsin needs to shorten the whole bow season if we shorten crossbow season. We also need to open gun season earlier up north like north of HWY 8 a week earlier. My son, 21 , will most likely quit gun hunting. I wont quit yet but my years of freezing half to death up north on Nov. 23 and not see a deer for 4 days are all but over. We can also adjust laws to curb the harvest by getting rid of baiting. I used to bait but refuse now. It is so easy , even with a vertical bow to shoot a deer over bait. It is even easier with a crossbow no doubt. SO, get rid of bait, make it a $ 1,000 fine if caught, make gun season one week earlier, and maybe one buck per season, and lower doe harvest north of HWY 8 to zero for some years.. Just my opinions .

First off, I am a crossbow hunter and started 4 years ago when I retired as I had more time to hunt and practise.
I really don't care what others hunt or how they do it. I think we need to be all inclusive and accept any legal way
to hunt, not to pit one hunter against another.

If this gains some traction, I will stand up for those that hunt in anyway that is deemed legal.
It really grinds my beans to see this hooray for me and screw you type of attitude that is seeming to get grip on the way
one perceives one hunter being able to have an advantage over another.

But this might be another case of the government giveth and the government taketh away. I have my big wrench ready to throw into the gears as I type.

I think the massive body of gun hunters should just stand up and say F^ck you to all the whine ass bow/crossbow/muzzleloader hunters. Y'all can hunt with whatever you want but there'll be only one season and if you choose to hunt with your bow, crossbow or smokepole you'll be doing it right alongside the gun totin' crowd. I'm just so tired of hearing "my way's harder so I deserve a special time all to myself and you don't because you use a more efficient weapon". Grow the hell up boys. I've hunted for MANY years with an iron sighted .30-30 while most everyone else was using flat shooting, scoped bolt actions. MY CHOICE. No reason to seek a special season or complain that the other guy has an advantage. Too many whine azz little girls running around the woods these days that should leave the hunting to men.

Well geese guys, I hope I didn't offend anyone. I did say we need to shorten the whole bow season if we keep crossbows , or restrict the harvest. One way is to make bait illegal. I even said, even with my regular bow it was so easy over bait. Now we have a dilemma. Gun hunters saying they dont see many deer. One reason is cause about 25% of the deer are in the freezer. I also said we need to make gun season earlier, especially up north . Like 7mm said, gun season starts right when the bucks are done chasing and he is right. My trail cam proves it every year, About Oct. 29 to Nov. 9 , I get bucks moving in the daytime, after that is is rare to get a day pic in the fall. Restrict the buck harvest to one per year and no party hunting? I don't know everything but I know many of my ideas would work but noone wants to change. Every time I mention this on Lake-Link.com I get nothing but insults and arguments. Banning bait realy causes a ruckus there. As for me , like I said , I only pull back 49LBS with my compound cause my shoulders wont stand for any more when I'm cold. The day WILL come when I am crossbow bound, or I can go down to 40-45LBS. That works too but distance is even more limited , like 20 yds? That is fine with me too. I think we can all agree, the Wis. DNR is in trouble if the deer license sales keep dropping. Last year should have been a wakeup call but they are so unaware , or out of touch with reality that they dont see a problem, almost like less hunters is what they want. Last year Wis. sold 12,000 less gun deer licenses. We sold less regular bow licenses and to make matters worse , crossbow licenses were also down 2,000?. There is no doubt, there is a shift from gun to crossbow and a shift from regular bow to crossbow. The problem is , now there are even less crossbows licenses too. This can be good as far as I'm concerned but may be a problem some day. I hunt some of the highest pressured public land in Wisconsin, Washington co. I rarely see another hunter. They are there , but they stay in the open hardwoods and I hunt the marsh grass where I rarely get by without water up past my 18" boots. During gun season many say there are a lot of hunters but a friend gun hunted there said he saw 2 hunters 100 yds from the road . That was the only hunters he saw and he went back in 3/4 mi. and saw noone. WOW, I rarely see another hunter during muzzy neither. Like I said, in Price co. where I gun hunt, I have not see a hunter across the river since 2009 , and just 2 cars opening day at the end of the road where the public land starts . My land is at the end of the road. Miles of very little hunting pressure but the deer are tired. The bucks have to run themselves half to death to find a few does up there. By gun season, they are tired and move very little in the daytime. I swear , if everyone would stop baiting , and hunt like we used to hunt, northern Wisconsin could have rifle season all of November and still harvest less bucks than we do now. My opinions are not what most hunters want to hear though.

