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Thanks guys. Since I want a .22 and don't mind the extra weight, I'll probably go with the HW95. I already have several pumpers, including a Mac-1 steroid Benjamin 392 but am getting sick of pumping. I also want something with decent accuracy and a good trigger, something my BSA Meteor is lacking.

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I thought I knew what I was talking about but you seem to have a different opinion. I have purchased three Weihrauch HW30-S over the last 6-9 years. All were gifted to grandchildren and believe me they tried to wear them out without success. They are a good starter pellet rifle with amazing accuracy. All springers push a projectile out the end of a barrel by means of releasing a compressed spring that is contained in a tube. The spring moving down the tube and suddenly stopping, results in the "twang". All springer have the "twang", some less than others. I have never shot an Olympic grade air rifle, but will bet they are "tuned" to eliminate as much "twang" vibration as possible to aid in accuracy. "Gas tam" I no nothing of. Most people refer to the gas struts in these types of rifles as gas pistons or gas rams. The two partners at Theoben Air Rifles designed and started offering gas ram for sale in air rifles back int he 80's. I have a Theoben Evolution rifle with their gas piston and it has been going strong for going on two decades. Theoben is not longer in the rifle business but their gas ram design lives on. I have owned a multitude of springers both tuned and not tuned. I don't have a thing against springers but have migrated toward the gas ram type of air rifles for my guns. Currently my main tree rat gun is a Weihrauch 22 caliber HW90. The HW90 gas ram is a Theoben design. Gas ram failure would be a seal failure. Seals can be replaced in gas rams and the ram recharged. I am ashamed to say I have not heard of the gas ram explosion you are talking about. Not saying if could not happen, just that I have not heard about it. I would think this would be a more common problem with pre-charged pneumatic (PCP) air rifle that have a much larger volume of compressed air. The volume of air contained in a gas ram is pretty small. ALL magnum air rifles, both springer and gas ram, are hard on scopes. When scoping magnum air rifles you will need to look or ask if they are magnum air gun rated. Some of the scope manufactures will tell you they are tested to 50 caliber recoil........but some of those 50 cal. rated scopes will not hold up to a magnum air rifle.

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I think spring twang or " buzz" with an airgun Is a lot like recoil in a cenyerfire rifle . It is subjective in nature and what does not bother some folks is intolerable to others. But just like recoil most of of it is shear physics.The heavier the rifle vs the power level the softer the gun will shoot. Or in the case of the spring gun vibrate less upon firing.


I think the HW90 is about the only has ram.gun I would trust over time, but even those have bern known to fail . Had a good friend who has 40 years expwrince with Speing guns have the gas ram burst on a Beeman RX2 (HW90).It blew out the cocking arm and wrecked the stock..Having said that ,the gas rams have been used a lot by Crosman and Gamo the last 7 ro 8 years in guns of various quality.. You don't see gas rams in match grade spring guns either..Its really personal prefernce amd after shooting them both quote a bit I just prefer a well done spring gun and mine don't have to have tuned just good quality guns, broken in well, properly lubed and fed good pellets. If I owned a gun with a truly awfull firing cucke thst was worth tuning, I would not hestitate to send it to someone like John Thomas in PA for a tune..

I still think it is very intersting that Walther did not use gas rams on their latest LVG & LVU Piston guns and Weihrauch has only used them on one model all these years.

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I asked "Educate me." Sure am getting an appreciated bucket full.

Thanks men.
Jim


BE STRONG IN THE LORD, AND IN HIS MIGHTY POWER. ~ Ephesians 6:10

Socialism is a philosophy of failure,
the creed of ignorance,
and the gospel of envy,
its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery.
--Winston Churchill


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HW30 or 95. My 177-30 runs about 600fps. 177-95 about 950fps.I've shot houseflies at 30 yds. with both.

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Not to hijack but, my HW30S arrived and is a great shooter. I've run about 200 Crossman 7.99 HP's and they chrono 635-640. Easy to cock and very accurate. I have some Crossman heavies, 10.3?, but haven't shot them yet.


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HW30's and R7's are perfect in 177cal with medium weight pellets. Stick with the premiers or maybe some RWS Diabolos (the flat point really smacks birds and small critters). If you want more power then the R9 in 22cal is the way to go.

Last edited by centershot; 07/31/18.

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I'm looking at R9's and HW50's now. This HW30 is so nice.

Flat points, really? Lot of difference between flat and hollow points that I'm using? I've only shot paper to date.


