Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Custom Rifles & Wildcats .256 Newton .... New to Me

I probably did this wrong, but I just got a new to me, .256 Newton. I posted it on the Savage forum if you would like to see it. Love it !!! Love it !!!

If by some chance you would tire of it
let me know!!

I have two of them, a three-digit 1st Model Newton and a Husqvarna 9000 (S&W C) that Ray Montgomery in Grand Junction rebarreled for me. It is my favorite long action 6.5mm bore cartridge, certainly a winner that never took off due mainly to being introduced at the start of WW1. First Model Newton barrels are identical to 1903 Springfields, so a 1st Model Newton barrel can easily be screwed into a 1903 Springfield receiver and a 1903 Springfield barrel can just as easily be screwed into a 1st Model Newton receiver. The 256 Newton is sort of a long action 6.5 Creedmoor.

They make ammo for that? I don't see it in the store.

I looked under the Savage forum, no could find.. I would love to see this rifle..

There hasn't been any factory loaded 256 Newton ammo cataloged since 1941/1942 that I'm aware of. I make mine from 25-06 parent brass, but I don't make it very often 'cause it is a PITA to make.

Just do a search on his recent posts in the Savage forum and you'll find it.

Thanks.. Forgot about that!!

Just finished having a built up 98 Mauser in 256 Newton made. The only difficult areas have to do with cartridges. Making brass can be a chore. Also, loading data is dated. Wonder how long before somebody re-introduces the Newton? We are gradually catching up with 1914.

The most recent loading data that I recall seeing for the 256 Newton is the data that Ken Waters put together for the May 1987 edition of Handloader that is in his Pet Loads books.

I'd suggest starting with maximum recommended loads for the 6.5x55 and work toward the minimum recommended loads for the 6.5-06, since the 256 Newton's case capacity falls somewhere between those two well documented cartridges.

Using 140's and 4831 my 256 will comfortably manage about 2850 fps. This is about 100 fps faster than my 6.5x55 and about 75 fps slower than the 6.5-06 using the same combination. Now, I am already anticipating all of the posts telling me about their rifles which produce much higher velocities than these but I don't care. I have gotten 2850 from the 6.5x55 but that load was too hot IMO; just like 3000 from a 6.5-06.
The 256 Newton is surprisingly difficult to form well and I appreciate the availability of Jamison brass. GD

Tried to move them over here ...... will see what happens.

https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbt...umber/75015/filename/20180630_143522.jpg

https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbt...umber/75018/filename/20180630_194537.jpg

https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbt...umber/75019/filename/20180630_194728.jpg

https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbt...umber/75020/filename/20180630_151158.jpg

I go along with you greydog with the loads, and miss the availablity of Jamison brass. Have been pretty busy forming some this last several days. Have been anealing 270 cases, using 20gr of H4198 to fire form and 48.5gr IMR 4831 for my load with a 129gr Hornady bullet. I haven't chronographed it yet, but there are no signs of pressure. This rifle is 102 years old, it seems like we haven't come all that far :):):) It is a wonderful old rifle !!! Love it

I find that it is easier to make 256 Newton cases by necking up 25-06 parents brass than by necking down 270 parents brass.

Several people have noted the potential danger of inserting a 256 Newton cartridge into a 25-06 chamber, but it hasn't been a problem for me so far.

I have had as much success necking down 30/06 as necking up 25/06. In either case, I've had some difficulty with shoulder collapse which was totally unexpected. Nonetheless, I think the 256 was/is a great cartridge; just like the 30 and 35. GD

My Speer loading manual #1 has 256 Newton loads listed. I will dig it out and post it here tomorrow.

The Speer reloading info will be much appreciated, thanks. I'm using 270 brass because I have so much of it. It's too hot in this part of Texas right now for me to wring this old rifle out. (today it was 109 with an index of 117 !! too much for this old man ) Come cooler weather, I will be giving it a workout. I don't want to drill and tap it, so all my shooting will be with old eyes and iron sights. Wish me luck :):):):)

