Home Forums Reloading Big Game Rifles If you use collet and body dies...

...which die do you use first. And why?

I typically use the collet die first since it deprimes, and I don't want the spent primers still in place when I measure to set up the "shoulder bump" amount.

I de-prime with a dedicated de-primer, tumble with SS media, lube the cases, run them through the body die, wet tumble them for 15-30 minutes to get the lube off and polish the die marks off the cases, then I neck size them.

Then trim, chamfer, de-burr, etc.

Why?...I have no idea if it's right, but I assume I get a more complete and uniform shoulder bump if I do it when the neck can take up more room in the neck of the die. I also can clean all the case lube off without worrying if my necks are getting dinged in the tumbler. That may be a completely asinine conclusion that makes no sense, but that's how I've reconciled it in my feeble mind...

I'm open to admitting I'm wrong and open to change if I'm doing it incorrectly.

Me too, that's why I've asked. Thanks for the responses so far.

Mathman's answer makes sense, but those reasons wouldn't apply to my own situation because I have a body die for each rifle. Once set, I don't screw with any adjustments---unless I find that I really do need to tweak something (and that HAS happened).

Body (if necessary) first, then collet.

Collet first to deprime also, then body, followed by trimming if necessary.

I do the body first then tumble to remove the lube. Collet die last which also deprimes and makes sure the flash hole is free of tumbling media.

When if ever are any of you setting the shoulder back?

Ditto. A primer can give a false measurement.


It depends. Generally I start thinking about it every 4th firing but if the cases chamber easily and I'm not feeling an increased resistance lowering the bolt that can wait for 5 or 6 firings.

+ one on what jim said.

Ed

What I'm trying to decide is whether bumping the shoulder on a neck-sized case disturbs the neck more than sizing the neck on a shoulder-bumped case disturbs the shoulder.

Man, that's a bear of a sentence. Might hafta read it more than once.

I just can't imagine that it makes any difference at all...but I think bumping shoulders first would be better if there's even an iota of difference.

Doesn't matter....

I do it either way, same results..

I finish loading and assemblying the round, and when I'm done, I then throw them all in the tumbler...
to take off the Amzoil lube...

only priority I give, if you are going to anneal the neck.. do that before neck sizing the case...
and I also remove the old primer first...but that I don't think matters that much.

I anneal necks after every 4th shot on the brass.. and "the lot"s history is kept on a 3 x 5 card
in a zip lock bag...

got some "lots" of brass, that have 40 and 50 reloads on them....never see an issue...

like many others I use to overthink this sort of stuff.. not so much anymore..

Ditto again.

I've measured case neck runout after sizing then again after bumping the shoulder and runout doesn't change one iota (iota = 1 smidgen of a thousandth). Have done this several times on different cases to verify. Can't say from my own experience going the other way since I've always neck sized then bumped.

Bingo. Maybe if I had better measuring equipment I wouldn't ever have thought to ask this question. My stuff only goes down to the thousandth.

Thanks Jim!

If I’m using the body die/collet die combo I set the shoulder back every firing. I typically shoot for .002” shoulder bump with the body die & once it’s set up I set the lock ring and forget it so I’m not worried about whether a primer gives false measurements because I’m not measuring them. Consistency is the name of the game so if I’m going to do something I do it every time, not every 4 or 5 times.

I'm not a lock ring setter for several reasons.

I'd be interested in what those reasons are.

For one example, I load for a bunch of different 308's, eight or nine of my own and a couple more for friends. There's enough variability in the chambers to cause me to adjust for it.

Another: For 308 there are types of brass that react differently to a given size die setting. Run some thin WW hulls through a setting that moves heavy walled, tough LC brass just enough and the WW will be shorter than you had wanted.

Even barring these particular examples, I find it easy to believe that some ring lockers aren't getting quite the consistent batch-to-batch results they think they are. Much earlier in my handloading career I was a ring locker.

Thanks. I see some pretty valid reasons there.

I have purposefully avoided owning more than one rifle chambered for a chosen cartridge...with only a couple of exceptions. For those exceptions I have dedicated bump dies for each rifle. I also tend to stick with certain brands of brass, too...some Nosler, some Norma, etc. but each rifle is fed only one headstamp. My ARs get fed a variety of brass makes, but I FL size for them anyway. I'm sure there are other folks who'd be well served to heed your advice, though.

I'll pick a nit about FL sizing terminology. I believe in your instance FL sizing means sizing to like new or near new dimensions. I use FL dies quite often, bumping the shoulders back just a couple of thousandths, still the full length of the brass is sized. So we are both full length sizing.