Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Savage Collectors Savage MHG bayonet info

I recently got a issue of a August 1985 Gun Report, and in it they had an article titled "The mystery of the Canadian Savage M99 Bayonet" By Alfred H. Savage.

Here is the article,im sure some have seen it bofore.

Thanks Don, this is really interesting. David

I don't remember seeing that, cool info!

Now, who is/was Alfred H. Savage?

An interesting fellow who among other things, collected bayonets.
Thanks for the post Don!

http://www.legacy.com/obituaries/edmontonjournal/obituary.aspx?pid=174053706

Thanks Don, I had never seen the article before. Good info.

John

I have data on about 10% of the MHG rifle production.

To add a little to the history using the above data, the first shipment of rifles 12/30/1914 appears to have had rack/member numbers up to around 500.

There was a later shipment made 4/10/1915 with rack numbers mainly in the 800's and 900's with the highest I've seen being 1015.

There is another group with serials in between and rack numbers in the 500, 600, 700 ranges. I don't have enough shipping info to tell if they shipped as one group or multiples groups.

The musket barrel was marked with the caliber in the standard location which was covered by the upper forearm wood. After around serial 165500, round the end of the 1st shipment, the caliber was added to the top of the receiver ring where it would be visible.

From the data it appears that the rifles were ordered in batches. The butt plates were numbered and randomly attached to rifles within that production group.

As a member you had the option to purchase a Savage musket or provide your own rifles. Therefore not all MHG guns are Savages. It is thought that around 800 Savage muskets were produced with member/rack numbers going to over 1000.

I've read that all MHG gun had the members name and date engraved on them. I think that was optionally added by the member at a later date. I've seen engraving on the receiver and info stamped in the butt stock, with no standardized format.

As for the bayonets, I would like to know more about them being numbered to the rifles. My bayonet is not numbered. Was each rifle shipped with a bayonet? Were they numbered at the factory or was it added by the member? Were there leftovers that were sold in the USA and for what purpose...to fit what? There have been a few leftover blades show up over the years. If anyone has or knows of a bayonet that can be checked for a number I would appreciate knowing what is found.

I have read that many of the MHG rifles were converted to sporting rifles after the war. This is true of the bayonets, also and probably with a much smaller survival rate.

I remember a bayonet selling a few years ago, don't recall the price. I finally sold my musket 4 years ago, was never lucky enough to find the blade, was told the blades would fetch as much as the rifle. I bought a blade missing the wood parts a few years ago from a guy in Dallas, tinkered with the idea of doing something with the handle, but never did.

Ken, Your blade is resting nicely next to my brothers complete bayonet ! maybe next winter i will take the time to try and complete it. The krag-jorgenson blade looks very close to the savage one,but the aluminum savage bolster is completely different,As far as i can see the savage bayonet was the only one with one grip screw. Don

Cheryl said if anyone wanted the high resolution version ,she could e-mail one.

jthe complete bayonet would be the one thing I would never sell, never say never about one showing up

This is mine Rick but can find no numbers on it

what is your "don't want to sell it price"

Multiple pics of mine appear on p. 54 of my book. It belonged to Blair at that time. It's not for sale. It'll be displayed at the CGCA show in Denver next weekend. There aren't any numbers on it. David

Thanks guy's! We are at 3 for 3 no numbers.

I seem to remember reading somewhere that the scabbards that were made for the bayonet had the number. Tom

You find that over there Graeme? Thought I saw one at the Wellington auctions some years ago maybe this was it

Johno

Mine does not have any numbers either.

Thanks Bill. We are at 5 for 5 with no numbers.

My gut tells me those with numbers were stamped by owners and not factory. There was an MHG with "number matching" bayonet at a show in Orangeville, Ontario a year ago. I should have taken a close look at it. Owner is a Samurai sword expert/ historian who is respected around the world.
Bill

How many different blades styles did they make and how many different handles did they use on the Home Guard Muskets???????

The P. L. Co. may have been The Pacific League. Today known as The Pacific Polo League ( The Vancouver Polo Club). That would explain those Muskets found out here.

Rick99 said he read that many of the MHG Muskets were converted to sporting rifles after The War. These converts must today, be easily identified by the ladder backsight still on them. Military 1903 Springfield , .303 Enfield , Mauser 98' backsites ,and others are strongly attached to the barrel by a large collar and hard to remove, unless the MHG ladder sight was mounted only by a 3/8" dovetail. The step at the muzzle for the bayonet then would be the only identifying feature.

Amazing that Savage had these guns ready to go, and yet didn't use unfinished rifles manufactured earlier with lower serial #'s.

