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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 131,546
Campfire Sage
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Campfire Sage
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 131,546 |
Those who oppose the killing of children in the womb are rights advocates. This position is therefore 100% consistent with being a rights advocate with respect to the right to keep and bear arms. Yours is the inconsistent collection of positions.
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Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 29,786
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 29,786 |
Those who oppose the killing of children in the womb are rights advocates. This position is therefore 100% consistent with being a rights advocate with respect to the right to keep and bear arms. Yours is the inconsistent collection of positions. Exactly the same could be said of those that wish to ban firearms ownership. "If it will save one child", I have seen that repeatedly lambasted here and now you use the exact same argument. It is disingenuous and deceitful. Mainly to yourself.
These are my opinions, feel free to disagree.
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Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 29,786
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 29,786 |
You are just another control freak that cannot stand not getting your own way, and for those that chant "religious conviction" then know that your religious convictions are the same as your personal freedoms in that they end at the tip of your nose...after all, you lot would be very upset if you were forced to acquiesces to the Muslim belief system.
What you are doing here is forcing your personal agenda on others, and doing your level best to bring the full force of the law down on them...I thought you lot abolished slavery, or is that only for men.
These are my opinions, feel free to disagree.
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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 131,546
Campfire Sage
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Campfire Sage
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 131,546 |
Sounds like you're trying to convince yourself of something.
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Joined: May 2008
Posts: 488
Campfire Member
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Campfire Member
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 488 |
You are just another control freak that cannot stand not getting your own way, and for those that chant "religious conviction" then know that your religious convictions are the same as your personal freedoms in that they end at the tip of your nose...after all, you lot would be very upset if you were forced to acquiesces to the Muslim belief system.
What you are doing here is forcing your personal agenda on others, and doing your level best to bring the full force of the law down on them...I thought you lot abolished slavery, or is that only for men.
Yep, the unborn are subhuman just like the Jews, isn't that right JSTUART?
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Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 29,786
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 29,786 |
You are just another control freak that cannot stand not getting your own way, and for those that chant "religious conviction" then know that your religious convictions are the same as your personal freedoms in that they end at the tip of your nose...after all, you lot would be very upset if you were forced to acquiesces to the Muslim belief system.
What you are doing here is forcing your personal agenda on others, and doing your level best to bring the full force of the law down on them...I thought you lot abolished slavery, or is that only for men.
Yep, the unborn are subhuman just like the Jews, isn't that right JSTUART? I do not recall EVER calling Jews "subhuman" so please do not lie and put words in my mouth.
These are my opinions, feel free to disagree.
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Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 29,786
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 29,786 |
Sounds like you're trying to convince yourself of something. Unlike yourself I know well what my convictions are, and I damn well make sure I live by them...I do not however feel the need to make others do as I want.
These are my opinions, feel free to disagree.
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Joined: May 2008
Posts: 488
Campfire Member
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Campfire Member
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 488 |
I do not recall EVER calling Jews "subhuman" so please do not lie and put words in my mouth.
Oh gotcha, unless we're talking unborn Jews right? You do realize to be pro-abortion you have to consider the unborn to be less than human right? That's the same logic the Nazis used to justify their murder as well. It is morally wrong to kill someone because they inconvenience you, period.
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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 131,546
Campfire Sage
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Campfire Sage
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 131,546 |
Sounds like you're trying to convince yourself of something. Unlike yourself I know well what my convictions are, and I damn well make sure I live by them...I do not however feel the need to make others do as I want. Unless they're unable to protest what's being done to them.
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Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 29,786
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 29,786 |
Sounds like you're trying to convince yourself of something. Unlike yourself I know well what my convictions are, and I damn well make sure I live by them...I do not however feel the need to make others do as I want. Unless they're unable to protest what's being done to them. Still the same argument the left spruiks when they want your firearms, and I notice that you steadfastly defend against that which affects you personally.
These are my opinions, feel free to disagree.
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Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 29,786
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 29,786 |
I do not recall EVER calling Jews "subhuman" so please do not lie and put words in my mouth.
Oh gotcha, unless we're talking unborn Jews right? You do realize to be pro-abortion you have to consider the unborn to be less than human right? That's the same logic the Nazis used to justify their murder as well. It is morally wrong to kill someone because they inconvenience you, period. No I don't...what I do have to realise is that my opinion and the opinion of everyone else has absolutely no relevance or bearing upon the decision as it is in the hands of the woman whose body it is. Not yours, not mine, not the woman next door...SOLELY in the hands of the woman making the decision about her body and future.
These are my opinions, feel free to disagree.
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Joined: May 2005
Posts: 16,554
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 16,554 |
Let's just go back to old Roman law, birth is irrelevant. Don't like your kid? Just kill him and try again. Or keep him and sell him as a slave.
The key elements in human thinking are not numbers but labels of fuzzy sets. -- L. Zadeh
Which explains a lot.
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Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 21,952
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 21,952 |
Nope, I just hold certain truths to be "self-evident". The fact that some view it as a religious persecution and not universal is either a commie, someone with an agenda, a Nazi or someone with a guilty conscience. If it doesnt apply to you, you dont have a problem with it.
