Home Forums Birds & Dogs Shotguns Another new shotgun thread

Looking to get back into informal target shooting - trap, skeet and some sporting clays. No big time 10,000 rounds/year shooting, more like a couple/three boxes maybe twice per month. Haven't done much shotgun shooting at all in probably 20 years although I used to be on skeet and trap leagues and have done a fair amount of bird hunting over the years.

I've only owned four shotguns in my life and two didn't stick around long at all, my main one for the last 52 years was/is a 12 gauge Rem. 1100. When I was a kid I didn't know about this choke for this application and another for that, I just used the 28" Mod barrel for everything - trap, skeet, rabbits, quail, ducks, everything. Anyway, I got deadly with it mostly because we got the fit right the first time. Now even as soft shooting as that 8 1/4 pound 1100 is, age takes its toll. The last time I shot a round of sporting clays two years ago it felt heavy and recoil was more than I remembered, although the 1300 fps loads were surely part of that.

Anyway, I was thinking of a 20 gauge 870. I know the lighter weight and non-gas operated action will increase recoil but after hefting one in a store I like the livelier feel. Mainly, though, it fits just like the 1100. I'm LH and any shotgun with cast for a rightie doesn't work at all, I'm looking down the side of the barrel. Most other guns with neutral cast still mount a bit low so I'm looking over the barrel. But with the 870, I bring it up and the eye is looking straight down the barrel. I know folks like the older Wingmasters for quality and with some 11 million of them floating around it looks like a used one in very good shape can be had in the mid-$300 range. They have a reputation for going and going so I'm not skeered of one 20 years old or older.

So after that long winded lead in, I guess what I'm asking is, is there any reason not to get a used 20 gauge 870 for informal target use?

Jim, I have been out of trap shooting a long time.. Went at it today.. I have an 870 trap and 870 field.. My last round with the field I got a 24.. Although these are both 12's for what you are looking for, I think the 870 20 would be fun.. Since your just looking to break a few clays and maybe hunt some birds, and 870 20-3" would be excellent... When my first wife was alive, I eventually bought 2 870 20's... She was forever forgetting her ammo, so I bought a second 20 and than made sure we had ammo for the hunt.. When she passed, I went back to the 12's because I had more ammo for them and loading supplies.. I am again leaning to the 20 as age makes a lighter gun more appealing.. I have shot some trap with the 20 and I could never quite match my score with the 12.. Maybe I didn't try hard enough, but the 870 20's are fine arms.. I bought these new around 2005...

I think you will find an 870 in 20 gauge lacking on trap and any long sporting clay target.
Run some 2 3/4 dram 1 1/8 oz 1145 FPS through your 1100 and go brake targets. You will be
miles ahead in the long run. Maybe get a light contour choke tube barrel too?

If you still have the 12 ga 1100, you can't do much better. If not, try to find an older, well cared for 1100 at a pawn shop or on the used rack at your LGS. Gun fit is everything! it's as close to a "do all" shotgun as you can get.

My dad had an 1100 TB 12 ga trap gun that he put about 200,000 rounds through. Eventually,it cracked the receiver. He sent it back to Remington and they replaced the receiver and rebuilt the gun at no charge.

You should be getting a lighter gun with the 20 ga but recoil will be similar. I would look for a 20 ga semiauto for lighter weight with somewhat lower recoil. My preference is a Beretta 309/391 but there are several others such as Browning, Franchi, Remington, et al that will also do fine.

You will not do as well with a 20 ga as with a 12 ga for trap and sporting clays, expect 3-5 birds per 100 as a general rule depending on course and skill. I don't know a single person who truly believes score doesn't matter- it may not be utmost on their mind but it costs the same to hit the bird as it does to miss and missing sucks. I shoot a 20 ga regularly for sporting clays and my long term average is below that of the 12ga. If shots never get past 25 yards like skeet then there isn't much difference but if they do you will find the 12 ga to pull away.

As for your current gun, more use will make it seem lighter by building up muscles not normally used as would more appropriate loads. Every spring my wife complains about the weight of her Beretta 391 sporting clays gun but after a couple weeks of regular shooting she doesn't mention it. She uses Winchester AA Xtra-lites or the equivalent 1 oz load at 1180 fps for competition with no problems. Those are the same loads I use for sporting clays shoots I think important though I pick up the velocity when shooting FITASC or other event where the shots are long.

