Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters Mule Deer-->280 Rem. Velocities!!!???

Does that edge make a difference inside 450 yards, a noticable difference?

Shoot darn near anything through the lungs inside of 450 yards with just about any cartridge with the appropriate bullet and it will die.




P

Yep even with a 150 grain flat based bullet out of a 308.

Or a 140 Partition out of a 7mm-08 into a mulie at 541 yards.





P

Be nice.

Surely agree.

I agree with WiFowler on the Nosler data. Just for reference, I am getting 3200 with a 140 BT and RL 23 in my 24", Lilja barrel 280AI. Don't recall the charge weight off hand.

I finally have my Douglas XX 26" barreled 280 AI Remington 700 put together; as it so happened, the rifle was complete the same day the reloading dies arrived.

I've not shot it over a chrono -- yet. I'm wondering where I should stop velocity-wise, since I don't have a way of measuring true pressure, I would use your estimate of velocity as one of the end points for maximum loads. Not the maximum loads is where I want to end up, but will likely be looking for best accuracy in the 3,000 +/- fps range. I'm guessing ~ 3200 - 3250 fps max in a 26" barrel???

I realize the cases and primers I am using may be different than yours. Plus the throat on my rifle will likely be different, but still your estimate will be helpful.

Finally as a side note: I don't appreciate the 40 - 50% extra cost of buying 280 AI brass, therefore I am fire-forming and breaking the barrel in after dyna bore treatment at the same time. I suspect/hope that some day the AI brass will be the same as the non-AI version.

Thanks for all the help you've given in this forum and your writings.

Bugger:

In addition to MD's guidance buy a Nosler manual. The loads given for the 280AI match closely to the results on my chronograph. Very nice...

When I originally started shooting the 280AI (pre-SAAMI) velocities were generally higher, sometimes much higher than Nosler lab results, as most handloaders depended on case pressure "signs" to one degree or another. That is probably true of every wildcat birthed.

It was unwise then and even more so today with the manuals and chronographs widely available.

I've had a few 280's & a few 270's; never a 280 AI.

The only exact common bullet weight that I use in both the 280 & the 270 is 150 gr.

With that bullet in both guns I get 2950-2975 in a 24" barrel with the 280 & the same in a 22" barreled 270. With a 24" barreled 270, I can get 3000.

But since I have no actual pressure measuring device, it just seems to me that I have to lean harder on the 280 to get there.............but there are no mechanical signs of being overpressure, just a feeling.

I do get 3050 with 140's in the 280 with a 24" barrel, 3120 with a 130 out of the 22" 270, 3150 with a 24" barrel.

For the 280, RL-19 with 140's, RL-15 with 120's & RL-22 / MRP with 150's & 160's (RL-26 might be better today)

For the 270, RL-22 /MRP for 130's & 150's

MM

I have the last two editions.

Bugger,

I'd estimate you can easily and safely those sorts of velocities from your 26-inch barrel.

Thanks MD. It has a 1 in 9 twist and I’ll probably be looking at Accubond or Berger or another slippery bullet. Somewhere I recall reading that the LR version of the Accubond doesn’t penetrate/hold together as well as the “standard” version.

It’s little worry though since my plans for this rifle comprises mainly for coyotes and I shoot them when I can and when it’s legal. Although their hides are worth $’s in the winter I desire their demise for the sake of pheasants.

I drove within 50 yards of one this morning. I had a 44 locked in the console, but I was already late. The Navajo would have told me that was a warning, coyotes crossing your path. I would have liked to have warned hi back...

Mule Deer is getting 2950 with 168’s using R26! That powder will give around 100 FPS more than other powders, I believe.

I have had several standard 280’s, one RCBS version, and two AI’s. I have had many 270’s with 25” and 26” barrels. I also experimented with lengthened the throats in all the cases.

I have never been able to get 7mm/140’s to reach the same velocities as 270/130’s in the standard cases. Several times I had standard 280’s rechambered to improved chambers. At equal pressures the gains were 35-50 FPS.

So a standard 280, throated a little, with an extra 1.5” of barrel gives what the improved case offers.

I cut longer barrels to 22” and always there is about 25 FPS per inch. So a 26” barrel will add about 100 over a 22”.

