Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Handguns What CCW gun for jaguar?

Ohio7x57; All,

Fwiw, ALL Jaguars in Latin America will take/kill/eat humans IF they get the chance.
I suspect that humans look like "several slow-moving, easily-caught, tasty meals" to El Tigre but nothing more than that.
(When we worked with the local Indios "way down there", MANY "lost or strayed children" became meals for El Tigre, though some unwary/unarmed adults also were preyed upon. - After such an incident, ALL that usually is found, if anything is found after a person is "taken", are small pieces of well-chewed bones & bits of bloody clothing.)

Much of the "usual diet" of the jaguar is monkey. = We humans too are primates & thus regarded as "meals W/O wheels".

yours, tex

Yep, size is one of the incidental differences between Jaguars and Leopards. That's insignificant when it comes to species classification. The same species can vary significantly in average size based on where they are found and how long they've been reproductively isolated from one another.

Jaguar and Leopard, side by side.



PS There was, until about 11,000 years ago, a subspecies of lion living in North America, which differed from its very close African cousin (the modern Lion of Africa) only by being, on average, larger, and possessing a somewhat heavier coat.


Here they are, the modern African lion and the extinct American lion, depicted side by side.



Their differences are somewhat akin to those between the Bengal and the Siberian Tiger.

MM,

I'm not familiar with his name--I'll ask Bob if he knew him. To suffer an attack such as you mentioned--and survive it--is nothing short of amazing. Would imagine in addition to the stitches, he was likely put on some heavy duty antibiotics, with all of the bacteria they carry in their claws.

I know absolutely zero about these cats--have never even seen one.

I know some folks make light of his writings due to the hyperbole, but as a teen back in the early 1970's, I read several articles by Russell Annabel concerning the jaguar.

He was hired by some of the various ranchers in Mexico who were having problems with these big cats killing livestock. He used either a model 94 30/30 Winchester--or at other times--an autoloading 12 gauge shotgun stoked with magnum boosted #2's. I think these were far better choices than any handgun, whatever the rig. He used dogs, and as I recall, quite a number of them were torn up or killed. That would be tough to take...

Glock 20 with Buffalo Bore, heavy, hard cast.

.40's drop pitbulls very well.

Hi-Vel; deflave,

Pardon me for pointing out that Pitbulls are NOT jaguars & aren't 300-400 pounds of muscle/bone/claws/teeth. - I know of one El Tigre "way down there" who survived a shot in the chest by a 7x57mm Mauser from 30-40M long enough to severely maul the shooter & then disappear into the jungle. NO body was ever found, so we don't even know if the cat died.
(The shooter couldn't get off another shot, as the Model 93 Mauser jammed. = Those people who didn't clean/lubricate their firearms every day often had that problem, when working in the dripping jungle.)

That's why I carried a 12-gauge "sawed-off" DB loaded with #1 magnum buckshot all the time when we were in "jaguar habitat". = At pointblank range buckshot will "turn" most any critter, with the possible exception of a charging elephant..

yours, tex

You mean, what ccw gun to carry with which to shoot oneself once caught and being gnawed upon by said jaguar? Well hell, you takes your pick.

Rhino?

TheRealHawkeye,

The famous PH Harry Selby "turned" a wounded/charging rhino in 1954 with a double-barreled PURDEY shotgun. - I would presume that the DB was loaded with buckshot, though Robert Ruark didn't identify the load..

RSA Senior Game Ranger Leonidas H. Geist in 1962 literally decapitated a wounded lioness at "about one long step" away with a load of buckshot out of his trusty 16 x 16 x 9.3x74mm drilling. - He later described the result as "a near thing."

ADDENDA: Lord Robert Baden-Powell (YEP, the founder of the Boy Scouts) said in an article for THE LONDON SUN that he witnessed a man named Thomas Matthew Obenga "peel a wounded leopard off of a British LT, using a .303SMLE bayonet". = Lord Baden-Powell said that it was "The bravest act that I've yet witnessed."
As a result, PVT Obenga was promoted to SGT, The Kings Royal African Rifles.

yours, tex

Well, I know hound hunters whose dogs have bayed up jaguars here in the states. One carries a double action .38 Special and the other carries a single action .357. None of he animals were shot--they were just photographed and let go. (They are classified as "endangered" under the ESA, and the last guy to kill one here in the U.S. spent some time in prison.) One has had the good fortune to have his dogs bay up two over the years--both big males. His photos are pretty impressive.

mudhen,

Here in TX, jaguars are listed as "invasive species" & as "vermin". According to TX law invasives, "- - - - - may be taken day or night, by any otherwise lawful means."
(I had no idea that any "invasive species" are protected by federal law/regulations.)

yours, tex

Pardon me but I was replying to Hi Vel who had mentioned dangerous dogs.

Jaguars are hardly an "invasive" species in Texas--their original range in the U.S. extended from southern Louisiana to southern California, and there are historical records from Texas as far north as the Red River. Texas Parks and Wildlife lists jaguars as an "extirpated" species--one which once inhabited Texas but which is no longer considered resident. However, there have been a few verified sightings of jaguars in far south Texas in recent years.

Federal protection for the species in the United States has resulted in a flurry of recent sightings in New Mexico and Arizona--and even the re-estalblishment of a couple of resident males in southern Arizona. Networks of trip cameras in southern Arizona now document the comings and goings of occasional wanderers from the breeding population in Tres Rios region of Sonora about 100 miles south of the border. Judging by the number of fresh pelts that turn up from time to time, they are fairly common in Chihuahua, south of us here in the Boot Heel of New Mexico, as well.

Were those guys intentionally baying jaguars, or were the jaguars unintentionally bayed as they were hunting mountain lions?

Jaguars are also present in Quintana Roo, Yucatan. I was warned not to venture into a section of jungle adjacent to an off the beaten path bar and restaurant that I frequent when I'm diy fishing down there. There have been many sightings, including some black jaguars.

local_dirt,

I would LOVE to see/photograph a BLACK jaguar. - Always heard reports of black cats from the Indios down there but I wasn't ever that lucky.
(I saw a "fairly dark" pelt but nothing that could be called black.)

yours, tex

Tex, google it. There are pics out there. A black jaguar was what I was specifically warned about in that area.

They were hunting mountain lions in all three instances. They had no idea that they had a jaguar until they caught up with the dogs. Good stories, but I won't relate them here.

Google Warner Glenn's book, "Eyes of Fire," and Jack and Anna Mary Childs' book, "Ambushed on the Jaguar Trail".

I was pretty sure you were talking about Warner Glenn. He's a hound man legend.

mudhen,

The late Mr. Richard D "Red" Rhea was a "hound man of note" from Gilmer, TX in my boyhood & one night his pack of Treeing Walkers treed a jaguar near Mercedes, TX about 1956-58. (I don't remember the year exactly but remember Mr. Rhea recounting his story more than once.). - He shortly thereafter called off the hounds & ended that night's hunting because of a heavy rain/wind/thunder storm coming up.
(Mr. Rhea was one of my dad's best friends during his USAAC WWII service & until his passing about 1960.)

yours, tex