John

256 Newton load data from Speer Manual #1

87 Grain Bullet:

60.0 4831 3135
58.0 4831 3005
56.5 4831 2940

59.0 4350 3345
57.0 4350 3214
55.5 4350 3075

56.0 4320 3567
54.0 4320 3436
52.0 4320 3298

54.0 4064 3556
52.0 4064 3415
50.0 4064 3252

55.5 4895 3534
53.5 4895 3390
52.0 4895 3295

51.0 3031 3476
49.0 3031 3366
47.0 3031 3212

120 Grain Bullet

59.0 4831 3065
57.0 4831 2938
55.0 4831 2875

56.0 4350 3065
54.5 4350 2955
53.0 4350 2845

51.0 4320 3030
49.0 4320 2915
47.0 4320 2791

50.0 4064 3010
48.0 4064 2892
46.0 4064 2812

48.5 4895 2845
47.0 4895 2767
45.0 4895 2691

47.0 3031 2965
45.0 3031 2863
43.0 3031 2758

140 Grain Bullet

58.0 4831 2952
56.0 4831 2845
54.0 4831 2764

53.0 4350 2853
51.5 4350 2758
50.5 4350 2665

48.0 4320 2792
46.0 4320 2674
44.0 4320 2582

47.0 4064 2761
45.0 4064 2663
43.0 4064 2575

47.5 4895 2733
45.0 4895 2604
43.0 4064 2526

45.0 3031 2764
43.0 3031 2645
41.0 3031 2562

Caution! This manual was printed in 1954 so powders have changed significantly even though they still have the same numbers. Particularly 4831 as it was then surplus 20mm cannon powder and slower burning then today's offerings. IMR 4831 is much faster then H4831 which is suppose to be close to the surplus. As always start low and work up. Enjoy shooting this old timer.

Dusty

Thanks Dusty. Appreciate the info from the old Speer manual. I cut my teeth on the "old" 4831 :):):) That was about 1960, the old men at the shooting range would share with me. They bought it in a cardboard keg and would divvy it up. The loading instructions were simple: scoop your case full, scratch off the excess with a popcicle stick or tongue depressor, seat a bullet on it and you were good to go !!! Surplus Russian rifles and Argentine Mausers were $12.00 a piece at Wackers 5 & 10 cent store. Ammo was a penny a round. Lots of fun.

John

As suggested using data from 6.5x55 and 6.5-06 worked very well for me. I'm interested in the vintage loading data. Having Ken Waters data was important to me. As a personal choice, I'd any day rather neck down. I use 270 brass. It's all good. Slow powders rule. This undertaking has not been smooth. Had one scope breakdown plus problems getting the rifle finished out correctly. I'll be glad when a guru writes an article followed by the re-introduction of the cartridges and rifles chambered for it.

Working on getting brass made for mine. 4-digit '1st model'. Using 270 brass and about 1 out of 10 crushes the shoulder. Question to Roundball and oldgunsmith(John) and any others - do you neck down the case then trim then size? What order do you do each?

When I had mine I annealed first, then necked down and trimmed last.
For a long time just used a full length die. Finally got a RCBS form & trim die.
Made it go a lot faster.
Used a lot of IMR4831 & 140 gr. bullets
Should have kept it!!!

Alright. I’ll be the idiot. Why is it not .264 Newton?

.264 is measured in the depth of the groove. .256 is measured from land to land. In the original Newton rifles, they used a Metford form of rifling where the 'grooves' were rounded somewhat. Here's an article by Charles Newton from 1917 and published in the American Rifleman describing the rifling they used.

http://ps-2.kev009.com/ohlandl/Cast_Bullet/Vault/Newton-Pope_Rifling_Oval_Bore.html

Interesting! Thanks for the info!

256 Newton case forming-my experience. It's already been shared about how a forming and trim die will make it easier. Using a FL die will work. Take a look where your 270 shoulder is to see how much is moved to make a Newton case. Dents in the case had to do with Imperial wax collecting in the neck and shoulder portion of the die. It was necessary to keep the FL wiped out. This minimized dents. Slowing up pass in the press when forming cases may minimize the collapsed necks. If you have a wrinkle in the shoulder toss the case. Use good clean annealed brass for forming. I was using CH dies in a RC II press.

Thanks all for the info on forming. Had my co. truck catch fire and burn to the ground. Not before it caught the garage on fire though. Heat and smoke damage to the reloading area (primers are toast as they were on a higher shelf and suffered heat damage). My reloading of this fine old lady is on hold for a while. At least until after all the adjusters and such get through and I can start cataloging what's damaged.
Wondering if my stash of 270 brass was damaged? Eh, I'll toss it and pick up some new stuff.

Sorry to here about your fire and hope the insurance co doesn't wack you.

Good snag!

A cool old gun and very interesting cartridge. Newton accomplished some stuff...

I thought it was a cartridge design by Cam Newton!

>>I have a real nice original 300 Newton so that must be the reason its called 300 Newton instead of 308 ?

That would be a "30 Newton". GD

Sorry, I have not been here for awhile. I had a vintage set of 256 Newton RCBS dies and a set of modern C&H dies. Based on experience making this case there are two problems. First obstacle was have to trim the case. I used a borrowed RCBS power trimmer. A trim die would have worked better. At a hundred bucks the RCBS looked less attractive. These cases were made from RP 270 brass.