Why not find a nice 1100 in 20 gauge? That would be your best route.

An 870 in 20ga would not be a bad choice for what you want to do. I also shoot LH and use an 870 12ga for trap and skeet. I also use an Ithaca M-37 20ga with a fixed full choke for trap. I do not find the 20ga to be a problem with shooting trap either. The less recoil of the 20 makes a nice difference.

Good luck in your decision.

Jim, for the outlay, and being a lefty, your plan is flawless.

The stock:receiver interface can be finessed a bit to fit you even better, if you'd like. And as to recoil, you can buy flats of 7/8oz Herter's shells at Cabelas for about $54/flat. Done. And there is no reason you can't enjoy shooting any of the games with a 20ga in Mod.

Nothing wrong with an 1100, either, but they do like to be kept clean. The 870 doesn't care!

Finally, yeah, the Beretta 391 would be ideal re: recoil sensitivity if entry fee is no object. But heck, get in the swing of things with a nice wingmaster and if enjoying yourself can always treat yourself to a 391 later.

As you will recall, having fun requires a decent fit, decent technique, and a good attitude. The guns name is a distant fourth.

http://www.tristararms.com/products/semi-automatic-shotguns/viper-g2-series/viper-g2-sporting/


we have one for the grandkids to shoot 4H trap with and we like it


adjustable comb , and shim adjustable stock


comes with 4 chokes ; skeet thru full

I appreciate everyone's feedback and suggestions. Went out Thursday night and Sunday to Cabela’s and Sportsman’s WH to try as many different guns as could be found - pump, semi-auto and O/U. As before, too many of them just don’t point well for me, including a very nice Beretta 391 12 gauge. Several of them had cast off for a right hander so once again I was looking down the right side of the barrel. The various Benelli semi-autos are very nice and lightweight (and spendy) and handled well but still just a bit off when mounted, I end up looking a bit over the barrel and have to scrunch my cheekbone down hard on the comb. Only found one 1100 at all, a .410 and as far as I could see it’s still built on a 12 gauge frame, at least it was far more bulky than one would imagine for that skinny barrel.

But once again, a 20 gauge 870 found at SWH fits perfectly and is definitely lighter than even the .410 1100. A natural mount puts my eye looking squarely down the center of the barrel with both beads lined up.

The most practical choice would be to stick with my tried and true 1100, it has never failed me. A couple years ago I bought a new Rem-choke barrel for it to allow more versatility than the original Mod barrel but patterning shows it shoots a tad low and right, not sure how to correct that. The fixed Mod barrel patterns are centered on the bead.

While a 20 gauge might cost a few targets that’s not a huge deal, even when I was shooting trap or skeet fairly regularly I was a 22-24 bird shooter on a good day. Been a rifle/handgun shooter 98% and a shotgun shooter 2% most of my life even though I do enjoy the action of shotgun targets. Part of what prompted me to think of a new gun is that our local rifle range which I had enjoyed immensely for several years seems to be undergoing some nasty changes due to what appears to be a power hungry, controlling petty government bureaucrat locking everything down and issuing edicts right and left. However, a really nice shotgun range is literally 60 seconds further down the road (Boise Gun Club for those in the area) so I was thinking of a bit of a paradigm shift in my shooting hobby.

I guess mostly here I was looking for justification for a new toy and a used 870 seems like a good way to try one out without too much outlay, and being so ubiquitous they are not that hard to sell should it not work out. Plus, a few years ago a fellow gave me four full boxes of various 20 gauge loads, mostly Winchester in the old red and yellow boxes, so thinking like a rifle loony I need a 20 gauge shotgun to go with them…

Beretta semi-autos come with shims to change cast to left hand. Also for comb height. Benelli probably the same.

I wouldn't recommend the 870, or any pump action for trap or skeet,

I actually wouldn't buy any pump action today for any reason. Most people justify it as an entry level gun or claim that it's a for defensive use.

Today there are many semi-auto's that are very reliable, lighter weight, and affordable.