Fug, I had heard there were two different length knife style bayonets, and the early style muskets had a different style bayonet, but i dont remember seeing that anywhere. Don

Well I don't have a don't want to sell price as I just don't want to sell end of story at this time in my life
Last year johno, a big bayonet collector passed away and they put his bayonet's up at auctions each year, took four years to sell the 3000 odd lots
my scabbard has no numbers either

Good stuff mate, did anyone else realize what it was? hope you stole it

Johno

This is from the 1895 catalog


Interesting that here they list 3 bayonets that can be ordered

Johno
Quality remains long after price is forgotten
I paid more than I wanted to. but my friend was sitting next to me ready the hit me if I backed out
I was competing with the Australian buyers

The reason I posted the above pics was that I wondered if there were any sword Bayonets made for the 1895 musket
and to see if anybody had info on the US bayonet and whether these could lead to the confusion on different blade lengths For the MHG rifle

The way the 1895 and 1899 musket front end was constructed it appears that it would only accept an angular (socket) style bayonet.

Were bayonets (not referring to the MHG) actually made? I have not seen or heard of one. Fug would be the best person to ask.
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Back to Fug's question, "How many different blades styles did they make and how many different handles did they use on the Home Guard Muskets???????"

Seems I remember one with a longer blood groove...?
An artical referenced a multi (13?) grooved grip thought to be an experimental version.

What's the answer Fug?

First I have had several bayonets I could never find a number on any of mine or never seen one with a number

As for the handle I have 2 different style and have seen one more style one is the standard wood one is made of aluminum and the other two I have seen were made of some kind of hard rubber

As for the blades all I have seen were the same length but two different blood grove lengths

I have talked to someone who had 1 angular bayonet I have never seen one myself

Fug, can you clarify..."As for the handle I have 2 different style and have seen one more style one is the standard wood one is made of aluminum and the other two I have seen were made of some kind of hard rubber"?

One is standard wood grip with aluminum. (It appears that the aluminum piece is all one piece that fits around 3 sides of the blade and has an insert for a handle)

Are you saying that the other had the aluminum piece with with hard rubber grips and one was all aluminum?

The one I have in front of me has an all Aluminum handle with the correct lock piece looks like the wooden handle but it's metal

the rubber one looked the same as the wooden one but it was rubber maybe bakerlight it sold I think for $50 bucks at auction

the other rubber one I saw was on a table at a show in N.H.

The one I have with the metal handle has the short blood grove hope this helps

Thanks Doug.

Anyone got one in the silverware drawer gathering dust? LOL

If they keep changing the gun laws down here that's all i'll have left
They started by banning all military style semi autos but the laws also included
bolt, lever, pump & semi auto sporting rifles that could be fitted with a mag of more than 10 shot
the govt have paid out over 64 million on the buy back so far
my 99's are safe at present but Henry's, yellow boys, Winchester levers etc that hold more than 10 shots
in the tube have been bent in half
22 pump, semi auto, lever and bolt with tube mags of more than 10 shot are allowed to be fitted with a pin
welded in to reduce the mag to 10 shot

Any removable magazine rifle can have a magazine that holds more than 10 shots. Just have to build one that fits.

Politicians are stupid all across the world.

Sooooooo.

In the 1895 catalog the "303 US Government" is listed as a caliber option that seems to be different than the "303 Savage listings"

Makes me think 30-40 Krag

What that all about?

I think the " .303 U.S.Gov" is a misprint and should be .30 U.S. (.30-40 Krag) to match the rifles on the earlier page.

AWS was hoping for a government contract. I'm kind of glad he didn't.

Well that kind of what I was thinking as well. He wasn't going to make 1 or 10 30-40's. He needed an order of 1000 to justify a tool up. Would have been interesting though to see some 30-40's. It seems like he thought it would work in his gun if he could have found the business?

Pure speculation on my behalf.

Are there any prototypes of that configuration? Any documentation of trying to go that way?

I wonder if they would've had a .30-40 in the lineup if they would've bothered with the .300? Personally I would've opted for the .30-40.

99Guy,

If you go to the MiscGoodThings sticky above and go to the bottom part of page three you will find photos of one in the NY Military Trials posting. (Photos by David Royal)

I don't see page 3 in MiscGoodThings sticky or my photo of what we think was the NY guard trials rifle that is at the factory. It's pictured on pages 13 and 14 of my book.

Sorry David. The NY trials posting is at the bottom of the MiscGoodThings. From there you have to click the old NY Trials link and go to page three.

...and it is easier to just go to page 13 & 14 of your book.