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the r7/hw30 is easily the best springer ive shot. easy to cock, accurate, and everything doesnt work itself loose. downside is that it doesnt really have enough juice to reliably kill squirrels or other vermin at any distance. an R1, on the other hand, will whistle pellets right thru a critter.


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If I were buying a Weihrauch I’d get the HW50s. And some day I probably will.

I got a pair of Daisy 131’s, rebranded Gamo Expo, that I picked up at two different pawn shops for 25 bucks a piece. They do mostly what an HW30 would do, except with a shorter length of pull and some cost cutting construction. But about 40 years old and still shoot great. Nice click adjustable sights, good triggers, super easy to cock, very accurate but not real powerful. I added a recoil pad to increase the LOP on one, as well as a 4x32 scope. The nicer one I left stock with open sights.
For reason of their low power, like the R7 and HW30, I wouldn’t choose one for for my only airgun. About a 30 yard target gun is mostly what they’re good for.
But I busted them out last weekend for my niece and her husband and their 2 and 4 year olds to shoot. We set up some cans of various sizes and had a blast with them.

A more powerful option, and one that also won’t break the bank, is Daisy’s next step up from the 880. The 901. Easily scopeable. About on par with the power of the HW50s. And around $70 before scope. Add a Simmons 22Mag 3-9x32 and you got a decent plinker with the power and accuracy to shoot targets out to 40 or more yards and hunt small game or pests effectively out to that 30 yards or a bit more. All for less than $150 bucks including pretty decent scope and a few tins of ammo. I get the Winchester Domes .177 9.8 grain pellets from Tractor Supply for about $5 per 500.

The advantages of the Daisy 901 over the 880 is a better stock and a more adult oriented pump handle along with a factory stabilized barrel. This is what you want if you want inexpensive accuracy. Expect those nickel and dime, or quarter, sized groups, depending on skill, at 25 or 30 yards from a rest.

I don’t know about that Seneca. But a Sheridan Streak or a Benjamin 392/397 were not meant to be scoped. And they’re much harder to pump than a Daisy 880 or 901.

I have a couple of other cheap powerful springer that’ll do a number on steel cans out to 65 yards, and probably even further. Ones a plain Crosman Nitro Piston .22 ($50 pawn shop buy) which is pretty lightweight at about 6 pounds. It wears a Simmons 22 Mag 3-9x32 that I bought used.
And the other is a super accurate but longer and heavier Ruger Blackhawk Elite with adjustable trigger and a big honkin 4-12x40AO BSA Sweet 17 scope(also purchased used) in .177 caliber that’ll shoot close to 1” groups at 65 yards.
The Nitro Piston .22 might go 2 or 2.5 on a good day. And I’ve had no trouble with these upper mid power rifles tearing up inexpensive scopes.

The Ruger is actually a clone of the German air rifle Diana 34, but with the older T5 trigger.
And I’d wager that it’d shoot just as good. Though purists would argue different.

But I’d love to have an HW50S if I was a serious air gunner. Not as powerful as the two above, but more than enough to get you out to 35 or 40 yards, maybe 50, and easier to cock. And not so powerful that it’ll eat a scope.
The beauty of the springer is it’s fast to cock, fast and very easy to load, easy to mount a scope, and no additional accessories needed. Much more convenient to put a lot of lead down range than a pumper. And the 50 doesn’t have a lot of recoil that’d require a great deal of learning.

Still the pumper is easier to shoot than even the lowest powered springers. As is the PCP air rifles. Neither have any recoil. But I haven’t gotten serious enough to want to have to have a pump or tank or special high output compressor to consider a PCP. And the convenience of ease of loading along with me being too impatient and lazy to want to pump 8 or 15 times as opposed to cocking once, and accurate enough for me, leaves a mid powered springer / gas ram / nitro piston as my go to choice.

Except I have an easy to load open sight Crosman 1377 pump pistol that I shoot quite often. And just as often wish it was a 1322, as the 22 pellets are so much easier to handle. About $50 new and worth every penny. Very accurate and about as powerful as an HW30 rifle.

Last edited by DollarShort; 08/03/18.
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DollarShort

Thanks. You're talking my language. Viable options, personal experience. Appreciated.
Thanks
Jim


BE STRONG IN THE LORD, AND IN HIS MIGHTY POWER. ~ Ephesians 6:10

Socialism is a philosophy of failure,
the creed of ignorance,
and the gospel of envy,
its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery.
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The Crosman Custom Shop has some pretty cool stuff too. The 1300KT is a neat little pumper based on the 1377 pistol. Pick your caliber and barrel length. Plus many custom options. Super light and handy for carrying around in the woods.
[Linked Image]
https://www.crosman.com/connect/tag/1300kt/

Or the 2400KT is the CO2 equivalent.
One downfall of CO2 though is that it loses some power in cold weather. How much I don’t know. So maybe no a viable option.

