Home Forums Reloading Varmint Rifles 17 Fireball Loads - H4895

Recently bought a Rem 700 in 17 Fireball. Was keen to try H4895 because I always have it in bulk but Hodgdon / ADI don’t list anything slower than 8208. I’m using the 25g Vmax.

As the max load listed with the 25g Vmax for 8208 was 19g, I reckoned on 18g of the slower H4895 as being a safe starting point. Load density appears somewhere about 90-95%.

My Fireball has a 20” barrel (since I lopped it from 24”). With a CCI400 primer this load averaged around 3550fps. Accuracy was outstanding, better than with the other powders I tried ie H4198 and H322.

I have no way of determining pressure but it seems a very mild load. I believe with a 24 inch barrel this load would develop around 3650 to 3700fps.

I don’t think I’ll push this load any higher because accuracy is great and I can’t see much advantage in driving it faster.

Thought I’d share this for anyone thinking of trying H4895 in the Fireball.

Thanks Bob. I'll give that one a go.

Cliff,

ya got a 17 Fireball... I always wanted to find one of those
but they have eluded me... found them but the budget was lacking
at the immediate moment.. go back two weeks later and its gone.

I just need to rebarrel something instead.. not like I don't have a candidate
or two hanging around...

heck, even have the reloading dies and brass for it..
as I was reloading the round for an old veteran friend, who had one
in a TC break open...rechambered from a 17 HMR.

Seafire, I reckon one of the Howa Minis would be a sweet conversion to the 17 Fireball. I thought about going that way but this came up and was too good to miss at the price with dies, cases, bullets and some other bits and bobs.

yeah Bob, I have a couple of Howa Minis.. would want a heavier barrel than they came with from the factory., but not by much.

Where you bobbed your barrel off by 4 inches, I would prefer the 24 inch barrel as it would be an open country used rifle.

I did like the balance of the Remington Predator....but also my varmint rifles, I single shoot them anyway for the type of varminting we do here in Oregon., so I may go with a barrel on a Ruger 77 Mk 2....

If it was factory, my preference would have been a 17/222....

cheers and best regards.
seafire

I ended up with one at an auction, John. It was new and unfired, The Remington 700 SPS with a heavy barrel and the green plastic stock. I had my smith adjust the trigger and it actually shoots pretty darn well. I need to run some more factory rounds through it and then begin loading for accuracy.

I purchased a 17 FB when they first came out, a R700 SPS with 26" barrel which like bobnob17 I shortened to 21". Settling on 15.5 grains of IMR 4198 gave me 3600 fps with 25 gr VMAX. Had a small supply of the 25 gr HP at the time and I sure wish they still made those as they were very accurate from my rifle. Mach IV data being the only available info at the time, I ran 13.5 gr of IMR 4227 at 3500 fps for good accuracy with the VMAXs as well.

My gun from the manufacturer had a burr just inside the chamber that left a small 1/32nd of an inch long gouge in the cases at the pressure ring area. I never ruptured a case and it never impeded function or accuracy so I just left it. Found a 17/222 reamer on clearance from PT&G shortly after and nabbed it up for a future build, that was 10 years ago and that build is still future.

When ever I get the itch I throw the 17 FB back together. A great fur caliber for sure but with less than ideal shot angles I've lost a few dogs using it, so I tend to stick with 50-55 gr SXs/VMAXs in the 222 or 55-60 gr SPs/VMAXs in the 223.

CWM I know what you mean as a fur calibre.

The first animal I took with it about a week or so ago was a big fat rabbit facing away from me at 255y. The 20g Varmageddon took him right in the centre of the back and he rolled over stone dead.

No exit, and just a tiny entrance wound. Inside was of course complete mush. Amazing to someone that’s never shot anything below 22cal.


Just to compare notes with your IMR4198 load, 15.5g of H4198 with the 25g Vmax gave about 3480fps from the 20” bbl.

My observations on the barrel chop was for 4” less barrel I lost about 150fps with the 20g bullet and about 120fps with the 25g Vmax.

Cheers.

Brief update...

I wrote to ADI and asked them about H4895 (called AR2206H here) in the Fireball. Their response was non committal but not discouraging...

Thank you for your enquiry of 26/6/2018 with regard to reloading using ADI Sporting powders.
Please find attached our latest test load data for .17 Remington Fireball.
You may be able to develop a load for this cartridge with AR2206H however you would have to undertake your own experimental load development. We do not have any test load data for .17 Remington Fireball with AR2206H as it is considered too slow burning for optimal performance in this cartridge.
Extreme caution should be taken and loads should be worked up accordingly. Refer to our website at www.adi-powders.com.au or our 9th edition handloaders’ guide for more information, warnings and reloading safety.

In the meantime I just took the rifle to double check zero at 125y, at which range I wanted to have it printing 2.4 inches high. The groups at left and right are the 25g Vmax with H4895, the lower centre group is the 20g Varmageddon with H4198.



