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Jim;
Top of the morning to you sir, I hope the rains have come to your area in sufficient measure to get the crop going okay.

The BSE wreck took out a lot of BC ranchers - exactly how many I can't say Jim - but a lot of the smaller ones are gone now and in the ensuing mess the government tightened up on regulations making it almost impossible for smaller farms to keep say half a dozen beef and sell them locally for slaughter anymore. My sister used to do that and can't any longer for instance.

If we can produce and export finished goods Jim, then the labor takes place at home.

The whole pipeline mess between BC and Alberta is an extension of that too in many ways as there used to be 4 or 5 bigger refineries in the Vancouver area, now there's one. When someone else is refining that oil and selling it back to us, we lose all that employment and then end up paying the aforementioned $4.32 or so for a gallon of diesel.

The math gets pretty ugly when you're paying that for fuel and everything you touch gets moved by truck, does it not Jim? How much of an effect would another dollar per gallon of diesel have on your operation Jim, or Sam's or any other family sized operation?

Anyway, again if we can figure out a way to continue to work together as good neighbors - the way its been for the past 150 plus years - I'd suggest the mutual benefits would outweigh the negatives. As always though, time will tell if the collective "we" are able to do so. I for one fervently hope so.

All the best to you and yours as we head into summer Jim.

Dwayne


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BC30cal,

I get the part for doing finished goods at home to capture the labor aspect and that makes sense.

For way too long the US has favored big corporations over the independent and family businesses. Those closest to the land and their communities have been pushed out for the sake of bigger is better mentality. Maybe big corporations are more efficient and produce cheaper priced goods but in my view at the expense of small towns in both countries and their quality of life. Wal-Mart as a retailer is a prime example of big pushing out the mom and pop stores in so many small towns across the entire country. Yes it is cheaper goods, but look at the consequences in community breakdown. But I digress.

When it comes to trading raw materials, there are probably materials we have more of and materials Canada has more of that can be traded back and forth by balancing It is all very complicated and I am surely not informed enough to even know what, if anything, is out of whack. All in all and as simple as I can see it is trade should be as balanced as possible for the good of both nations.

I can see us as a nation favoring our friends in any unbalance, but it would be better if all nations traded evenly. That is a pipe dream for sure.

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Generally speaking, I feel that no country should be exporting raw materials and this especially applies to Canada. There was, perhaps, some reason for this trade when Canada lacked the population and infrastructure and much of the early developement was paid for by the export of raw materials and the developement of industry by foriegn (usually American) corporations. Today, we are capable of refining any of the raw materials we export. There is absolutely no reason, for instance, for Canada to allow the export of raw logs while importing paper and construction materials. There are so many aspects to trade inequalities that it is unlikely that anyone will ever address them all. Subsidization of industries via tax breaks, forgiveable loans, market manipulation and outright gifts, occurs on both sides of the border. In the end, my concern is only what the effect might be on the end user because that is me. GD

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Trade goes back to the day's of Marco Polo. Each country should get a "fair shake in the trades."


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Possibly one of our American friends can answer a question for me. My understanding is that your dairy farmers over produce milk to the extent that they end up dumping millions of gallons each year. is this correct?

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Originally Posted by greydog
Generally speaking, I feel that no country should be exporting raw materials and this especially applies to Canada. There was, perhaps, some reason for this trade when Canada lacked the population and infrastructure and much of the early developement was paid for by the export of raw materials and the developement of industry by foriegn (usually American) corporations. Today, we are capable of refining any of the raw materials we export. There is absolutely no reason, for instance, for Canada to allow the export of raw logs while importing paper and construction materials. There are so many aspects to trade inequalities that it is unlikely that anyone will ever address them all. Subsidization of industries via tax breaks, forgiveable loans, market manipulation and outright gifts, occurs on both sides of the border. In the end, my concern is only what the effect might be on the end user because that is me. GD


Your example is one that fits the keep raw materials and develop the labor approach. That works for a lot of stuff, but what if whatever you are making needs a little of this and a little of that to complete the product and you don't have any domestically? Take lithium for rechargeable batteries. If the country has no lithium, do you abandon the technology or trade for it?

Some countries have little in natural resources but have smart and industrious labor that is added value. The US and Canada are blessed with many natural resources and it has made both countries wealthy along with the hard work of the people. Not all are so fortunate and find other ways to compensate. Trade gets complicated with the subsidizations and trickery and we can agree that hurts us all.

