Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunting Rifles 30-06 vs 308 argument finally settled!

Would be interesting if they allowed either

I'm going to post here at the risk of appearing to talk out of two sides of my mouth;

Yes and no. The problem with the 30-06 military loadings were that the powder charges did not fill the case. In fact they left a good amount of "air space". A best practice of the day was to tilt the rifle upward to settle the powder column against the primer before firing. Not possible during rapid fire though. Rifle looney solution would be to just load a slower powder to improve load density right? No can do for M1 Garand which was sensitive to powder burn rate for proper function and longevity. Best solution applied was to go the the newer 7.62 NATO which did not have those problems...thus the "Navy Garands" were born. Expedient solution applied was chamber inserts, and magazine blocks. Later rifles had properly cut chambers. And yes, they did shoot better than the 30-06's. Some Navy shooters insist to this day that the 7.62 Garands shot better than the M14's out to 1000 yards. I say the evidence of the day doesn't support that as there were no big wins for the Navy when they were shooting against the 14's.

Here's the evidence from the other side of my mouth.
Someone brought up the Warren Page article that showed accuracy testing data from the Remington Custom shop. Fascinating piece of information, but the supposed case of recoil being the deciding factor did not hold true for the 30-06. The 308 rifles shot significantly better than the 30-06's...and there is a definite trend that could say that increasing recoil caused decreasing accuracy (negative correlation). The problem is that the 30-06 is an outlier of sorts because it shot larger groups on average than one of the heavier recoiling chamberings (7mm Rem Mag) and was virtually the same as one of the 30 magnums (30-338).

With all of that said, I cut my teeth hunting a 308. My go to gun is now a 30-06 but would have no qualms about grabbing one of the 308's...and when asked why I don't go to one of the more "modern" calibers or load my 30's to what they are capable of, my reply is that I have shot thousands of rounds of both, burning out multiple barrels in competition. I am intimately familiar with making wind calls for a 168 at ~2600 fps and load to that level which has translated well for a 165. I limit my shots to what I am confident I can kill and recover with a very high probability of success.

Of course! the standard comeback of all 30-06 and 1911/ .45 ACP guys when they've run out of logical arguments. "TWO WORLD WARS".

F-T/R requires .223 Remington or .308 Winchester.

F-Open requires any cartridge 35 caliber or less.

Comparing Super Performance Ammo (after all 6.5 CM is a Hornady invention): 308 Win 150 grain SST at 3,000 fps and 6.5 CM 129 SST at 2,950, the 308 Win compares pretty well out to 500 yards for practical shooting distance on game in the field. It delivers greater energy at all distances out to 500 yards, being almost 300 ft-lbs greater at 200 yards; 200 ft-lbs greater at 300 yards; 125 ft-lbs greater at 400 yards; at 500 yards the 308 Win maintains a 60 ft-lbs advantage. With 200 yard zero for both, at 300 yards the 6.5 CM shoots 1/10 of an inch flatter; at 400 yards the 6.5 CM shoots 4/10 of an inch flatter; at 500 yards the 6.5 CM shoots 1.2 inches flatter.

If you were to substitute the 165 grain 308 Win and 140 grain 6.5 CM you'd see pretty much the same. So the 308 Win can hang pretty well with the 6.5 CM at all practical hunting distances. For hunting large game such as moose, I would rather shoot the 308 Win with 180-200 grain bullets over anything the Creedmoor can hurl. IMO the 6.5 Creedmoor is somewhat less versatile than the 308 Win when it comes to larger game. Certainly both SA cartridges work well and no one should lose any sleep over which is better.

Wind drift is the key, drop doesn't matter.....

We could have of course won both World Wars with the 308 Winchester just as easily. The WWII load was a 150 at 2,700.

Well you got me there. Using same projectiles with 15 mph at 90 degree cross: 300 yards the 308 Win will have to account for 0.9 inch more wind drift; at 400 yards the 308 Win will have to account for 1.6 inches more wind drift; at 500 yards the 308 Win will have to account for 2.6 inches more wind drift. Not terribly difficult to factor in and still hangs pretty well with the Creedmoor. Not to mention the 1,000s of pages of paper written on the 308 Win shooting 700-1000 yard matches accounting for drop and drift. With the scopes you can utilize today in the hunting field out at 500 yards or so, I still don't see the chore being any more difficult for the 308 Win than the 6.5 CM at these distances.

Then when you get to the 6.5 stuff that's pushing .700 BC's, it's like DAMN. Thing is, you can't unring a bell and knowing that schit kinda puts a little thorn in your side. Trust me, I've made the argument that "it's just another 6" at 500....or whatever"....but it's still there.

To top it off, I don't have either and still like a lowly 270. I can live with +\- .450's at 2,950 since it's pretty close to 75's in my 223 which I shoot a bit of.


Point being I realize I'm still sucking hind tit...no matter how well I might shoot.

Blasphemy.....no 25-06, no 6.5-06, no 270, no 280, no 338-06, and no Whelan.

Go say 30 "Hail Mary's and think upon what you have done.

But isn't today's 308, yesterday's 30-06?


Dunno....if I were shopping for either and found a steal on the other, I'd buy it in a heartbeat.

I'm in the both crowd. With 150s and perhaps 165s, I like the .308. With 180 Superformance and 200s, I like the '06. With 150s in my BAR, it shoots good and is mild on the shoulder.

Jack

As yet I have not seen convincing proof, although from an engineering standpoint I would expect a marginal difference, advantage .308 Win. Shorter action = stiffer action, all other factors remaining equal, plus a powder column with a higher diameter/length ratio for more even/complete burn.

Putting an insert in a rifle to change the cartridge makes it, AFAIC, a very different rifle. Shooting anything but the best handloads for each also skews the results. So does different leade lengths, bullet jump, twist rates, etc. Corral ALL the variables and run the tests, then if the .308 comes out ahead I could be convinced. Have not seen such tests yet.


On that I completely agree.


I'll stick with my 6.5-06AI.

Palma requires 308. Ft-r requires 308. would be interesting if 30-06 was allowed in both Ft-r and Palma.

Check the rule book again. .223 Remington is allowed for F-T/R.

A properly loaded 300 Savage would've done the trick too.

Yawn - 100 years from now our descendants will be having this debate.
Meanwhile the Creedmoor will have the history then like the Swede does now.
And the 270 will still be alive. JOC, Jerry, and JB will be smiling, and perhaps chuckling.

Fun discussion. In the end, it boils down to 2 things.

Good bullet. Thru vitals. And that really falls on 1 factor. The shooter. They choose the bullet (not headstamp) - and address it. Then hit send. If you shoot your weapon well, all ends well. Sounds easy enough right? 🤔

Now back to my 6 and 6.5’s....someday I really should upgrade to a 30 cal 🧐

Meanwhile someone is dumping game with low recoiling, flat shooting, high BC/SD 22 cal 😁

Have a great week folks and enjoy whatever you choose. All about fun.

Yawn, the 308's like sex in the missionary position with a fugly wife and with the lights out..but it works.

PS: I don't own a 308

Agree. But the discussion is about a comparison between the 30-06 and 308 . The 30-06 in not allowed in Ftr. If it was it would allow a direct comparison Btween those two.