Home Forums Reloading Big Game Rifles SAKO A7 6.5 Creed-Disappointing Chrono Results

Hey ALL....Used Nosler #8 Guide...New Hornady Case... Fed 210..140 Partition @ 2.790" OAL Max Load of H4350 41.0gr...YES...I started lower and worked up...no pressure signs..absolute stellar accuracy...well under .5" at 100yds...B U T ...TWO 10 shot strings only 2590fps & 2595fps..!!!!!! A full 100fps slower than Nosler Book... PAGE 258...well..now to chase another 100fps..????
This rifle has a 24.3" bbl...expected a little more velocity that that....jeez...100fps slower..????!!! C'mon all...what other powders to try..????
Thanks To All..
Pete

I would be inclined to try IMR 4451. Here is a recipe from Enduron:

Case: Hornady Twist: 1:8" Primer: Federal 210M, Large Rifle Match Barrel Length: 24" Trim Length: 1.910"
BULLET WEIGHT
140 GR. HDY A-MAX
Starting Loads/Maximum Loads
Manufacturer Powder Bullet Diam.
C.O.L.
Grs.
Vel. (ft/s)
Pressure
IMR IMR 4451 .264" 2.820" 37.0 2,414 47,700 PSI 41.1 2,670 60,700 PSI

Note that they used the Federal 210M primer.

I found H4350 exceptionally slow. RL16, -17 and -26 all much faster and equally accurate based on only a few loads. RL17 with 140 ELDs was exceptional. .2-.4” at 2685. My 140 Partition load with 43gn RL16 was good for 2770 out of a 22” barrel.

IMR 4451 (41.6gn) only got me 2550 with a 140 ELD-M.

HEY ALL...THANKS FOR THE HELP...I have both FED 210M and RL 16...ok...more work to do..
Thanks Again..
Pete

Have an A7 Roughtech Pro 6.5 CM. I shot some Hor factory 143's and chrono'd at 2600 but accurate. Now shooting 142 ABLR w/R17 at 2750 which are just as accurate (1/2 moa). I like this much better and a big buck was DRT last fall. Mac

Unless you are stretching beyond 600 yards, it doesn't matter with that load. If so, a Partition isn't the choice anyway...

Sometimes slow barrels just happen. I worked up 06 loads in a Tikka and found a lovely accuracy node for 165s at several grains heavier than new manuals list. Velocity was a dissapointing 2830fps. Having said, it regularly shoots into 1/2” with accubonds. Slow barrels just happen sometimes....

I like the 120 Barnes TTSX. It will kill as well as a 140 Partition. It will get you more speed.

If you’re looking for speed reloaded 26 is hard to beat. I’m getting great accuracy / consistency with Rl 26 and velocity is around 200 FPS faster than my go to H4350 load.

HEY hank & obie458....can you guys send me your loads ...??? If you dont want to put them here...can you send me a PM..?
Thanks...
Pete

Nosler book numbers are usually high. I'm a Nosler fan but you can't go by their speeds. Look at the IMR and Hodgdon website and go by their numbers in comparison. They have your load listed at 2660 fps. H4350 is listed as the 2nd fastest powder behind Hybird 100V at 2736 fps. Nothing in their manual gets you the speed you want.

You may just have a little slower barrel. You can chase the 100 fps all you want with that bullet and it isn't going to happen with out exceeding max by a fair amount and then it still probably won't happen.

There is no sense in chasing 100fps. There is nothing to gain unless you're doing long range shooting 600+. I would take an extremely accurate barrel that is a little slower over a fast barrel any day.

Stay safe.

My 22" LH Tikka 6.5 seems slow also with RL 26 and 143 GR see pressure at 2600 ?

Easily get above 2700 with other 22" 6.5 Ceedmoor,s and RL 26 which is slow to show pressure.

Going to try other powders and see if its a slow barrel based on limited testing.

For my purposes, if I had that going I'd be in high cotton.

I get 2722 fps with 41.5 gr of H4350 and 140 gr Hornady Interlock. It shoots .33 @ 100 yds. I've been tinkering with the 120 gr Sierra Pro Hunter. Using 44.5 gr of H4350 I'm getting 3000 fps and it's shooting 1/2 moa groups at 200 yds. Rifle is a Ruger Hawkeye All Weather with a 26" barrel.

IMO, Tikkas are notoriously long throated, hence the slower than published velocities. I have never had an issue, loading for 6-7 different Tikkas, in proceeding cautiously above Nosler's max load data, watching the chrono of course.

HEY ALL...I just measured,,,JGRaider above...my barrel will allow an OAL of 2.875"...!!! I used Nosler's OAL of 2.790"....sooo....that 140 Partition was jumpin'
.085"....could that cause the slow velocity...??
Thanks again ALL..
Pete

Made my dummy cartridges to seat at max COAL seated just short of that, still see pressure with RL 26 before expected velocity, more testing to verify? Loaded for 4 other 6.5 Creed Moors with same data and all are faster same barrel length with no pressure signs.

Put more powder in until you "find pressure." Then back off.

Or just go hunting and don't worry about any of it.

I had good accuracy with H4350 and 140's, very slow really. I went to RL 26 & am getting 2825 with the 140 Partition with a 22" RAP.

147 eldm, Lapua brass, CCI BR-4, 45.6 gr RL26, col of 2.880”. Getting around 2900fps from a 28” barrel.

I recommend NEVER going above published max. The bullet manufactures and powder companies are experts on pressure. It make absolutely no sense to ever exceed maximum. If you study ballistics you will find that 50 fps or 100 fps faster is meaningless out to 600. Exceeding max even if you can't identify pressure issues is harder on your rifle and shortens case life.