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Canada had a perfectly good, maybe great, PM in Stephen Harper. He is not flashy, but is still a good orator. He is a rather shy intellectual economist who was able to win a minority government for the Conservatives back when the corrupt Liberals (dubbed at the time the Libranos) thought that their man, Paul Martin, was a shoo in. IIRC he won two more minority governments and then finally in 2011, a majority government. Unlike a lot of political leaders, he is not from a wealthy family. He has spent his life as a policy wonk. He loves hockey (he has written a book) and music. He has been known to spot a piano, sit down and competently play an impromptu song.

Canada is a large diverse country. The second largest province is Quebec which thinks it is a nation within a nation. This notion combined with the other differences makes Canada virtually ungovernable. As a conservative man, Harper wished he could have done more on many topics, but that was always balanced against keeping his party in power. Compromises were necessary. He won four consecutive elections and managed minority governments for longer than anyone else in the history of Canada.

Having defeated a series of Liberal leaders and the NDP's Jack Layton, Harper had shown some staying power. The Liberals recruited Trudeau who ran as a MP. He won election and I think put him right into the Liberal shadow cabinet. Too soon, they needed another leader and the Liberals pushed Justin forward in the hopes there would be some name recognition. He won the leadership, but did not distinguish himself as the leader of the opposition.

By the time of the 2015 election, the left leaning media had cast Harper as a mean spirited man that was too hard on the social issues and the green movement, calling him a climate change denier. Central and Eastern Canada began to believe this, especially the millenials. The main challenger was perceived to be the NDP, who are pretty much socialists now. The Conservatives effectively campaigned against their leader and destroyed his chance for the NDP to win. The Liberals were now the contenders and their campaign slogan was that Justin was real change. The Conservatives campaigned that Justin "Just not Ready".

About August or September, I felt the Harper campaign manager should have been fired. The transition from fighting the NDP to the Liberals was not smooth enough and the communication was not clear to the average person. Unbelievably a lot of people felt the message that he just wasn't ready was mean to Justin.

Anyways, Justin won and we have been paying the price since. 2019 can't come fast enough.

Justin Trudeau is a part time drama teacher. He is from an extremely rich family. He is a trust fund baby. His father was PM for a long time and was a mean SOB who started Canada's decline. His mother was a flakey flower child about 30 years younger than his father. Pierre dabbled in communism in his youth and Justin has said he admires China's form of government. The family are longtime friends with the Castros of Cuba. Justin's wife is an entertainer in Quebec, meaning she has zero profile in the rest of Canada. Justin is a social justice warrior and a greenie. He is advised by his brother Sascha, and a close friend who is a militant Muslim. His chief of staff is Gerald Butts who is a rampaging greenie.

Trudeau is everything you don't want in a leader. He is a poser and an empty shell who has no original thoughts of his own. He is Obama lite. Except Obama was smarter and a better orator. Without his hair, his looks and his family name, no sane person would elect Trudeau as a manure shoveler.

Hopefully we stop depriving a village of their idiot next year.

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Originally Posted by AB2506
Canada had a perfectly good, maybe great, PM in Stephen Harper. He is not flashy, but is still a good orator. He is a rather shy intellectual economist who was able to win a minority government for the Conservatives back when the corrupt Liberals (dubbed at the time the Libranos) thought that their man, Paul Martin, was a shoo in. IIRC he won two more minority governments and then finally in 2011, a majority government. Unlike a lot of political leaders, he is not from a wealthy family. He has spent his life as a policy wonk. He loves hockey (he has written a book) and music. He has been known to spot a piano, sit down and competently play an impromptu song.

Canada is a large diverse country. The second largest province is Quebec which thinks it is a nation within a nation. This notion combined with the other differences makes Canada virtually ungovernable. As a conservative man, Harper wished he could have done more on many topics, but that was always balanced against keeping his party in power. Compromises were necessary. He won four consecutive elections and managed minority governments for longer than anyone else in the history of Canada.

Having defeated a series of Liberal leaders and the NDP's Jack Layton, Harper had shown some staying power. The Liberals recruited Trudeau who ran as a MP. He won election and I think put him right into the Liberal shadow cabinet. Too soon, they needed another leader and the Liberals pushed Justin forward in the hopes there would be some name recognition. He won the leadership, but did not distinguish himself as the leader of the opposition.

