Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunter's Campfire How many acres would 400 cords be?

The slash will be a huge issue. The usable timber is a relatively small portion of wood that is removed. Be prepared to deal with a big mess that may require a bulldozer to pile up the slash to burn it or strip out any firewood you may want to use.

kwg

400 cords divided by 65 acres is 6.15 cords per acre. That's a little over half a load on a 40 foot log trailer: not much it seems to me, keeping in mind that I am in the South. If the whole tract consisted of 8 inch diameter trees 50 feet tall (what we'd consider ready for a first thinning here), they'd only need to take out about 75-80 stems per acre to get 6.15 cords per acre. Obviously, as diameter and height change, so will the number of trees taken out. If they are getting the wood from all over the whole tract, then it sounds like it's a thinning job; but by all means get additional info from the logger, the state forest service, or a forestry consultant. You should definitely want to see the contract to be sure that the seller is protected against logging abuses, and I'd show the contract to my attorney as well.

In Idaho there is a "holdback" of X amount of dollars (%15, I think, but don't quote me) of what the party is to receive.
After the logging is done, cleaned up and bald spots replanted (if necessary), the state will approve for the holdback to be paid.
Not sure if your state has this plan, but it does help keep the cleanup disaster at bay, IF the contractor wants ALL of the money.
If the contractor skips out, the state has a pool of money to work on cleanup i.e. hire someone else to do so.
That said, the land I have personal experience on in taking possession "after" logging looked like an Scud missile went off.
It is amazing how fast the ground heals itself after the strike, though. It took 5 years to get the replanting done. That is how long the timber company had to complete it as per the state regs.....and they waited as long as possible.

From your picture, I myself would want a buffer strip left along the hwy.
From Steelhead's info I would imagine all 65 are going to be thinned.
It will improve hunting though.

I had 20 acres of 25 year old plantation pines thinned a few months ago & got 14 truck loads out of it if I remember right. A truckload is about 10 cords and they thinned it back to about 90 trees per acre left standing which is what a mature pine stand should be. They took about half the trees & it looks really nice now. Doing the math that’s about 7 cords per acre for mine, 400 cords divided by 65 acres is 6.15 cords per acre so the OP’s thinning would be a little less than mine.

Mine was a uniform stand of planted pine, if you’re having big hardwood thinned one tree will make a lot more volume than smaller pines so it all depends upon the timber size as to how many trees will make up a cord. If it’s got decent timber on it now then 400 cords over 65 acres doesn’t sound like a very aggressive thinning. Keep in mind I’m in the south too & there’s a lot of regional variation in timber practices.

What you really need to do is find a local independent forestry consultant to go look at it. He can tell you at a glance what you’re going to be left with. The areas are too different for someone from the south or PNW to be able to tell you much about it.

So at 51,200 cubic feet, that would be around 600,000 brd feet and a log truck in the PNW hauling doug fir can typically haul about 3,000 brd ft per load so you are looking at 200 log truck loads or about 3 log truck loads per acre. Another way to look at it is that it is 9450 brd ft per acre which is quite a lot out here (that would be about $7,500 per acre of timber - minus logging costs). As others have said, not knowing the size and density of the trees, I would guess they are planning to take all of the merchantable trees (which is what timber companies normally do). It will be a mess so check who has that responsibility and if there is an obligation to replant. Here we have to replant within 2 years and the trees have to be free to grow in 4 - 5 years.

The more important question would be if the seller is retaining the timber rights, or not? If the seller retains the rights it does not much matter what he takes before the sale as he will have the option to return after the sale and clear cut the balance if he chooses.

Thanks guys for all the good information.
I have been in contact with my agent all day. This is a new listing. She has learned that the owner that signed the contract is ether incapacitated or deceased and the property is being sold by the estate and nobody seems to know anything.
She is trying to get in contact with the proper person at the company that has the contract on the lumber to get a copy of it.
The home is nice, all tongue and grove walls and ceilings and a two car garage. The price is so good. If the house was on just five acres of land in that area should be about the asking price or more.
I am hopeful but like they say, If the deal seems to be to good to be true, it probably is...

You are talking about aspen pulp wood. Looking at that photo, I would say that only a small portion of that property has mature trees on it. The bulk of it is aspen regrowth and willow. Most of the property will remain as it is now. The slash can be burned in the winter, but aspen doesn't produce a ton of it and it rots away fast. It will re-gen very quickly on its own - you will see that when you look at the rest of the property. A thinning later on will give you a better stand, but it will largely self thin as time goes on.

P M Bigstick... he is a timber tramp.

I've had a couple of my 40s logged in that area.

You're talking about 40+ truckloads.

