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That is what what diameter do cast bullets give excellent performance on game compared to modern jacketed and homogenous projectiles?

Personally I'm biased and would say 35 cal is where cast bullets really start being worthy or good performers. Maybe it's .348 Win and I'm sure an heavy cast would be great in it but it's not as common.

What do you think? Is the 35 the point where we have enough weight and diameter to make the cast become critter getters?

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I have shot many cast bullet loads in my .35 Whelen, bullet weights 200, 210, 215, 220 and 225. I have shot the most 225 grain with 15 gr. Unique, it is an accurate load. My rifle is a pre'64 Winchester M/70 that was rebored 25 + yrs. ago by Randall Redman.

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.35s overpenetrate on bunnies and such. It isn't the caliber as much as what application is contemplated.


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I don't cast in diameters smaller than 35, and have more molds in 35 than any other caliber, so I guess I must agree wink I assume you're talking rifles? 200-250 gr of .358" lead at 1800-2000+ fps may not be a death ray, but it'll put venison on the ground.

That said IMHO 45 caliber seems to be where cast lead seems to pull even with jacketed bullets.

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In my limited experience, 38 caliber seems to be the lower limit where I draw the line. It isn't so much the speed of kill but the amount of blood let out for tracking. This appears to be dependent on bullet shape and at 38 caliber it seems even a round nose lets out an adequate amount. Add a flat point and the exit seems to bleed better.

The 35 calibers may be adequate but my experience there is limited to handguns. The lower velocities and hard bullets have not been impressive as I would like. Lighter 158 gr bullets like I tried may have been a factor too, 180 gr jacketed bullets have been more favorable the couple times I used them. I imagine a like weight SWCs would perform similarly. I would like to try 180-200 gr bullet in the 35 Rem as it should rival jacketed bullets. So far, my meager search turned up round nose bullets which I don't think provide enough of a bloodtrail. A mould with a decent flat point will become a search subject at some point I'm sure.

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The caliber means very little in comparison to alloy, velocity, bullet design and construction, etc. I'd rather use a properly set up 30 cal than a poorly done 45-70 cast bullet.

The guys trying to use hard bullets and round noses at reduced speeds might as well be shooting FMJ jacketed bullets, of course they don't perform well, and the problem isn't the caliber.

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I'd say for every about every bullet diameter, you can make cast work the same as jacketed as long as we are talking velocities under 3,000 fps..

Softnosed bullets and heat treated shanks are preferred, but plain old heat treated wheelweights can give weight retention (and damage) similar to most cup and core bullets if within velocity impact limits and a nose shape that dictates expansion.

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I like 35's/9mm's as game getters using cast and like the caliber in general. However, I think if I were to "cut off" a cast bullet caliber for hunting it would be at 8mm. A 200 gr., 8mm bullet with a nice meplat has been effective for me. My experience does appear to indicate that "bigger is better" but, I've used 40's and 45's significantly more than the smaller bores so it isn't an equal comparison.


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Originally Posted by Yondering
The caliber means very little in comparison to alloy, velocity, bullet design and construction, etc. I'd rather use a properly set up 30 cal than a poorly done 45-70 cast bullet.

The guys trying to use hard bullets and round noses at reduced speeds might as well be shooting FMJ jacketed bullets, of course they don't perform well, and the problem isn't the caliber.


IMHO you'll have to make an effort to get a 45-70 to perform poorly on game. On the flip side you have to put in a concerted effort to get everything right with a 30 caliber.

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To some degree, sure, but in my experience the difference isn't as big as many big bore fans would have you believe. Unless of course you're pushing that little 30 cal slow with reduced loads, but then we're not just comparing caliber, but a big difference in power too.

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Depends entirely on what you're hunting. I've been doing most my deer killing for a long time now with .30 cast bullets, 170-200 grains, and honestly can't tell a difference from jacketed stuff. Admittedly, close-ish woods ranges and nothing bigger than 200 pounds but that describes the experience of the vast majority of American hunters. I would draw the line at .22-6mm cast bullets for deer, but anything bigger, with some weight in its ass and a flat nose or hollowpoint, will do the job with aplomb- if the trigger man does his part in placing the bullet. Without good bullet placement it doesn't matter a helluva lot if you use a .30 or .45, or high vel premium jacketed bullet, you doom the animal to needless suffering.