I realize this is about Ireland, but I dont have any delusions that plenty have a problem with it even in my town.
If your position was so "self evident" it wouldn't be the minority position in Ireland and the U.S. Its not my "position", its THE basis for independence; something I believe in and something yourself uses as a cloak for self-service.
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Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 29,786
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 29,786 |
Let's just go back to old Roman law, birth is irrelevant. Don't like your kid? Just kill him and try again. Or keep him and sell him as a slave. The law will take exception to you doing that...and rightfully so. But since you hold the law in such high regard you will be pleased to know that abortion is legal.
These are my opinions, feel free to disagree.
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Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 29,786
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 29,786 |
Nope, I just hold certain truths to be "self-evident". The fact that some view it as a religious persecution and not universal is either a commie, someone with an agenda, a Nazi or someone with a guilty conscience. If it doesnt apply to you, you dont have a problem with it.
I realize this is about Ireland, but I dont have any delusions that plenty have a problem with it even in my town.
If your position was so "self evident" it wouldn't be the minority position in Ireland and the U.S. Its not my "position", its THE basis for independence; something I believe in and something yourself uses as a cloak for self-service. Question, how is the man's argument "self serving"?
These are my opinions, feel free to disagree.
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Joined: May 2005
Posts: 16,554
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 16,554 |
Rightfully so? Why? Why does popping out of a hole make such a difference. Here we have it down to what parts can pop out and what parts have to stay in to kill it legally. No rational argument for that. Sophistry a-plenty but no rational argument.
Legal doesn't make it right. Never did, never will.
The key elements in human thinking are not numbers but labels of fuzzy sets. -- L. Zadeh
Which explains a lot.
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Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 29,786
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 29,786 |
Rightfully so? Why? Why does popping out of a hole make such a difference. Here we have it down to what parts can pop out and what parts can't to kill it legally. No rational argument for that. Sophistry a-plenty but no rational argument. You are dissembling and attempting to be cute, you are very well aware that abortion is about the woman's right to govern her own body. And like it or not any that oppose that right to self-governance are treating women as chattel. Slavery was abolished.
These are my opinions, feel free to disagree.
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Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 21,952
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 21,952 |
For some whom others label as "religious" and whose tenets are challenged on the basis of that label, the fundament of their beliefs and practices are not related to a "church" organization and/or a human codified religious doctrine. Their tenets and practices are based on a personal relationship with a God and Savior. Build a case - and related accusations - against that fact, if you will.
The moral tenets of some are derived from such a relationship - while the same or similar moral tenets of others are based on other factors. Nonetheless, those moral tenets are applied to the conduct of lives, and are important. One of those tenets pertains to the murder of defenseless other beings.
There has been a lot of obfuscatory and PC rhetoric applied by those who wish to avoid or deflect from the obvious - like the vapid "right to choose". Of course a woman has the right to control her own body. So be it. That includes the choice keeping it clean and healthy, or being filthy and abusing herself with all sorts of harmful stuff, or doing things somewhere in between. So be it. That includes her decisions about whether or not to enable her pregnancy - or avoid it. So be it. It's her choice
But - does the woman have a right to murder an individual living being she chose to enable - a being that is not herself? For convenience, Hitler murdered many, many Jews - and others. For convenience, Stalin murdered a whole bunch of folks. Pol Pot did much the same - and so have many other powerful figures. Yes - those murders are grand-scale events of murder for convenience. Is a single murder for convenience any less egregious?
Given the current legal frameworks, pregnant women in many places can choose to murder for convenience. How is her convenience any different or more significant than that of Hitler, or Stalin, or Pol Pot, or ??? It appears that the act of willful abortion is as much a mark of destruction for the woman as it is for the child she murders. As a society, we have become complicit. Anyone care to try to form that into "religiosity"?
Okay, now explain how you can justify forcing a woman to bear a child she does not want...it is not your body. That is the problem here, some still see women as chattel. I personally do not want to see abortion become common place and most definitely do not want it to raise it's ugly head in my family...but it is NOT MY choice to make. I don't wanna work, but I sure as hell won't use it as an excuse to kill someone. Of course if I don't wanna work, I will have repercussions. I would EXPECT them. Being responsible/cause/effect 101.... Everyone out there in La-La land breaking windows, dindunuffins, someone gimme a short term fix for my decisions, so I don't have to deal with the repercussions. If it was some dude driving drunk and running over a preschool class for what he did with his body, I would suspect we'd be looking for a short rope and his wallet. They might not even be religious zealots.... Sorry, amidst a sea of prophylactics and pills, designated drivers, I fail to see the whole "chattel" connection.
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Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 14,679
Campfire Outfitter
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OP
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 14,679 |
Okay, now explain how you can justify forcing a woman to bear a child she does not want...it is not your body.
That is the problem here, some still see women as chattel.
I don't know if you heard this or not, it's pretty hi-tek stuff, but we figured out what causes pregnancy! It's called "sex" and every woman knows about it. They know it causes pregnancy. So, unless a woman was raped, she invited a child to form in her womb.
Last edited by Tyrone; 05/29/18.
Politics is War by Other Means
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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Tying the 2nd to abortion is,,,,, well as liberal as it gets...by definition.
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