And I don't care how reliable anyone claims a pump to be over a semi because the truth is that every pump will hiccup eventually. I've been to enough shotgun courses to see it happen even by guys who most of us would consider pro's.

My advice for the OP would be look at 20 ga semi-auto's such as the Weatherby SA08, Mossberg SA-20, and the Stoeger M3020. These are affordable and I see lots of them on the range. The wealthier older shooters use nicer guns like the Perezzi but even today I saw a new one fail mid shoot. The owner was disappointed and confused!!

For my kids I bought each of them a Stoeger M3020. At first I was hesitant to buy a cheaper gun but I liked how light weight they were so I figured I'll try one. Today I own three of them, and all have been 100% even with light target loads. These are sub $500 guns, inertia driven and weigh 5.5 lbs.

Good luck,

I would guess a pump will hiccup, but autos hiccup more often at the shoots I have attended..

I've seen more guys short stroke a pump action during timed drills than I've seen semi-auto's fail. Everyone who's shot a pump enough has short stroked it.

No reason not to get an a used 870 20 gauge for informal target shooting. There's a lot to be said for using a gun you like and have confidence in but I'll bet you break more birds with a 1100 or whatever gas operated semiauto you try.

So why even suggest spending the $200-$300 on an 870 when that could go towards a semi? You know the OP will in short order end up upgrading so why encourage wasting the money?

The Mossberg SA-20 is often on sale for under $400, and works really well. The Weatherby is almost the same gun, even shares the same stocks.

Here's Randy Wakeman's video battle of the 20's,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7gAiv-rdcQY

He's shooting a nicer walnut version of the SA-20 but the synthetic stock version is same only costs less. I looked at these very closely and they are very nicely made guns.

I decided on the Stoeger M3020 only because it's lighter weight and when it came time to order the 3rd one I came really close to getting the walnut SA-20, but thought no I'll just stick with the same model only camo instead of black.

My trap and skeet club has all sorts of guns and the SA-20 and SA08 are doing really well. I believe only one other person has a M3020 and he's a friend of mine. His is great, and all three of mine have been great.

I recently sold my 1187 20 but it was great too, soft shooting, and the only reason I sold it was because it was noticeably heavier than my M3020's. When you hunt with a 5.5 lb gun it's real hard to go back to a 7 lb gun that does the same thing!

Anyway, my point is, there's no reason to limit yourself to a pump gun today!

Went out and shot a round of trap today with the old 1100 to get reacquainted with it. I put the original fixed Modified choke barrel on it since that's pretty good for 16 yard trap and used some sporting clay loads bought some 3 years ago, 3 1/2 dram, 1 oz. of 8's at 1350 fps. A bit hot for target loads but they worked. I haven't shot a round of trap or skeet since 1994 but managed to break 20 birds and was getting back into the "swing" of things after about 15 shots, busting and dusting them pretty good instead of just chipping off a few pieces.

Three or four times I pulled the trigger and nothing happened. If I worked the action again it would fire, or I'd have to pull the trigger, release and pull again to fire. As much as it embarrasses me to say it, that gun hadn't been completely disassembled and cleaned in 54 years since my father gave it to me for Christmas in 1964. I've cleaned the outside of the operating assembly and anywhere you can reach with the forend off and the bolt back but never in the trigger or bolt assembly. Watched a youtube video on complete disassembly, took it all apart and, well, it wasn't pretty. Not rusty but the trigger group especially was pretty gunked up. It's a testimony to the reliability of this old Model 1100 that it still fed and ejected like it did for all these years. Cleaned all of the gunk and fouling off everywhere and oiled it up so it's good for another 54 years...

Anywho, while it's nice to chase a wild hair and look for new stuff, today convinced me to stick with what's never let me down, this 12 gauge 1100. I will treat myself to a new shooting vest, at least.

That only tells us you have seen people who don’t know how to work a pump shotgun. Everyone who has also shot a semi enough has seen it hiccup. Pumps best semis for reliability every day.

every used 1100 I have ever looked at needed a good cleaning, I doubt any of them had even had the powder reside removed from the magazine tube in decades. I am down to one in 20 ga, love that soft-shootin' thing!

OP is keeping his 1100 as he should!