Home Forums Birds & Dogs Hunting Dogs Tips on training for "honoring a point"

I pheasant hunt w/ a "pointing" Lab. If the bird holds, my female Lab is, literally, a "statue" . The issue is the other flusher lab we hunt with. He will blast bye my girl on point as soon as he notices she's on point and, usually, before we can get set up in position for the flush. How do we make the flusher honor the point? A whistle command to stay? Any ideas are welcome.
Mark

It is not any different than Re-enforcing a pointing dog to honor. I would pick up a couple books on pointing dogs to give a more thorough explanation. I have done this successfully with spaniels and retrievers and to a lesser extent with my wife's mutt (it will not honor my oldest setter for any reason, jealousy is too strong between the two though the mutt honors the younger setter and my old wirehair).

Start with the basics, make sure the "flusher" will stop instantly and every time at the stop command. When the dog does this off a check cord, introduce it to a dog on point when on the cord. A cut out seems to work as well as an actual dog, at least in the beginning, but one will need to add a real dog at some point.

Set up the excersize so the "flusher" suddenly sights the pointing dog. Give the stop/sit command and use the check cord to back up the command if needed. Do this until the "flusher" stops on its own. Then start all over with the dog off a check cord. I use an ecollar from the very beginning to back up the commands. Some don't believe in ecollars but these tools make many things much easier on the dog and trainer if used correctly.

When the "flusher" reliably backs the pointer without being on a check cord, it is time to add birds. Start at the very beginning with the cord as you are adding a variable and will need absolute control. You will need a pointer that is steady to flush to make things easier as it decreases the competition to retrieve the bird. With the dog honoring, pop the bird from the trap but don't shoot. I use pigeons as they are cheap if one catches them or will return to the coop if you raise them. I don't shoot as I am trying to keep variables and enticements to a minimum. Repeat until the dog remains stopped for the flush.

When the dog honors at this point, you an add gunfire. Don't shoot the bird, just add the new distraction of shooting. You will need a pointer that is steady to the shot for this. When the "flusher" remains stopped without correction, then add shooting birds.

Start from the beginning with the check cord as the desire to retrieve adds a tremendous incentive to forget all training to this point. A helper is mandatory as one cannot handle the dog and shoot the bird at the same time. I do not let the "flusher" retrieve until he stops and remains so when the bird falls. To further enforce the stop clommand, I let the "pointer" make the retrieve.

When the "flusher" stays put through the whole process outlined above, I'll start to mix in letting it retrieve providing the flusher does not break until command d to do do. The flusher then learns that retrieving is dependent on honoring and will do so in the field. If it doesn't, a refresher is needed even if out hunting as it is quicker and easier to undo training as it is to instill it.

That is the reason I outlined a many stepped outline as the flusher has already learned bad habits and one will have to break it of them before teaching new ones. Taking shortcuts and not following through to completion will end up in a dog that would be no better than it currently is and maybe worse. Also, going to the point of steadying to the flush and shot is needed as they reaffirm the actions you desire in both dogs. Competition to retrieve can lead the flusher to forego its training and you are back to square one at best.

It is work but not as outlandish as it seems, especially if one starts from scratch. Stating with a dog that has already established undesired habits is going to be more time consuming. Working in a couple excersizes a day should get you there fairly quickly and one should be able to do so without much difficulty until one hits the bird shooting part. By that point one should be able to get it down with a couple trips a week to shoot birds if one continues the other steps.

Not a pointing lab fan but have something you might try. Get the flusher back into the yard and tech it to sit when a bird flush's. I do that with pointing dog's and it works well. First you have to teach the dog sit. Then get a bird and call her around and give her a sit command. Wait a few second's after she sit's and release a bird to fly away. Do it a good number of time's and then start moving the sit command and the thrown bird closer together. Once they are right next to each other, command and flush at the same time, stop with the vocal command. Get her really good on stopping and then take her out in the field with the pointing dog. Have to pointing dog hidden where she can't see it right away and take her to where she can see the pointing dog. As soon as she see's the dog, pop the bird. Require a remote trap. What your looking to do is turn the sight of a bird flushing into a command that stops the dog. Works great with pointer's and setter's. Do the same thing but rather than sit, use the whoa command and the bird flushing means whoa. The dog spots the other dog on point and flush the bird immediately. Bird flushing is meant to stop the dog. Do not give the backing dog just one moree chance to stop, launch the bird immediately! very important, Immediately!

That would work for creating a dog to be steady to wing and flush but the OP is trying to get the flusher to stop and honor the point - NOT flush the bird. In this case the sight of the dog on point is the trigger for the flushing dog to stop, not the sight/sound of a flushing bird. This can be done and the process is not much different than what is done with pointing breeds though with pointers this trait is often stronger than in flushers. Some of the more traditional lines in the Continental breeds require a bit more coaxing to honor than in the more typical pointing breeds. The former are what I learned on many years ago and some individuals were very "iffy" regarding backing. It took time and effort to get them reliable.

Teach dog to whoa on command, then release the dog when you are ready to flush. I use the dogs name to release.

I have no idea, on pointing labs, so I would talk to those who breed and train them. Lots of good advice from above, not much to add. My experience with the "backing", has been for pointers training for hunt tests. With that said, I now have a lab, which I picked up at 3 years of age, and he points better than some short hairs I have trained. I honestly believe I could pass him in a AKC pointing dog test, ha ha..... But I believe he points, or really is just cautious, due to the amount of hunting he gets to do, and working grouse in the far north, he has learned to slow down.

Out in South Dakota, on public lands, he will point, but these are not game farm birds, so not much time in setting up the flush, them birds are already moving,,,,,,, I love to hunt with another dog, that is a hard flusher out there. I use to hunt flushers all the time with pointers, and it was a killing system,,,,,