By the time of the 2015 election, the left leaning media had cast Harper as a mean spirited man that was too hard on the social issues and the green movement, calling him a climate change denier. Central and Eastern Canada began to believe this, especially the millenials. The main challenge was perceived to be the NDP, who socialists now. The Conservatives effectively campaigned against their leader and destroyed his chance. The Liberals were now the contenders and their campaign slogan was that Justin was real change. The Conservatives campaigned that Justin "Just wasn't Ready".

About August or September, I felt the Harper campaign manager should have been fired. The transition from fighting the NDP to the Liberals was not smooth enough and the communication was not clear to the average person. Unbelievably a lot of people felt the message that he just wasn't ready was mean to Justin.

Anyways, Justin won and we have been paying the price since. 2019 can't come fast enough.

Justin Trudeau is a part time drama teacher. He is from an extremely rich family. He is a trust fund baby. His father was PM for a long time and was a mean SOB who started Canada's decline. His mother was a flakey flower child about 30 years younger than his father. Pierre dabbled in communism in his youth and Justin has said he admires China's form of government. The family are longtime friends with the Castro's of Cuba. Justin's wife is an entertainer in Quebec, meaning she has zero profile in the rest of Canada. Justin is a social justice warrior and a greenie. He is advised by his brother Sascha, and a close friend who is a militant Muslim. His chief of staff is Gerald Butts who is a rampaging greenie.

Trudeau is everything you don't want in a leader. He is a poser and an empty shell who has no original thoughts of his own. He is Obama lite. Exceptb Obama was smarter and a better orator. Without his hair, his looks and his family name, no sane person would elect Trudeau as a manure shoveler.

Hopefully we stop depriving a village of their idiot next year.



Thank you for the detailed synopsis.

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Originally Posted by greydog
Generally speaking, I feel that no country should be exporting raw materials and this especially applies to Canada. There was, perhaps, some reason for this trade when Canada lacked the population and infrastructure and much of the early developement was paid for by the export of raw materials and the developement of industry by foriegn (usually American) corporations. Today, we are capable of refining any of the raw materials we export. There is absolutely no reason, for instance, for Canada to allow the export of raw logs while importing paper and construction materials. There are so many aspects to trade inequalities that it is unlikely that anyone will ever address them all. Subsidization of industries via tax breaks, forgiveable loans, market manipulation and outright gifts, occurs on both sides of the border. In the end, my concern is only what the effect might be on the end user because that is me. GD



I was always disappointed when the border opened after the BSE mess.


We were told down here that Canada was seriously moving ahead with packing capabilities.

Our big packers lobbied to have the border opened, hell or high water to prevent that from happening.

Hurt both country's producers.


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US overproduction of dairy products could outcompete Canadian dairy products, so they put tariffs on to protect their own producers.


The US in the last 40 years:

Socialism for big corporations and military industrial complex

&

Rugged individualism for the individual.
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Greydog and AB2506 have summed up Trudeau and his government nicely.

Former PM Stephen Harper was in my opinion, one of best PM's Canada has ever had. Here is a small clip on Harper's view on the trade war; he sums it up perfectly and spoken like a true PM.

http://video.foxnews.com/v/5795869384001/?#sp=show-clips

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Originally Posted by AB2506
Canada had a perfectly good, maybe great, PM in Stephen Harper. He is not flashy, but is still a good orator. He is a rather shy intellectual economist who was able to win a minority government for the Conservatives back when the corrupt Liberals (dubbed at the time the Libranos) thought that their man, Paul Martin, was a shoo in. IIRC he won two more minority governments and then finally in 2011, a majority government. Unlike a lot of political leaders, he is not from a wealthy family. He has spent his life as a policy wonk. He loves hockey (he has written a book) and music. He has been known to spot a piano, sit down and competently play an impromptu song.

Canada is a large diverse country. The second largest province is Quebec which thinks it is a nation within a nation. This notion combined with the other differences makes Canada virtually ungovernable. As a conservative man, Harper wished he could have done more on many topics, but that was always balanced against keeping his party in power. Compromises were necessary. He won four consecutive elections and managed minority governments for longer than anyone else in the history of Canada.

Having defeated a series of Liberal leaders and the NDP's Jack Layton, Harper had shown some staying power. The Liberals recruited Trudeau who ran as a MP. He won election and I think put him right into the Liberal shadow cabinet. Too soon, they needed another leader and the Liberals pushed Justin forward in the hopes there would be some name recognition. He won the leadership, but did not distinguish himself as the leader of the opposition.

