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I think it could be. I bought a compact 2.0 9mm last night for 349 after the rebate. Glock better recognize fast that they aren't the only premium poly handgun anymore or they are going to lose a huge chunk of the market. The smith is very well made and the trigger and sights are much improved over the glock. I do love the glock 19 but this one might make me forget that. Only complaint I have is this one is slightly top heavy. That may be a good thing while shooting. Will find out.

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The M&P is the real deal...


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Originally Posted by mjbgalt
Glock better recognize fast that they aren't the only premium poly handgun anymore or they are going to lose a huge chunk of the market.


Yes, Glocks are now overpriced.
Glock is a stubborn company, I hope they adapt.



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Why would I prefer the newest slide/barrel length (3.6") vs the standard four inch compact model?

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Balance or weight?

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The Glock 19 killer is the Ruger Security 9. Only mall ninjas would spend 2x for the Glock name. S&W is getting better and better, and if they got the weight down, then folks would hard pressed to justify a Glock.
But the M&P series has traditionally been a little tubby and this compact is 4oz heavier than the G19/Security 9.

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Sorry dja, but I must respectfully disagree. I was an LEO for 33 years and I'm a hard core Glock man. I've been carrying Glocks since 1987 and have total faith in them. We were issued M&P .40s for uniform carry starting in 2007. Too many issues with them for me. The slide sometimes slams shut on its own when a new magazine is inserted. Sometimes they wouldn't lock open on an empty magazine. The Ordnance staff would tell us not to jam the magazine into the well too hard. The top round might jar loose and cause a feed jam. I'm no mall Ninja, but give me a Glock any time. I like Ruger pistols, but my issued M&P that I bought for $1 when I retired is in the safe. I bought all of my old service guns as something for my kids to have some day.

Ron


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I have no plans to switch form Glock. I bought an M&PC9 nearly as soon as they hit the market. I carried it for about a year. I've got nothing against them, but I have more confidence in a Glock, which I've been carrying exclusively for the past few years.

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I don't care about not locking open. I care that it goes bang and is ready to go bang again. But any pistol I own is going to have to be flawless for a couple hundred rounds before I trust it

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Glock 19 killer? Probably not.

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I rotate pistols but I shoot between 3-500 rounds a weekend. I shoot M&P9's, M&P45, Shield 9, Colt Commander 1911, a few revolvers and a few 22's, even a Sig 228 from time to time. Glock has never fit me no matter how much I wanted to like them but a buddy I shoot with loves his Glocks and he shoots them well. Nothing will kill them for him. Ford vs Chevy.

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Originally Posted by The_Real_Hawkeye
Why would I prefer the newest slide/barrel length (3.6") vs the standard four inch compact model?


That would be my question. The height of the two pistols is the same isn't it?


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OK, watched the whole review, height is the same, shorter slide/barrel is a bit better for appendix carry.


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S&W evidently plans on offering an M&P in 1/4", or near that, incremental barrel lengths. Kinda wild... and dumb. I really like the M&P pistols but I don't understand the need for a 3.6", 4", 4.25" and 5" spectrum of barrel lengths. They seem to be a little bunched up in the middle there. I have S&W 9mm's in a Shield 3", a 2.0 Compact 4" and a 5" Pro that seems about ideal to me. I dunno, I'm probably wrong thinking and more options are better.


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Originally Posted by Son_of_the_Gael
Originally Posted by The_Real_Hawkeye
Why would I prefer the newest slide/barrel length (3.6") vs the standard four inch compact model?


That would be my question. The height of the two pistols is the same isn't it?

Yep.

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Originally Posted by Son_of_the_Gael
OK, watched the whole review, height is the same, shorter slide/barrel is a bit better for appendix carry.


In theory. Except that a shorter barrel isn't necessarily better for appendix carry, often it's worse. The G19 vs G26 is a good example; the shorter G26 slide is less stable in appendix carry and tends to tip outward more for a lot of people.