PS I never kept a 25 or 26 inch barrel. They were too clunky to pack around in rough country.

Most of my rifles are 22", some as short as 18", a few magnums are 24". This is the only 26". Long barrels are not so bad on the prairie or in the open. I have a couple rifles for the woods and for rough country.

I sure wouldn't want them to be all the same!

Now down to what vcan I hit with this rifle

With a 168 gr Match Grade VLD hunting bullet by Berger at 3250 fps with a side wind of 15 mph, sighted in at 200 yards, scope height 1" above bore. 15 mph side wind my phone ap (named Shooter) says

100 yards +1.3", drift = .6"
200 yards 0", drift=2.6"
300 yards -5.4", drift=5.9"
400 yards -15.2", drift =10.7"
500 yards -30", drift = 17.1"

Consider the size of the chest of a coyote - (main purpose for this rifle) and guessing the wind speed by the grass and the leaves on the trees - I guess 20 mph side wind then the error of my guess would result in:

200 yard drift = 3.4" (error of 3.4-2.6= .8")
300 yard drift = 7.8" (error of 7.8-5.9"=1.9")
400 yard drift = 14.3" (error of 14.3-10.7=3.6")
500 yard drift = 22.8"(error of 22.8-17.1"=5.7")

add 3/4 MOA accuracy and the error at 400 yards is approximately 1.5" more or 5.1"

I would only need to know the distance. My pnone ap BTW gives the information on drop and drift every 50 yards when set max at 500 yards.

Using a 162 gr SST at 3300 fps

the 500 yard drift is still only 19.1" at 500 yards with a cross wind of 15 mph.

So some will probably ask me why are you using such heavy bullets for a coyote? Why such a big cartridge? Why such a long barrel?

My phone ap doesn't have 168 grain Nosler Accubonds so I can't get those readings, but with those, any game in the 49 states, maybe 50 should be covered by the 280 AI.

If I were to have a 280 AI for everything from coyotes on up the barrel length and the velocity would drop some. But as for an all-around rifle, it seems that the 280 AI would fit my needs.

(The 280 Remington has been one of my all time favorite cartidges and I have two with 22" barrels.)

Bugger,

I'm confused. Are you talking about getting those speeds with those bullets in a 280 AI? I can't see it. You may be able to squeak 3K out of those bullets, but little more. If you wanted to shoot 3250-3300, I would suggest Berger's 140 VLDH in your 280 AI. In fact, I'd recommend it over the heavies anyway, if you are only planning to shoot to 500 or so.

And I am curious how you set up your phone app. I ran your numbers in the app that I use, and got different values. I've also never seen a scope height that low. The lowest scope mounts I use still put the center line of the scope 1.7" or so over the center axis of the bore.

You're right on the height. I hastily threw that together this morning. My 280AI has a 26" barrel. If JB's getting almost 3,000 fps with a 22" barrel with 168 grain bullets, then perhaps 3,300 fps with 162 grain is in the ball park. What do you think? I will likely never load that high a pressure though and will stop when the accuracy is best. Those numbers are possible, I think. But if I were to be loading that high a velocity I do have a 7mm RM also with a 26" barrel. I was talking possibilities, not where I normally would load.

Tag

My .280 Rem. is a custom based on a 1909 Argentine Mauser by DWM. A 24" barrel and woodwork by Sterling Davenport. I've been playing with a now long discontinued power, Winchester magnum Rifle (WMR). It's has given great results in velocity and accuracy in my .270 Win. and .300 Win. Mag. so I decided to give it a try in the .280.
I used the data given in Winchester's little load booklet #15. I started 10percent below and worked up to the maximum in the booklet. (57.8 gr./2795 FPS/56,800 P.S.I.) My velocity was 2907 FPS average with the Speer 160 gr. Grand Slam, two three shot groups average .80". Loads were worked up a half grain at at time and chronographed while closely watching each increase per charge change. Primers stayed round and case head and pressure ring measurement were within allow tolerances.
Why WMR? Mostly because I have quite a large amount on hand, I figured it'd work very well in the .270 and .300 Win Mag. so why not the .280? Funny thing is it is a total disaster in the 30-06. Believe me I tried. Methinks I'll be taking that .280 on my next elk hunt.
Paul B.