By the time of the 2015 election, the left leaning media had cast Harper as a mean spirited man that was too hard on the social issues and the green movement, calling him a climate change denier. Central and Eastern Canada began to believe this, especially the millenials. The main challenger was perceived to be the NDP, who are pretty much socialists now. The Conservatives effectively campaigned against their leader and destroyed his chance for the NDP to win. The Liberals were now the contenders and their campaign slogan was that Justin was real change. The Conservatives campaigned that Justin "Just not Ready".

About August or September, I felt the Harper campaign manager should have been fired. The transition from fighting the NDP to the Liberals was not smooth enough and the communication was not clear to the average person. Unbelievably a lot of people felt the message that he just wasn't ready was mean to Justin.

Anyways, Justin won and we have been paying the price since. 2019 can't come fast enough.

Justin Trudeau is a part time drama teacher. He is from an extremely rich family. He is a trust fund baby. His father was PM for a long time and was a mean SOB who started Canada's decline. His mother was a flakey flower child about 30 years younger than his father. Pierre dabbled in communism in his youth and Justin has said he admires China's form of government. The family are longtime friends with the Castros of Cuba. Justin's wife is an entertainer in Quebec, meaning she has zero profile in the rest of Canada. Justin is a social justice warrior and a greenie. He is advised by his brother Sascha, and a close friend who is a militant Muslim. His chief of staff is Gerald Butts who is a rampaging greenie.

Trudeau is everything you don't want in a leader. He is a poser and an empty shell who has no original thoughts of his own. He is Obama lite. Except Obama was smarter and a better orator. Without his hair, his looks and his family name, no sane person would elect Trudeau as a manure shoveler.

Hopefully we stop depriving a village of their idiot next year.


Great post........ We can thank the CBC for much of the Liberal success in the last election. It should be sold to private interests and let the people decide if it lives or dies.

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I am curious about the oil refineries and why you don't have more in canada. Here it is EPA regs and such that make it almost impossible to build new ones. Trump is trying to roll back some of those regulations. Some one said something about standing up to Trump. He isn't the problem. The old politicians are the problem. Now that Obummer is gone maybe it will be Free Trade. I farmed on the border in North Dakota and saw some of the stupid agreements with Canada. We could send all the fish we raise to Canada but not one kernel of wheat. Care to guess how many fish we raise here. That's correct Zero. Ed k

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Originally Posted by edk
I am curious about the oil refineries and why you don't have more in canada. Here it is EPA regs and such that make it almost impossible to build new ones. Trump is trying to roll back some of those regulations. Some one said something about standing up to Trump. He isn't the problem. The old politicians are the problem. Now that Obummer is gone maybe it will be Free Trade. I farmed on the border in North Dakota and saw some of the stupid agreements with Canada. We could send all the fish we raise to Canada but not one kernel of wheat. Care to guess how many fish we raise here. That's correct Zero. Ed k

I can't speak to regulations, however, in my neck of the Canadian woods majority of people do not want oil refineries. It would be political suicide. Instead, they want to adopt more of a Norweign train of thought - reduce pollinates such as oil refineries or tar sands (which is whole other topic) and invest in renewable energy.

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Originally Posted by AB2506
Canada had a perfectly good, maybe great, PM in Stephen Harper. He is not flashy, but is still a good orator. He is a rather shy intellectual economist who was able to win a minority government for the Conservatives back when the corrupt Liberals (dubbed at the time the Libranos) thought that their man, Paul Martin, was a shoo in. IIRC he won two more minority governments and then finally in 2011, a majority government. Unlike a lot of political leaders, he is not from a wealthy family. He has spent his life as a policy wonk. He loves hockey (he has written a book) and music. He has been known to spot a piano, sit down and competently play an impromptu song.

Canada is a large diverse country. The second largest province is Quebec which thinks it is a nation within a nation. This notion combined with the other differences makes Canada virtually ungovernable. As a conservative man, Harper wished he could have done more on many topics, but that was always balanced against keeping his party in power. Compromises were necessary. He won four consecutive elections and managed minority governments for longer than anyone else in the history of Canada.

Having defeated a series of Liberal leaders and the NDP's Jack Layton, Harper had shown some staying power. The Liberals recruited Trudeau who ran as a MP. He won election and I think put him right into the Liberal shadow cabinet. Too soon, they needed another leader and the Liberals pushed Justin forward in the hopes there would be some name recognition. He won the leadership, but did not distinguish himself as the leader of the opposition.