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I purchased the 4'' version a few weeks ago (just before the rebate began as goes my luck) and have about 300 rounds through it so far. When compared to the Glock 19 I can say I shoot the M&P noticeably better. The weight of the M&P feels more evenly distributed to me which results in less barrel movement when firing. IMO the M&P trigger is as good as or better than the Glock. The current rebate would get an M&P buyer in almost $200 under a new Glock purchase. I don't think Glock is going anywhere but for the money the M&P is a heck of a gun

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Same here

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The G19 has been around a long time. If you have a gen2, send it in for a free upgrade. Assuming factory magazines and factory ammunition, if you don't screw with them and keep them stock, they work just fine. It is likely wiser to stay with the same platform, learn it and practice than it is to join the gun-of-the-month club.

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The M&P has been around since 2005. Not exactly "gun of the month" stuff. Glock is no longer the only, or necessarily the default best, polymer framed striker fired gun on the market. It's a good thing for end users to have high quality choices.


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Originally Posted by Winchestermodel70
The G19 has been around a long time. If you have a gen2, send it in for a free upgrade. Assuming factory magazines and factory ammunition, if you don't screw with them and keep them stock, they work just fine. It is likely wiser to stay with the same platform, learn it and practice than it is to join the gun-of-the-month club.

This.

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Glock's superiority has faded. Now Glock is just a name that fan-boys pay extra for. And I'm an ex-Glock lover - my first 9mm was a G19 back in 94. Served me well for many thousands of rounds.
But if I were looking for another 9mm - it wouldn't be a new Glock.

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Originally Posted by dla
Glock's superiority has faded. Now Glock is just a name that fan-boys pay extra for. And I'm an ex-Glock lover - my first 9mm was a G19 back in 94. Served me well for many thousands of rounds.
But if I were looking for another 9mm - it wouldn't be a new Glock.

Don't be coy, Roy.

What would it be?


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The ergos of the M&P suit me MUCH better than the Glock... still have and like my G19 though.

Jerry


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Originally Posted by jerrywoodswalker
The ergos of the M&P suit me MUCH better than the Glock... still have and like my G19 though.

Jerry

The M&P admittedly feels better in the hand, but once one is familiar with shooting the Glock, that doesn't much matter, IMO.

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Originally Posted by The_Real_Hawkeye
Originally Posted by jerrywoodswalker
The ergos of the M&P suit me MUCH better than the Glock... still have and like my G19 though.

Jerry

The M&P admittedly feels better in the hand, but once one is familiar with shooting the Glock, that doesn't much matter, IMO.


That Glock Koolaid is strong stuff, no doubt. Must be near 100 proof the way it can wreck a mans better judgement and decision making.


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Originally Posted by MOGC

That Glock Koolaid is strong stuff, no doubt. Must be near 100 proof the way it can wreck a mans better judgement and decision making.


I will agree the M&P's feel great in the hand and I think they are excellent pistols and a great value. I have nothing bad to say about them. That said, I have seen cases both ways were some shooters do better firing the Glock and some do better firing the M&P. I have a friend who always comments about how good the M&P 2.0 feels in his hand, but he consistently shoots Glocks better. I'm guessing its familiarity from years of shooting them.

I'm just happy to see other good quality striker fired pistols come on the market to give Glock real competition. That usually results in both products getting better.

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What's a good price and what vendor?


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Originally Posted by dla
Glock's superiority has faded. Now Glock is just a name that fan-boys pay extra for. And I'm an ex-Glock lover - my first 9mm was a G19 back in 94. Served me well for many thousands of rounds.
But if I were looking for another 9mm - it wouldn't be a new Glock.


Thanks, retard.


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Originally Posted by deflave
Originally Posted by dla
Glock's superiority has faded. Now Glock is just a name that fan-boys pay extra for. And I'm an ex-Glock lover - my first 9mm was a G19 back in 94. Served me well for many thousands of rounds.
But if I were looking for another 9mm - it wouldn't be a new Glock.


Thanks, retard.


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Yes.


If we live long enough, we all have regrets. But the ones that nag at us the most are the ones in which we know we had a choice.