I adjusted the zero up between the far left group and the far right. Pretty pleased with this accuracy with H4895 given my coarse bench rest skills and apparatus. About 0.45MOA.

Not so thrilled with the H4198 accuracy but that particular group was larger than usual. Nice that they print to roughly the same spot though.

I like 4895 in my 223s and 20p, but those sticks can be a PITA. how are you throwing consistent loads and getting them to drop in a 17 neck? FWIW I settled on TAC for my fireball and 4320 for my 17 Remington.

Im just throwing into a pan then through a 17 calibre funnel into the case. One extra step but still quick and fuss-free.

Can’t get TAC here else I’d love to try that one. But the H4895 is good enough for what I’m doing.

Very interesting, Bobnob17. Thanks for sharing your data. I'd never have guessed. I've had excellent results from both 4198's in Fireball and MachIV. Prefer moly-coated bullets in the 17's, seated just at the lands. Of late, I've been using Midsouth and Varmageddon 20's moly coated and shooting TiteGroup 4.5-6.5 gr to duplicate the various rimfire 17's. They are even more accurate than the full power stuff for me.

Thanks HnS that’s interesting too. I have wondered about replicating some HMR loads. Now I have a starting point. Thanks again.

Benchmark is another good 17 Fireball powder. If I recall correctly I got around 4000 FPS with 19.5 g and a 20gr bullet out of a 24inch barrel. Thanks for the results with 4895.

playing around today. Love this little pea shooter.

Bbasi: Great shooting there!
That grouping makes me want to try those 20 grain Hornady V-Max bullets in my heavy barrel 17 Remington Fireball (and in my custom Varmint Rifle in caliber 17 MachIV).
Checking my loading log it appears I have not tried 20 grain bullets in any of my 17 caliber centerfire Varminters.
Very few Rifles/caliber combinations provide as much satisfaction/fun as a heavy barreled 17 Remington Fireball in a good colony of Ground Squirrels!
Thanks for sharing.
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

Nice shooting bbassi! Did the 25 grain shoot as well?

no - they grouped almost twice the size of the 20s ....

ya oughta do like Schtick does...

shoot a target at 25 yds with one shot.. then claim it was 10 shots at 1000 yds with his new 'Krunchenticker' ( what ever that means) and his new Super Chicken, custom made just for him....

all ya need is that and a picture of a caught fish and your rifle laying in the stream in the background...

it sure motivates Stumpy's campfire groupies....

Nice.

I could never get mine to shoot that way.

Not sure why 4895, surprised me here even though IMR 8208 is so close on the burn rate.

My favorite 17 FB propellants have been Benchmark, Imr 8208 & Tac so far. CFE BLK is one I still look forward to trying. BTW I generally favor the 30 grain bullets as I aquired a good supply 17 years ago or so. iI I am in a area where ricochet is of more concern than usual the 20 grain plastic tips get the nod.

You need to shoot for group size with the Premier load. My model 7 Predator will put three of those in a half inch if I am doing my part.

I'll do that. I have about 100 rounds of Remington Premier ammo. Need to go warm it up.

Reviving a 3 year old thread, I brought up on Google...

Got some of these loaded up in 17 Fireball brass to try out tomorrow....

I'm playing with it... picked up a Varmint profile barrel in it from EABCO in MN

The barrel is overkill for the round, but the price was right... $250 on the door step threaded for a Savage Action...

So this is timely....

my barrel fouls in about 25 to 30 shots tho....

Both me and this rifle are busy discovering and getting to know each other...

a 17 Fireball isn't just as easy as loading for a 223, that's for damned sure.

Me and the Fireball were over at the range yesterday, and trying out loads with 19 grains of H 4895 and 19 grains of IMR 4895..

The H 4895 load has turned out to be one of the more accurate loads of the 4 hundred rounds down the barrel so far..

by far tho, the IMR 4895 has proven to be the most accurate load yet... one ragged hole for 5 shots at 100 yds..

bullets were the 20 V Max...

This barrel seems to be liking lower pressure loads, over some of the higher faster loads tested...

accuracy winners so far seem to be the two 4895 loads, and then followed by full loads of Benchmark and H 322...

2015 gets honorable mention with the 25 HPs....

barrel seems to need a good brushing out, every 25 rounds or so, If not, it goes from groups to patterns...

funny side not, was looking at some brass on the load bench, almost looked like 3006 next to the 17 Fireball... but turned out to be just 22.250 cases..
working with the 17 for a month pretty much exclusively, the 22 caliber cases now look like big game rounds....