Then there’s the more traditional CO2 rifle in the Crosman 2260 Heritage which flings a 14.3 grain 22 cal pellet at 600 fps. About the same speed as an HW30 shoots a 7 grain .177 pellet. Like the 1300KT and 2400KT, easy to scope, but with a little more heft.

https://www.crosman.com/heritage-2260
I’d take any one of these. All lightweight, handy, easy to load and scope.

[img]https://goo.gl/images/cfyjLc[/img]


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Originally Posted by DollarShort
If I were buying a Weihrauch I’d get the HW50s. And some day I probably will.

i have two of them: a .177 and a .22. accuracy is close to an R7, but definitely more twangy to shoot. they dont have a power level that im comfortable with for squirrel hunting, from experience. unless youre very, very close. much less finicky and/or demanding than an R1, though.


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Jim,
I am late to the conversation, and before getting to the post about being sauggested a weirauch HW30s that is what I was going to suggest. It is not pumpeable, as you already know, but it is a very smooth shooter.
I got one, also to use a trigger finger trainer. I can stack cheap chinese pellets in pretty much the same hole at 10m, and my kids (5-7y) can shoot it failry accurately too. It is light, scopeable (I had a 6x SWFA MQ in it, then a 10x SS, now has a Hawke 2-7x32AO Mildot which I think is a much better balanced option.

Never tried hunting with it, and as suggested above, there are other options for accurately and humanely killing when you get further out. Inside 30 or 40yds would be fine for birds, and I think accurate enough for head shots.

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Originally Posted by n8dawg6
Originally Posted by DollarShort
If I were buying a Weihrauch I’d get the HW50s. And some day I probably will.

i have two of them: a .177 and a .22. accuracy is close to an R7, but definitely more twangy to shoot. they dont have a power level that im comfortable with for squirrel hunting, from experience. unless youre very, very close. much less finicky and/or demanding than an R1, though.


Yeah, you’re probably right.

I really like my cheap, plastic, lightweight .22 cal Crosman Nitro Piston. That thing is a real hammer. Much more powerful than the HW50S I’d guess, and about the same length and lighter weight too. And even with it’s light weight it doesn’t have an abundance of recoil. Twang is non existent. And I love the .22 pellets for their ease of use and downrange thump.
It’s not super accurate, but I may buy another barrel to try out on it. And the trigger isn’t good, which probably doesn’t help the accuracy. But I plan on putting a roller bearing in the trigger which from reports helps immensely.

The only problem with the .22 is it doesn’t shoot quite as flat as an equivalently powered .177, as the same power in .177 is a good bit faster. But .22 is so much easier to handle the pellets and the splat factor is no contest.

Last edited by DollarShort; 08/07/18.
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Originally Posted by DollarShort
Originally Posted by n8dawg6
Originally Posted by DollarShort
If I were buying a Weihrauch I’d get the HW50s. And some day I probably will.

i have two of them: a .177 and a .22. accuracy is close to an R7, but definitely more twangy to shoot. they dont have a power level that im comfortable with for squirrel hunting, from experience. unless youre very, very close. much less finicky and/or demanding than an R1, though.


Yeah, you’re probably right.

I really like my cheap, plastic, lightweight .22 cal Crosman Nitro Piston. That thing is a real hammer. Much more powerful than the HW50S I’d guess, and about the same length and lighter weight too. And even with it’s light weight it doesn’t have an abundance of recoil. Twang is non existent. And I love the .22 pellets for their ease of use and downrange thump.
It’s not super accurate, but I may buy another barrel to try out on it. And the trigger isn’t good, which probably doesn’t help the accuracy. But I plan on putting a roller bearing in the trigger which from reports helps immensely.

The only problem with the .22 is it doesn’t shoot quite as flat as an equivalently powered .177, as the same power in .177 is a good bit faster. But .22 is so much easier to handle the pellets and the splat factor is no contest.

i have found that i also greatly prefer the .22 for the reasons you mentioned. i just mounted a 4x hawke scope on my hw50s in .22 and must say im very impressed. the scope i had before would NOT hold zero but this one dialed right in and the rifle is just shooting like a champ now. i almost cant miss. doubt im getting velocity above 500-600 fps, though.


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