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Call me a fanboy if you want but, I have seen nothing from S&W, Sig, or anyone else that would make be give up my G19. I love when dudes talk about the sights as if it were a reason to shy away from Glock.. You do realize that NO ONE leaves the stock sights on there, even Glock knows this, thats why the come with plastic junk sights. The same can be said for the trigger, even though the Glock trigger is a very good, serviceable trigger, there are TONS of aftermarket options, to get the feel you want.

Im not Bashing the S&W btw, its a great gun in its own right. Just not for me.

Last edited by MarkG; 07/13/18.

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Mark,
Of course most people change the sights. Like you said, Glock factory plastic sights are junk. Problem is, now the cost jumps another $100 - $150 and makes an over priced gun even more so. I like Glock, I've carried them professionally off and on for thirty years. I have personally owned Glocks for about the same number of years. My opinion comes from long personal experience and several tens of thousands of rounds fired. I no longer prefer Glock as a default best choice in a striker fired auto pistol. Exactly as you said, just not for me. And if someone else has a different opinion that's obviously good for them. I don't understand ignoring other offerings that admittedly fit better, have better sights, have good triggers, are just as reliable and accurate and cost less in purchase price. But oh well, everybody has to work it out for themselves.


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I hope my local gun store gets one in the rental counter. I would like to try it. The Shield 45 I have is an accurate gun, the shield 9mm was as accurate as my G43 and gent 2 G19, all of which are noticeably less accurate than the P365, which is back at the factory as the mag release rusted in 3 months . You pay's yo nickle and you takes yo chances... I was not impressed with the gen 1 9mm shield.

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Originally Posted by MarkG
Call me a fanboy if you want but, I have seen nothing from S&W, Sig, or anyone else that would make be give up my G19.

I have. It's called the M&P. Until they came out, the G19/32 were my go-tos. Had the M&P not come out I would've ("would of" for the morons) kept carrying my Glocks. I still like them. They're ("there" for the morons) just not as good, to me, as the M&P.

Originally Posted by MarkG
I love when dudes talk about the sights as if it were a reason to shy away from Glock.. You do realize that NO ONE leaves the stock sights on there, even Glock knows this, thats why the come with plastic junk sights.

I completely agree with the above.

Originally Posted by MarkG
even though the Glock trigger is a very good

I completely disagree with the above.

Originally Posted by MarkG
even though the Glock trigger is a ....... serviceable trigger, there are TONS of aftermarket options, to get the feel you want.

I completely agree with the above.

Originally Posted by MarkG
Im not Bashing the S&W btw, its a great gun in its own right. Just not for me.

I feel the same way as the above about the Glock. And I still keep and like my Glocks.

Too many people get too ("to" for the morons) defensive about their own chosen pistols. Shoot what fits you best, or, like the OP, shoot what doesn't fit you best but become accustomed to it. Most pistols made today are very serviceable. It is nice to have choices.

I guess in the spirit of the thread title, I should respond to the question posed by that guy who started the thread. Yes, it will kill off some; but, the G19 will reign ("rain" for the morons) supreme for a long time for many reasons. Many of which are good and many of which are absurd. It's good to be king.

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Originally Posted by The_Real_Hawkeye
Originally Posted by jerrywoodswalker
The ergos of the M&P suit me MUCH better than the Glock... still have and like my G19 though.

Jerry

The M&P admittedly feels better in the hand, but once one is familiar with shooting the Glock, that doesn't much matter, IMO.


To me, both lines of guns are really no different to operate because the controls are in similar places. If you can run one, you can probably run the other just fine with a minimal learning curve. After carrying a G23 for years, I now edc an M&P40 2.0c and the G23 sits in the safe. The 2.0c shoots quite a bit softer and feels better overall. When it comes to 40, I think the M&P line is better than Glock in terms of felt recoil and splits. Then again, I think Glock 9mm guns perform better than M&Ps. Ive had some M&P9s that just didn’t shoot well..