By the time of the 2015 election, the left leaning media had cast Harper as a mean spirited man that was too hard on the social issues and the green movement, calling him a climate change denier. Central and Eastern Canada began to believe this, especially the millenials. The main challenger was perceived to be the NDP, who are pretty much socialists now. The Conservatives effectively campaigned against their leader and destroyed his chance for the NDP to win. The Liberals were now the contenders and their campaign slogan was that Justin was real change. The Conservatives campaigned that Justin "Just not Ready".

About August or September, I felt the Harper campaign manager should have been fired. The transition from fighting the NDP to the Liberals was not smooth enough and the communication was not clear to the average person. Unbelievably a lot of people felt the message that he just wasn't ready was mean to Justin.

Anyways, Justin won and we have been paying the price since. 2019 can't come fast enough.

Justin Trudeau is a part time drama teacher. He is from an extremely rich family. He is a trust fund baby. His father was PM for a long time and was a mean SOB who started Canada's decline. His mother was a flakey flower child about 30 years younger than his father. Pierre dabbled in communism in his youth and Justin has said he admires China's form of government. The family are longtime friends with the Castros of Cuba. Justin's wife is an entertainer in Quebec, meaning she has zero profile in the rest of Canada. Justin is a social justice warrior and a greenie. He is advised by his brother Sascha, and a close friend who is a militant Muslim. His chief of staff is Gerald Butts who is a rampaging greenie.

Trudeau is everything you don't want in a leader. He is a poser and an empty shell who has no original thoughts of his own. He is Obama lite. Except Obama was smarter and a better orator. Without his hair, his looks and his family name, no sane person would elect Trudeau as a manure shoveler.

Hopefully we stop depriving a village of their idiot next year.



Thanks for the perspective on Trudeau. I have wondered what western Canadians thought about him after visiting BC several times to hunt and sightsee. Met some great people in the backcountry and the small towns...
...


When people face the possibility of freezing or starving there is little chance they are going to listen to unfounded claims of climate doomsday from a bunch of ultra-rich yacht sailing private jet-setting carbon-spewing hypocrite elites
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I'm not from Canada, but Trudeau is an idiot, plain & simple.

As far as trade goes, you either have free trade or you don't; whether you do or not, in some instances, some industries will get hurt.

If you start managing it via lots if pokitical special interest controls, then you end up where we are today.

As far as I'm concerned there needs to be some level of dialog about balancing trade so everyone comes as close to net Zero as possible, taking into account that there will likely be some need for managing certain things.

When a country has a huge imbalance of trade, such as the U.S. with China, if allowed to continue, the U.S. will surely go broke.

No country can only be a consumer & make nothing..............soon "nothing" will be the value of it's currency & soon after will come massive inflation via printing money or the debtor country will cease to exist.

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Originally Posted by MontanaMan
balancing trade so everyone comes as close to net Zero as possible, taking into account that there will likely be some need for managing certain things.

That's essentially the NAFTA.

America runs a surplus from Canadian trade by tariffs paid by Canadians on US goods, its not one-sided despite how some make it appear. In fact, Canada is the US single biggest customer, by a good margin. If you look at the Free Trade Agreement in its entirety, its actually well balanced between Canada and the US.

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Originally Posted by Diesel
I was wondering about what the Canadian perception of Trudeau is as a leader.

With the press in the US what it is, it is tough to access the man from afar.


We had Obummer.. they have Pierre's panzy son to deal with.

its no slap to Canada... I'm sure most decent Canadians feel he is an embarrassment..
the same way any Decent American felt that Obama was an embarrassment...

there shouldn't be ANY restrictions from Canada or the USA on trade between our two countries...

and both nations need to get rid of the Muslims, etc that are infesting our two nations...

most Americans don't know that like 85 to 90% of Canada's population lives within 100 miles of the US border...

minus the 5 or so big cities..

Western Canada is like a big version of Montana..
the Prairies are a big version of North Dakota..
Ontario is a big version of Northern New York...
Quebec is well.. full of the French.. who excel at wanting to be different.
and the Maritimes are pretty much like most of Maine, but further east, with more coastline..

Good places, full of good people...


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I am no fan of Trudeau or his dad but I am not sure I like people outside of the Canadian family criticizing my Prime Minister. The recent verbal attacks by President Trump will surely serve to make PM Trudeau more popular in Canada and most of the democracies of the world.. We don't have a big trade surplus with the USA and each country has some protection for certain sectors. America for example charges 350% on tobacco from Canada.

Kim is an honest guy and Trudeau is a liar? Funny world where you alienate your friends and praise the dictators. This can't end well.

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