Many of the loggers in that area run the slash through a chipper for
places that burn chips.

Logging is essential for good grouse and deer hunting in that area.

The white cedar is usually left standing as well as white pine.

Welcome to wolf country!

Lots of apples and oranges being compared on this thread. A cord is 128 cu. ft. About the same as a big 3/4 ton pickup load. But what are you talking about? Firewood, pulp or timber. Timber is seldom measured in cords. A long log truck here in north Idaho can get on about 12 to 15 cords of firewood. Depending on how big your trees are and how thick it is 400 cords would be a pretty light cut on 65 acres.

If the seller has engaged a consulting forester to manage the sale, I would talk to the forester. If the seller has not engaged a forester to manage the sale, I would recommend that you talk with a forester to understand the legalities. In KY, there is a whole set of rules and regulations around restoration and reclamation after the timber harvest. Can not remember all of the details. However, if the logger does not do all of the work as part of the contract, the land owner has potential to be held responsible. If you are seriously interested in the property, it would be worth your time and $$$'s to hire an expert familiar with your area and your laws / regulations.

Just my dos colones...

It really depends on the stand densities. It’s going to amount to a significant amount of wood per acre for that area so I’d want to know up front what’s going to happen. If the harvest is part of a management plan written up by a forester then you need to speak with that individual. If there isn’t a forester involved and the current owner is trying to liquidate before selling, then you know they’re going to high grade the $hit out of it. As part of a management plan things like slash height, skid trail width, damage to the residual stand, ect... can all be stipulated. Unless you’re willing to risk buying land that looks like a bomb went off on it I’d be doing my homework first. Think of a forester as an attorney for the land owner.

The land owner could be held resposible for what, run off, cleaning slash, reforresting, ?
You can be forced to replant your own land? What if you want to grow rye grass and alfalfa or oats to raise a few beefs on?

Your 65 acres will be nothing but stumps dirt and weeds. If that’s how you want to go make sure they stump it and burn all the slash and grade it or you’ll be buying a headache beyond what I assume you’re looking for.

It’s not going to be low impact thinning, it’ll change the landscape and potentially drainage (unless done right) for years to come.

I don't know if they do controlled burns up there, but that cleans up slash pretty well, improves the soil and habitat as well. If it's going to be a hunting property, you may want to use burns in your management anyway.

I don't know if you have the option to buy the property before it's logged, but if you do, I don't think the logging contract would still be valid if you, the new owner, aren't party to the contract. I had a similar issue on some property I bought 20 years ago. Logging contract was no longer valid because it wasn't a contract with me, the current owner. If there was an issue with that, the logger would probably have to take that up with previous owner. Obviously best to settle all that before you buy it.

Its 2018 boys.There will not be a logger with a chainsaw.The logger will run a processor that will limb the sticks as they are cut.Nothing goes to waste anymore.All the trimmings will be processed and go into a van for pellets.It will look like a park.

Depending on the loger of course,but many loggers damage most of the trees they don't cut.
They get paid to get the trees down and out.

Some will leave one hell of a mess and prior agreementsare hard to enforce depending on the logger and the state forestry's active involvement.

May be a deal like many used to do here, buy reasonable (or cheap land ) with good timber.
Tiber it to bare dirt,sell it at lowered real estate value because they got to the profit level with just the timbering

I hope your purchase works out for you. It looks great from the air.

Some things to consider and to get some perspective on what "400 cords" is, I'd consider hiring an UNBIASED forester to walk the property with you and tell you what they see and to look over the contract.

Foresters for the logging company want to squeeze every penny out off the property to be cut and won't leave anything marketable if they can. They sure won't have your best interests in mind...

You might get help free of charge from Department of Lands or USDA. Both have foresters on staff and offer services to landowners. I've gotten great info and plenty of on the ground time from Department of Lands foresters. All free of charge.

Find out when the contract ends. The timber buyer might have 10 years to get all the trees off the property, if you read the fine print. You don't want to get into a deal like that.

Who cleans it up and to what extent?

Lots of things to find out, but if you move carefully and stay informed you might get a great deal on land and a house.

I went thru the KML KY Master Logger class a number of years ago when I was running a sawmill as a business. Biggest concern is erosion control to ensure no issues with siltation of streams and estuaries. Can not remember all of the particulars. But, off top of my head for KY, ensuring that no tops fall into or low over a stream or water course. Ensuring water bars and diversions are cut into any logging roads. Seeding and erosion control measures are in place after the harvest.

The one thing I remember from the Forestry Forum discussions was that there is a world of ways to get screwed or taken to the cleaners before, during, and after a timber sale. Hence, if you are not personally familiar with rules and regs in your area, talk to a forester.