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Glock triggers suck! This is a given. The older guns had adequate accuracy I hope to shoot one of the new 19x guns several have said the new ones are more accurate. Would like to rent and shoot this new smith as well.


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Originally Posted by JWD8310
The 2.0c shoots quite a bit softer and feels better overall. When it comes to 40, I think the M&P line is better than Glock in terms of felt recoil and splits.

You are aware, of course, that the M&P line tends to run a few ounces heavier than comparable Glocks, right? That might account for a slightly lighter recoil impulse.

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Originally Posted by The_Real_Hawkeye
Originally Posted by JWD8310
The 2.0c shoots quite a bit softer and feels better overall. When it comes to 40, I think the M&P line is better than Glock in terms of felt recoil and splits.

You are aware, of course, that the M&P line tends to run a few ounces heavier than comparable Glocks, right? That might account for a slightly lighter recoil impulse.


I think you have hit on a real/ true difference between the Glock and M&P lines. The Glock was designed from the start to be a 9mm. Then the 40 comes along and they work to shoehorn it into the existing Glock platform. It just did fit, but without much extra margin. Sometimes the 40 Glocks don't always hold up as well as 40's as they did as 9mm's. On the other hand the M&P came along well after the 40 had near universal acceptance. So S&W designs their new platform around the 40 first and then easily switches it to a 9mm. This difference alone like accounts for why the M&P tends to be a little thicker and huskier is some places than the Glock.

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LMAO Big Sky.

I've fooled with enough 40-45 caliber Glocks and MPs now to have formed some opinions.

Glocks have sloppier chambers which translates to better feeding with a wide variety of bullet profiles. I've benched enough Glocks to be convinced the vast majority will keep 5 shots in 4" at 50 yards from a rest. I'm getting about the same or a shade better from MP's so accuracy is good enough in either case.

Glock makes the better magazine and it's less prone to inadvertent damage. Another reliability advantage. If I buy a used MP it automatically gets the mags detail stripped and new springs installed.

Of course you can polish out the MP chamber, feed ramp and break over point, I've done this and a MP will feed SWCs etc like butter afterward.

I like the basic MP grip much better. For me to like midsize Glocks, I have to undercut the trigger guard to make knuckle room.

Frankly I think a Walther P99AS would suit me better than either of them.


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You've nailed it SargeMO. There are slight differences. Those slight differences make all the difference to a variety of shooters. Heck, they are assembly line items and, consequently, even among identical make and model there will be differences that an end-user will notice. Both are great pistols each with its own shortcomings. Those shortcomings are determined by individual shooters but are not a death nell to the use of said pistols as a personal defense weapon. It's great to have choices. An interesting point that is often lost. For defensive carry, both accomplish what is needed, straight from the factory. Most of us like to tinker to obtain our own personal end goal and, to simply have fun doing so.

Last edited by TheBigSky; 07/14/18.

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With all of this M&P discussion going on, I wound up picking up a new 9mm 3.6” today after trading one of my Glock 19s for it, just to see how I like it. So far so good, but won’t know for sure until it has some rounds through it to see how it runs. Nice size for carry, and only a touch smaller than the 4” models. I’ll update you with findings as soon as I can get to the range.

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Originally Posted by The_Real_Hawkeye
Originally Posted by JWD8310
The 2.0c shoots quite a bit softer and feels better overall. When it comes to 40, I think the M&P line is better than Glock in terms of felt recoil and splits.

You are aware, of course, that the M&P line tends to run a few ounces heavier than comparable Glocks, right? That might account for a slightly lighter recoil impulse.


I realize its a few oz heavier, buy I don’t think the weight accounts for the dramatic difference in felt recoi. Adding a light to a Glock 22 doesn’t make it instantly softer shooting. I think it has more to do with the adaptability of the M&P grip and the grip angle.

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John Browning had that grip angle thing figured out long ago. Gaston not so much.


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Thanks TBS. Another plus for the MP is that it comes with a conventionally rifled barrel and handles lead bullets w/o the necessity of an aftermarket part. My MP45 shot real well with them, too.