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I cast for .222 Remington to 416 Rigby. On one hand, one of my brothers used a 170gr hp cast in his '03 for years without a problem, but that was early 60's maybe late 50's before he knew better. The cast bullet Guru, of whom I had great respect, Al Miller wrote that his recommendation -- .375 was minimum cast bullet diameter for game such as deer since he lost a trophy after hitting it hard with a cast bullet from a 350 Rem Mag.

I built a 375 Whelen AI primarily as a cast bullet shooter for deer. I also use 45-90 and some others...

I think I'd use a 44 Mag with cast bullets over say a 30-30 with cast. But I know there are people that do quite well with cast in their 30-30's.

Getting cast to expand reliably is perhaps an issue.


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The smallest i cast is 25 caliber.

I do shoot 7mm,8mm,41 mag and the 45-70.

I have only shot rabbits with the 80 grain 25 but the others have worked on larger.

I guess i am glad not to have read that getting cast bullets to shoot well is a lot of hard work.
Same goes for that saying that the 40 S&W is a hard one to reload because of it's high pressure.

By the way i can say that for the last 15 years i have not had the so-called problem of leading,pistol or rifle.

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Originally Posted by Yondering
The caliber means very little in comparison to alloy, velocity, bullet design and construction, etc. I'd rather use a properly set up 30 cal than a poorly done 45-70 cast bullet.

The guys trying to use hard bullets and round noses at reduced speeds might as well be shooting FMJ jacketed bullets, of course they don't perform well, and the problem isn't the caliber.

Perfect. A 45-70 can fail as fast as any other with wrong bullets. Bigger does not work like some think.

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I get good accuracy when I size .001-.002 over bore diameter. I also try to limit the amount that I size any bullet to about that same .001-.002.


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.002 over bore diameter is a great starting place. Some rifling will want a little bigger and some will want a little smaller. So unless youre chasing the smallest possible groups, the Lee Sizing Kits work for all calibers except 44 Magnum (Need at least .431 for good accuracy) and maybe 300 BO (I use a .309 sizer only for 308 bores).

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I use lee molds from 30cal to 50cal in pistol & rifles i do not size any more tumble lube an load. cast of 50 /50 ww & pure lead. i do not push 30cal past 1700fps

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Every bullet has limitations. It's up to the shooter to place it within that frame. Caliber is irrelevant.


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.002-003” over groove diameter ( sized, lubed, gas checked- if g.c. design). I cast for .308” ( 30-30, 308 Win, 30-06), .358 mag/ 38 Special, 44 mag, 45-70. Might be different for .224-.257 bore ( may need .002”).

You need to slug your bore first, to find YOUR starting point for groove diameter.


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That is so yesterday. smile It's been proven time and again that what is most important for cast bullet accuracy isn't groove diameter, rather throat diameter is the key. Size around .0005" under throat diameter for a perfect fit that guides the bullet straight into the rifling. An added benefit is less chance of leading (less blow by of hot gasses), and being able to use softer alloys than is intuitive. A Cerrosafe chamber cast to include an inch of the rifling will tell you more than pounding a lead slug through the bore. An alternative means is to do a pound cast- a lead filled empty case or a case with a brass rod fitted so as to fill the neck (as an anvil, so to speak) to support a soft lead slug in the throat which is then upset to fill the throat and leade by whacking it a couple times with a steel rod from the muzzle that closely fits bore diameter (not groove diameter obviously). The resulting slug is a perfect "negative" of the throat dimensions. It can be carefully stored for all eternity and used as a reference later on, something you can't do with a Cerrosafe casting the ephemeral nature of which only lends itself to a narrow window of opportunity in which to take the measurements.

Further pursuit of cast bullet accuracy will lead you farther down the rabbit hole. The next step is to configure the bullet nose to fit the leade. One can re-throat one's rifle with a throating reamer to give a gentler taper to the leade, and then make a die with the same reamer in which to swage the nose of the bullet for an absolutely perfect fit- a tapered plug fitted to a tapered hole so to speak. All that is a lot of work, true, but again its all about starting that poor soft bullet as straight as possible into the rifling. By pitching headlong down the above mentioned rabbit hole (and paying heed to other protocols too) there is no reason why one can't achieve the accuracy one gets with jacketed bullets.


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