Nosler lists minimum speed of 1800 fps for their bullet to expand properly. So using this as an example

Your load at 2595 fps will carry 1814 fps to 475 yards with 1023 ft lbs.
Getting to 2695 fps will carry 1821 fps to 525 yards with 1031 ft lbs.

So that 100 fps gets you an extra 50 yards well beyond normal hunting distances.

Makes perfect sense to exceed maximum manual loads for cartridges such as the 6.5 Swede or 7x57; those are loaded rather anemic for the obvious reason within the manuals. I can appreciate the meaningless from an external ballistic and velocity viewpoint, but from an internal ballistic perspective I want my slow burn rate rifle powders burning around 60 ksi rather than upper 40's/lower 50's.

For people with your knowledge level fine. But I don't agree with telling people with lessor knowledge to exceed recommended maximums and possibly exceed maximum pressure. jmho.

So what if Nosler's load data has different (higher) max loads than Hodgdon's load data? Which one are you going to use? Personally, that's what a chrono is for during load development. Can't have speed without pressure.

Notice he’s shooting a partition which I believe to be a flat base. Had 53 grain SMK going 175 fps slower than a 52 for same rifles and powder charge. Long story short the guy from Sierra said it is not uncommon as a flat base will have more bearing surface than a boat tail of same weight or close. Thus the lower velocity. Seeings how Nosler and Sierra tend to clump similar weight bullets, but different profiles to general data I can see this might have some bearing.

HEY ALL..I appreciate all the help and replies....I generally like to use the heaviest bullets available at the highest speeds attainable....THIS THIS Sako A7 is rather HEAVY...over 9lbs scoped....
I just cannot see lugging this boat anchor around when I have a AR 6.5 Grendel @6 3/4lbs scoped that will equal its speed with 125 Partitions with a 16"bbl....THIS Sako A7 is going down the road....
Thanks to all for your help and insight...
Pete

I have a Sako 22-250 that could be nicknamed Linda Lovelace. It takes top charges plus to get perking. Simple really, it's the Weatherby freebore effect applied to a standard cartridge.

This is what is wrong with the "bandwagon" 6.5 Creedmoor shooting. The cartridge was developed for long range shooting and a 140 grain Partition isn't a long range bullet. If you want Creedmoor performance, shoot long range with the stuff they designed for it. If you want to kill something, just use a 270 and a 130 grain bullet at 3200 fps and you will kill anything the Creedmoor will shoot at and within hunting distances, there will be no disappointment with a nearly 100 year old cartridge.

For a couple of reasons I like to keep my powder consumption fifteen to twenty grains below 60 grains a shot.

The creedmoor threads sure bring out stupid replies.

lol he's loading the wrong bullet so he should just shoot a 270 instead. Makes perfect sense.

Shot my Christensen Mesa LR in 6.5CM this weekend with my standby load from other 6.5CMs - Hornady case, Fed GM210, 140gr A-Max, 42.1gr H4350, 2.825" COAL, 2731FPS average across 20rnds, ES 9 fps, and .312"@100yds.

LMBO, put a dang bullet thru vitals at 2600 mv and ask the animal if it feels less sick. So many get caught up in mv - and in reality, all the above loads will kill game DEAD. Not shooting T-Rex.

Want a lot of speed? Shoot more Powder (a magnum class).....if you don't mind the blast, recoil, barrel wear, and expense. Really that simple.

Folks will say, Pressure = Velocity..........you can't have velocity w/o the pressure. Many variables affect...drop pressure i.e. throating.

Handloading is tailoring YOUR load to YOUR firearm. Books are a good reference.

Find accuracy, and enjoy! 2600 fps mv bullets do not bounce off game. If they do, let me know. 100 fps = 68 mph. To ME, who cares. Not game.

Pdman: I have been handloading for a long time and chronographing loads for nearly as long.
100 F.P.S. lower than "book" is nothing!
It could be due to a multitude of factors including THE RIFLE!
Also how far in front of the muzzle is the center of your chronographs readers?
There is a formula for figuring the loss in velocity from the muzzle to that mid-point then you add that loss (difference) to get true muzzle velocities (like the books show).
Anyway with that accuracy and that speed I would be quite happy.
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

I have a AR 6.5 Grendel @6 3/4lbs scoped that will equal its speed with 125 Partitions with a 16"bbl..

Now you're talking. What load did you use for that?

It isn't about loading the wrong bullet there Einstein, it is about using the wrong cartridge for something it wasn't intended.

Factory 143 Hornady ELDX loads chrono at 2600 FPS so thinking I have a slow barrel.

Any one else chrono there Factory Hornady 143 Gr load in there 22" Tikka 6.5 Cr Moor if so post speed, or speed with comparable loads.
My other 22" 6.5 CM are quite a bit faster similar loads.


Tikka T3 X LH 6.5 Creed moor 22"



Speeds with other loads Hornady Brass

Fact Horn 6.5 Creed Moor Precision Hunter 143 ELDX 2600 FPS

42 Gr H 4350 143 Horn ELDX 2618 FPS Rem 9 1/2

42 GR RL 17 143 Horn ELDX 2677 FPS show pressure Max reduce Rem 9 1/2

41.8 Gr RL 16 143 Horn ELDX 2667 FPS show pressure Max reduce Rem 9 1/2

46.5 GR RL 26 143 Horn ELDX 2642 FPS Max show slight pressure signs CCI 200

42.5 GR RL 17 Barnes 127 GR LRX 2855 FPS Fed 215 Same speed as my other 22" Cr Moors?

I get 2725-2750 w/R17 and 142 ABLR out of A7 24". 4350 did not produce nor did 143 ELDX. If you don't like the 2725+ level then try and get more velocity w/R26. Otherwise sell the thing and put us all out of the misery of this thread.

Pretty much it in a nutshell.

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