Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Savage Collectors Savage powder can

Hi all,
Picked up a Savage powder can a short time a go. Curiouse about the label. By miniature lead loads, is that just a reduced load? Wondering if 4 grains of any powder would get a 190 grain 303 far past the muzzle.
I wonder if there was a lighter bullet for this load, no bullet weight is specified.
Looks like Savage had a separate can and powder for full power loads.
Info seems pretty scarce.
Thanks,
Eric

- By miniature lead loads, is that just a reduced load? ... Yes
- I wonder if there was a lighter bullet for this load, no bullet weight is specified. ... most #2 powder loads are 5 gr with a 100 gr lead bullet.
-Looks like Savage had a separate can and powder for full power loads. ... Yes, there was a second powder for standard loads
- Info seems pretty scarce. ... Very. There were different cans styles, different graphics, different powders. What do you have?


None of the powder can books have much on the subject. With the help of others here on the Forum I have acquired info on most can variations. I can help you determine what can you have.

Ok, was Savage making their own powder back then? I seriously doubt it during the first decade after their startup. In turn I wonder whose powder they were re-packaging? A 5 grain charge of Bullseye would be a good all around plinking load with cast bullets, and Bullseye is the longest running powder we have, having been first produced in the 1890's. (I have loaded a bazillion loads of that nature with 155 grain lead bullets in .30 calibers over the last 50 years now. That was my first bullet mold I bought in 1968, and Bullseye and Red Dot were always the powder of choice.)

Thank you for the info Rick99. I had it wrong, not 4 grains, it is 5 grains like you said. The label reads miniature lead cartridges No 4, 30-30 and 303 only. Still surprising no bullet weight is mentioned.
Thank you gnoahhh, I don't have 303 dies yet, but will have to try a load like that in my 30-30.

I have some photos in my phone. Will post as soon as I get a chance to figure the procedure out.

Make a sack full of those loads and have more fun plinking than a sailor in a cathouse after 6 months at sea. Just do not, repeat- do not, use such a light charge of Bullseye (or equivalent) with any jacketed bullets. First off why make plinking loads almost as expensive as "regular hunting" loads? Secondly you run the very real chance of sticking a bullet halfway down the bore. Ask me how I know. (Did it twice long long ago before I got it through my thick head.)

No. Wetteren.

I didn't think they were. I once read that the reason Savage quit marketing ammo is because they were pretty much attacked by the other ammo makers. Having said that, producing powder would have been an enormous task for any maker of firearms. Seems to me that the only reason Winchester got into it was because it came along with Olin when he saved their cookies in the early 30s.

I've heard about the other ammo makers ganging up on Savage, but none of them ever tried to stop making 303 Savage ammo as far as I know. Considering Savage had plans in 1897 to produce their own ammo from Wetteren, I wonder if the ammo mfr story isn't an old wive's tale?

Or maybe it was just a dispute over how much profit Savage was due from Savage branded ammo sales? That seems very possible.

You know its always been my hunch that the 303 Savage just didn't compete well against the 30-30 Winchester. Nobody else ever chambered it and Savage didn't even bother with it in 40/45 Sporter/Super Sporter series - yet they did give their nod to the Winchester cartridge. So I don't think stopping the 303 was ever a big deal in the competitive context of the ammo market. Now stopping all of Savage's ammo production and sales would have been a much bigger deal to their competitors, but I don't know the validity of the story I mentioned above either - its just something I read a long long time ago an in a far far away land.

Savage was brand new in 1894, Winchester was 30 years old and FAMOUS - gun that won the West. It was bad luck for Savage that the 303 Savage came out the same year as the 30 WCF, they really are practically identical.

But it's not that surprising that Winchester and Marlin didn't chamber the 303 Savage when it was from a brand new startup company and they already had one.

Always thought it'd be kind of fun to get an old Winchester and Marlin rechambered into 303 Savage - just for giggle. Wonder how well they'd feed the 303? Hmm.

I think it would be fun just to mess with the Winchester guys! Marlin guys, on the other hand, are cool in my book.

Interesting conversation. I started collecting Savage rifles a couple years ago, or at least that's what I started collecting. IMO no other rifle matches the looks, gracefulness and engineering of the early rifles. To my wife's dismay I am now kinda consumed with anything Savage.

When did Savage stop marketing ammo and powder under their name?

I posted photos of the powder can in the image gallery.

The 1900 catalog states that the 1899 powder version would be shipped. The #1 1899 powder was listed for both the standard and miniature cartridges.

Next variations are the 1901, 1903 and 1911, #1 powder can that states "not for miniature loading". There are at least two other cans prior to the 1899. These are Savage Repeating Arms marked cans.

The new #2 powder, starting in 1901, has the .303 and additional .30-30 loading listed. I think this was the last #2 can produced. This is your can style. Your can is in excellent condition. Many of the cans have rusted under the paper label making them very hard to read.

The #2 powder cans seem to be more common probably because there are fewer variations. All Savage cans are a scares and a pricey item.

I think the last Savage brand ammo was around1964, I think.

(Corrected statements about the 1911 can. I found a readable can and it does list loadings for the .25-35, 32-40 and 38-55. Why 1911 vs 1904 time frame, I don't know.)

I bought a box of Savage brand ammo from Bill McNalley at the Denver show. It had the warning label. Bill said it was produced in 1962 and that that was the first year for the warning label and the last year for Savage brand ammo.
Top 1962 Westfield .303 ammo, bottom late Utica production 30-30 that I got from another vendor in Denver.

back of the above boxes.

David

Bill always has a great ammo selection, and a lot of nice 99's. Guy knows his Savage ammo, that's for sure. Beautiful boxes.

The Child Warning box's are hard to find and that is a nice one. Bill is a good guy. We had a short visit as he passed through town on the way to Denver.

I found photos of a 1911 can so corrected and updated the above info.

Rick
What vintage/model is the can pictured?

Wow, 1962 they started the child warning label. Never would have guessed that early.

Thank you very much for the info on the can Rick. You have obviously put a lot of effort into your research and learning, I am just getting started. Do I have this straight?
There were at least 2 cans prior to the "#1 for standard and miniature cartridges" first produced in 1899. I assume these were a different label. Not #1?

Then there are three more label variations for the #1 can, 1901, 1903 and 1911. All "not for miniature cartridges".

The #2 can also started in 1901, but was only for "miniature cartridges. Sounds like prior to 1901 they had one powder to do it all, so to speak. In 1901 they introduced 2 powders to to handle the various load requirements.

I am sorry, but you lost me on the amended statement for the 1911 can. Is that a #2 can for the 25-35, 32-40 and 38-55? And not sure what you mean by "why 1911 vs 1904 time frame".
Don't mean to be a pest.

David, those are some really nice boxes. attached a photo to the image gallery of 2 250-3000 boxes I have. Having no luck attaching photos to this thread as you did. One is 2 piece and one is Top Notch, wish they were in as good of shape as yours. Do you know when Savage transitioned from the 2 piece box?

Thank You,
Eric