Shoulder collapse: The cases were lubed with Imperial Sizing Die Wax. The lube is usually well behaved. This time the lube oozed out of the vent hole. The lube situation aggravated and neck and shoulder problem. I did called C&H speaking to the owner. The answer was to lube the case half the way up. This solution worked at the expense of some stuck cases.

Another irritation was the cases appeared oversized from my chamber. The barrel had to be set the barrel back and rechambered. This rechambering could have something to do with this large case business. As you can tell this undertaking was some what star crossed. RCBS no longer offers these dies. C&H can make custom dies but has a set up cost. Best talk to them for current cost. A no-brainer is to always resize the parent brass first. I have always preferred to neck down hence the 270 brass.

Loading data. You are on your own. Using data derived from 6,5x55 and 6.5-06 worked for me. My rifle can get into 6.5-06 territory so I back off on the charges. The cartridge works great in a 98 Mauser action. A new Leupold 3.5-10x40 scope has just been installed. Got the rifle roughed in yesterday. This project in moving in geological time.

The biggest problem I found with sizing cases in the C-H die was that the die is not vented. It was air which was trapped ahead of the shoulder which was causing the shoulder to dent; not lube. I cured this by drilling a vent hole in the sizing die. The 256 case is slightly more tapered than the 06. The shoulder diameter is greater on the 06 which is why the air got trapped. Another way to form the cases which worked out well was to first set the shoulder back with an 8x57 die. This reduced the shoulder diameter as well and eliminated a lot of the trouble. By the way, I have always had better luck annealing after forming. Annealed brass is often too soft and more likely to collapse.
Loads from the Number One Speer manual are often very hot! One definitely wants to work up. 58 of 4831, behind a 140, is usually too hot in a 6.5/06 and I can't get near that in my Newton.

Thanks for the suggestion for using 8mm dies. I was not clear in my post about which set of dies was giving which problem. My understanding is that C-H dies will not be vented. The problem with the lube surfaced using the RCBS dies. In one instance there was a longitudinal dent below the shoulder with the C-H dies. The trapped air makes sense. The suggestion for using less lube did come from C-H.. In the end it was possible to form cases with minimum loss. What a real killer is that RCBS no longer makes custom dies as in the old days. Right on the 6.5-06 level of loads in the Newton. If one wants a 6.5-06 build one. Cases for the 6.5-06 are much easily formed. Thanks again for the suggestion on the 8mm dies. My rifle is a built up 98 Mauser action using a 1:8 Bartlein barrel. My current project gun is an original Newton rifle. Cases for that rifle are a snap as it is a 30-06.

One other thing I found when forming cases from 30/06; if I did it fast, I got fewer dents. Slam it into the die than yank it out right away. This in the C-H die. Except for the lack of a vent, I really like the C-H dies. I have them in 30 Newton as well and they are just fine.
My rifle is based on a slightly modified Winchester 54 (Mauser bolt stop, M70 bottom metal, new bolt handle) with a Benchmark barrel. I put it into an Echols Legend McMillan stock which is a nice enough stock but difficult for me to warm up to. I'll probably make a walnut stock later. I am quite a fan of Newton's cartridges; especially the 256 and the 30. GD

Cool!!!!

I form my 256 Newton cases from WW270 cases. I first anneal them in my Giraud annealer and resize in full length RCBS dies. I lost two due to shoulder dents out of 100 using Pacific Hornady Unique case lube. As printed the Speer number one manual load data I posted above in this thread a year ago is way overboard. The best load I use is 48.4grains of H4831sc behind a 130 grain Sierra Game Changer. This load also works with 49.3 of IMR 7828ssc. I built this rifle on one of my spare Remington 1903A3 actions and a Krieger #3 CM barrel twisted at 8 and 26 inches long. I will use a coronagraph next time I'm at the range with this rifle, and report back.

IIRC, Wieland's article from a couple years back said he trimmed before sizing the .270 brass, about 1/16".

Okay, this is from Handloader 295, April 2015. Wieland trimmed 1/16" off .270 brass with a Dremel saw chucked in a drill press, then trimmed to length to square off and chamfered before going through the sizer. May have to trim again after sizing.

I'm not sure about trimming before forming. I've never run into that before for making up 256 cases. What's the purpose. Yep, you are going to need to trim again.

My rifle is made up with a converted BYF 43 Mauser action with Canjar standard trigger. The barrel is a Bartlein with 1:8 twist. The stock is a B&C classic style. I just installed a new Leupold VX-3i 3.5-10x40. It's taken a while to get this rifle going. Remember people the new 6.5's are the latest thing-right.