Definitely agree on the baiting. I have baited. I had a real nice piece of private ground to hunt in Washington county. Trouble was it was almost too good. Bait would at times slightly tip the deer movement in my favor. There was just so many good food sources and travel routes it was very hard to pattern the deer, baiting gave them a slightly better choice. Even during the rut there was so many does damn near every buck could stumble on to a piece of ass so even scrapes and rub lines were minimal and used inconsistently. Baiting did very little to change deer movement for me.

Now up north were I used to hunt, Northern Marinette county baiting makes a huge difference. A lot of times it can make deer very easy to shoot. Not alot of food around the deer will congregate around the bait pile. Does will be bait for the bucks that are traveling hard looking for some action. During early season and the rut all this is great. And it is great for whoever is baiting. Everyone else cannot figure why they cannot see a deer. Well every deer which ain't many are sitting with a few hundred yards of the golden corral of bait piles in the particular area. Now once the rut is over and the deer feel some hunting pressure baiting screws everyone over including the baiter. The deer sit down in the thickest cover they can find closest to the easiest food source which will be the best bait pile in the area. Bucks are no longer getting the does on their feet and at night there is numerous things around looking to eat them. So they sit til dark and don't move unless they get stepped on. Eliminate baiting in some areas of the state will help distribute the deer across the landscape better but still think post rut deer activity will mainly be at night. Without more hunters kicking things around we are not going to see any of the deer regardless of the population numbers. We are not going to get more hunters until they start seeing more deer. Just cannot win.

As for my spot I had in Washington county. Well another friend of the family got permission to hunt. He was one the whiney ass bowhunters I have spoke of. Well he spread all kinds of BS about me and my family to the landowner even called some outright lies into the game warden. So despite a ten year plus relationship with the landowner I got the boot this year. So now that assshole is the only one on the property to shoot "his" deer.

Mike, you are lucky to have ten yrs. I hunt public land and nothing else. I see a deer or deer sighting one in four sits here on public. land. I do still enjoy it but sure would like to see some more deer. And Chainsaw, he lis the lucky one, hunting in Waupaca co. He sees deer every time he goes out. Heck, I bet he gets a deer sometimes before he even gets to the stand huh? Then he get to hunt another chunk in Oconto co. In all honesty , I am thinking of going to Upper Michigan to just give it a try. Menominee or Delta co. seems like good deer numbers but Menominee Co. has a lot of hunters. Oh well, looks like up north is going to suck again this year . Price co. is going to get hammered again with 6" of snow today, then they are back up to 16" . Ya, and snowing like crazy here in northern Washington co. now. A half inch in about 20 minutes. Golf ball size snowflakes.

Wisconsin has created such a cottage industry for corn and apples that lots of people have forgotten even how to hunt deer. Even where the counties have made baiting illegal, people have gotten so use to baiting in deer that they are doing it anyway. The hunting population is getting older and we are not going to be walking all over in the big woods jumping up the deer for other people. Private land owners are not going to push "their" deer off their property either. I hunted Price County for a few years, but it is too flat and too big without enough edge and the deer can be anywhere and not move post rut. I was talking to a warden west of Butternut and he said that they flew that section the day before and counted 23 bait piles within a mile of were we were standing. I never went back. The rut, people and weather move deer. I hunt a big woods that is darn near inaccessible where they don't bait, but I only have the weather most of the time to get the deer moving, but they move naturally at dawn and late afternoon if people don't screw it up and make the deer nocturnal. Michigan gun season opens November 15th, but Minnesota opens a week before ours does and having hunted both, I'll take Minnesota for bigger bucks and rut movement gun hunting. The step-kids dad bought a 40 for them to hunt in south western Wisconsin and there are so many deer over there that I don't remember a season where they didn't get a buck or pass on some waiting for a trophy one. They can even head over there second weekend and fill up. I'm getting jealous of their trophy room. My 12 and 18 pointer has them beat rack wise, but they get the numbers and they don't work at it as hard as I do.