Seafire: I am happy for you that the 17 Fireball is shooting so well!
I have not tried any 20 grain bullets in my factory stock Remington 700 VSF 17 Remington Fireball with 26" heavy barrel.
I have taken you loads and attached them into my 17 Fireball page of my loading log and if bullets ever become available again I will be sure to try your loads.
My 17 Fireball is shooting the 25 grain Berger MEF (Maximum Expansion factor) bullets real well - but these are pricey and were hard to find even before they were discontinued.
Thanks for sharing that recommended load info.
I bet that 20 grain V-Max really plumps up a Ground Squirrel!
Keep after'em.
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy
P.S.: Way to windy to shoot here in SW Montana today supposed to have sustained 45 M.P.H. winds!

I'll be reviving this thread as pretty soon I will be receiving one of the 17 Fireball barrels I have ordered.

I picked up a Savage Axis 2, in 350 Legend, which has an 18.5 inch barrel, in a heavy magnum contour.
I liked how it balanced very well...

The barrel ordered will be in the same contour and length, and chambered for the Fireball with a one in 9 twist.

We'll see how well it performs, and will start out with H 4895....

I've got about 2500 bullets, and you can still find them available on line.

Kno9w this is once again reviving an older thread.

Have finally been able to rebarrel the Axxis 350 Legend, to a similar contour barrel, 18 inches in length.
Kinda handy to handle, that is for sure....

been able to get set for brass, some LC reformed and about 250 of Rem Factory cases....

Been working with testing a bunch of different powders, using the 20 gr V Maxes... but also have a good supply of the lead free 15.5 grain bullets,
haven't touched those yet, along with the 25 gr HP bulk Hornady I got on the cheap from Midway. 1500 bullets for like $90 delivered.

of course, after sending about 200 rounds down the barrel, now stating to take a look at some loads, using Small Pistol primers,
and in that has been Alliant Steel and good ol Blue Dot.

hasn't been windy locally, so and 8 gr charge of Blue Dot, has been pretty darn accurate out to 150 yds....
Max capacity of Blue dot was 17.5 gr of Blue Dot... so 50% or half of that is 8.7 grains.... so I picked 8 grains to see what I got...
turned out pretty darn well, and recoil is ridiculously.... missing..

Also tried Alliant Steel, with an 8.5 gr charge also...same thing.

Juat playing with flexibility... its doing good. Also annealing the case, every reload. So far I've got a batch of 10 cases that I've reloaded 15 times so far, and they are holding up well... RCBS sent me a die one of their engineers reworked and made it easier to F/L sized, spent money on a couple dies with certain features...Crimp from Lee, got a 17 caliber decapping pen from Lee also, and put that in an extra 30/30 die I had, for decapping it..
then got a 221 Fireball F/L length die from Lee. I use that for a body die...So far no casualties at the load bench.

Little case seems to like AR Comp and RL 10 and 7 a lot also... to include IMR 4198, H 322, Benchmark, 1680, CFE Pistol and CFE 223.

Like a 223, it seems also to "Aim to Please"....

years ago I went nuts loading the round for an 85 yr old friend.... but since 2008, I guess I've gotten more coordinated than back them.

I shot a 700 SPS sporter-weight in .17 Fireball for several years, and likewise found TAC not only very accurate but easy-flowing through the little neck. But also found Benchmark was very accurate, and the granules small enough to work as well.

In my .17 Remington Ramshot Big Game worked very well, with similar easy flowing as TAC in the Fireball.

Seafire -

I think I remember you don't like it, but my go-to in the .17 FB was 20 grains of H335 under a 20 grain VMAX. 5 shot groups from a cheap blued 700 SPS sporter were around 3/8 of an inch and after the first 100 rounds it quit copper fouling. It was hell on digger squirrels up in the clear cuts. Should never have sold it but someone offered me more money for it than I paid for it new and there's always a new shiny thing to chase so .. I chased.

Tom

tom,

good to hear from you... its been a while...

yeah, I avoid H 335... I know it shoots good for a lot of folks, but I won't touch it and there are a zillion alternatives.

I've rebarreled 3 savages to 17 Fireball now. I enjoy playing with it at the range.. to late to see combat with the sage rats over in Klamath this year...
but come Feb or early March, that'll change.

brass is holding up pretty darn well.. got one batch with 15 reloads on it, and another batch just finished their 20th reloads...

The 20 v Maxes are pretty darn accurate... I've got like 1500 ea of 15.5 grainers. Gotta get around to testing those out.

Going to try some testing of an old batch of AA 452 Win, and see how that performs with the fireball. Blue Dot worked pretty darn well...

have a happy thanksgiving there Tom....

take care my friend!

cheers, seafire

Remington model 7

Weight sorted Remington Brass 1.400 OAL
Federal Small Rifle Primer’s #205
20g Hornady VMAX
19.2g Ramshot X Terminator
1.823 OAL
1.510 Ogive

Gun will shoot better than 1/2 moa if I do my part. Xterminator picked up 200fps from other powders I was playing with at the time

Glad to see this thread alive again.