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One thing I wished Glock would have redisigned or done differently in the first place, is have a roomier trigger guard.

When you wear gloves in negative temptures and make traffic stops it would be nice to be able to wear a warm glove. I am surprised the Austrians ( colder climate) never thought about it. I could see it if they came from some country closer to the equator.

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Originally Posted by viking
One thing I wished Glock would have redisigned or done differently in the first place, is have a roomier trigger guard.

When you wear gloves in negative temptures and make traffic stops it would be nice to be able to wear a warm glove. I am surprised the Austrians ( colder climate) never thought about it. I could see it if they came from some country closer to the equator.


The USP aced the 'usable with gloves' thing and is a excellent pistol beyond that attribute.


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Originally Posted by dla
The Glock 19 killer is the Ruger Security 9. Only mall ninjas would spend 2x for the Glock name.



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The Tikka T3 in .308 Winchester is the Glock 19 of the rifle world.

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Originally Posted by SargeMO
Originally Posted by viking
One thing I wished Glock would have redisigned or done differently in the first place, is have a roomier trigger guard.

When you wear gloves in negative temptures and make traffic stops it would be nice to be able to wear a warm glove. I am surprised the Austrians ( colder climate) never thought about it. I could see it if they came from some country closer to the equator.


The USP aced the 'usable with gloves' thing and is a excellent pistol beyond that attribute.


The USPs have always been truly outstanding handguns. While their ergos may not work for everyone (like Glocks), they are built to run and run, and with proper PMCS will endure incredible round counts, especially the 9mm and .45 ACP versions.


THE CHAIR IS AGAINST THE WALL.

The Tikka T3 in .308 Winchester is the Glock 19 of the rifle world.

The website is up and running!

www.lostriverammocompany.com

Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 2,368
D
dla Offline
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D
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Posts: 2,368
Originally Posted by Mackay_Sagebrush
Originally Posted by dla
The Glock 19 killer is the Ruger Security 9. Only mall ninjas would spend 2x for the Glock name.



Bless your heart....

[Linked Image]


][Linked Image]

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Posts: 15,605
M
Campfire Ranger
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M
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 15,605
grin


All of us wanna be Mall Ninjas will just defer to your incredible experience Sir and immediately switch from carrying our Glocks and HKs to Keltecs and the "Glock Killer"Ruger Security 9!




laugh


" This Just In!

British SAS/SBS switch to Ruger Security 9, backed up by Keltec!"

"The Swedish and Norwegian Special Forces follow suit, turn in their Glocks, get issued Keltecs and start Drinking Their Own Piss!"






[Linked Image]


THE CHAIR IS AGAINST THE WALL.

The Tikka T3 in .308 Winchester is the Glock 19 of the rifle world.

The website is up and running!

www.lostriverammocompany.com

Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 18,262
J
Campfire Ranger
Offline
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J
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 18,262
that keltec looks like it might make a usable boat paddle in a pinch.


Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 889
H
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H
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 889


well Ted,

you gave me a good, hearty laugh with that one...


all learning is like a funnel:
however, contrary to popular thought, one begins with the the narrow end.
the more you progress, the more it expands into greater discovery--and the less of an audience you will have...
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 2,368
D
dla Offline
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D
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 2,368
And that is why I use the term "mall ninja". Ridiculous, unrealistic, bull-shlt scenarios used to justify spending piles of money.

Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 115,424
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Posts: 115,424
dick
loving
anus


Originally Posted by Geno67
Trump being classless,tasteless and clueless as usual.
Originally Posted by Judman
Sorry, trump is a no tax payin pile of shiit.
Originally Posted by KSMITH
My young wife decided to play the field and had moved several dudes into my house
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 20,824
Campfire Ranger
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Posts: 20,824
You mall ninja's aka, deflave & Mackay are just jealous because you have a job and can afford a Glock and dont have to settle for Kel-Tec's.......... smile


Originally Posted by Judman
PS, if you think Trump is “good” you’re way stupider than I thought! Haha

Sorry, trump is a no tax payin pile of shiit.
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