This wasn't written by the DNR, it was written by WI Bow Hunters.

WBH Pres. Brust has been on a crusade lately in all the local publications, etc.

Under the current administration, special interest groups are running the roost. WI Bow Hunters has a plant on the Natural Resources Board also. This is pure and simply a special interest pushing a question veiled as the DNR because apparently in right now, Government (Left or Right) is for special interests, public trust be damned.

I don't dispute that there are more hunters out earlier in the year, and it's probably gun hunters fed up with WI Bow Hunters whining and making any change to the "traditional" gun season impossible. Problem is, gun hunters are not organized like the bow hunters. Things would be much different with 600,000 organized gun hunters demanding change over 40,000 organized whiny bow hunters.

I like bow hunting, I do it the way I want to, understand that I'm the reason that I'm successful or unsuccessful. Do I agree that all things that are "legal" are ethical, no, but I don't do them and that's where it stops, everyone's ethics are a little different and laws, for the most part, are set up to protect basic rights and populations, etc.

There's a lot of this in WI. About deer hunting, the Packers, it's kind of ridiculous.

I believe if the data was actually scrutinized you would find that most crossbow hunters are out looking for an "extra" buck. Not many solely hunt with a crossbow, unlike many bowhunters that do not gun hunt.

Additionally, if Wisconsin really wanted to have better deer hunting, ie. bigger bucks, the season should be ONE buck per year, any weapon. Forcing people to choose how they want to fill their tag, like several western states, would at least help spread hunting pressure out. More importantly, beyond those just learning to hunt, there is no reason Wisconsin hunters should be killing two immature bucks year after year after year.

Wisconsin does have too many deer in many regions and there should be liberal doe harvest. Shooting lots of bucks does nothing for long term population control- it just lets whatever bucks are left standing, whether immature or genetically inferior, breed more.

I enjoy the three months that I am allowed to hunt in Wisconsin, if people want to extend the time they want to hunt by use of bows or crossbows I can't fault them for that. But most of the crossbow hunters I am aware of are solely out with that particular weapon to get an additional buck. Forcing people to choose how they would fill their buck tag, if they were only given one, would improve both the deer hunting experience as hunting pressure would be spread out, hunters would eventually start seeing greater numbers of mature bucks, and improve the health of deer herd.

Unfortunately, Wisconsin has demonstrated a willingness to cave to public/political pressure in wildlife management, rather than manage the resource in a thoughtful biologically sound manner.

Crossbows and baiting are examples of this.

Lots of good posts. I still love deer hunting and wont quit till I can't go anymore. I will slow down to nothing I guess. I am not sure but can I shoot a buck with my compound and crossbow? If so that is no good but never thought of it till the " extra buck " post of TCP. Also, there is a lot of disagreement in hunting law cause noone posts where they hunt. Price/ Sawyer public hunting is a whole different world compared to some private in say, Woolworth co. 10 miles form the ill- annoy border. I say save the does and Woolworth co. hunters jumps off is seat screaming! I would love to hunt deer a week earlier in Price co. I saw it for years when bow hunting . I saw deer till the week before gun season. And actually Minnesota gun season starts 2 weeks earlier if I'm not mistaken. Propose that Wisconsin starts one week earlier and hunters scream about tradition is lost . It was 3 days one time. Michigan starts between 2 days earlier and 8 days earlier . Kentucky and Missouri starts one week earlier . Upstate New York starts November 1st or even in October.