Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Cowboy Action Shooting Colt SAA unique load with xtp bullets

Is 8 grains of unique to much for a Colt SAA army in 45 Colt with the Hornady 250 grain xtp bullet?
Never cared for non jacket bullets because of severe leading I saw in guns growing up.
What is a good Colt saa load for the xtp 250gr. Using other powders besides unique?

Understand, I don't own an SAA, only shot a couple. This is based solely on what I've seen my own Ruger .45 Colts do and what I've READ about SAA's.

Assuming the SAA in question if of fairly modern manufacture (postwar)I'd be pretty comfy with that. How well and how far out an XTP will expand at 800-850 fps is another question.

Take up bullet casting. Leading is simply an indication that your gun and your bullets have a dimensional issue with each other, or that you are using an improper alloy for the job. Done right, lead ceases to be an issue (at least in a bad way). He who handloads can do a lot. He who casts his own boolets, can do anything.

Keekeerun,

If that's the bullet of choice for you, 8gr Unique would be fine. Personally, I wouldn't go above that.

Keep in mind that "hard cast" bullets are quite often too hard and will lead the bore badly. A softer bullet has been better for my purposes and don't lead nearly as much, if any.

I used to buy the Speer Swaged 230gr RN and 200gr SWC and shoot them for practice and plinking. I just looked at Midway, and they offer both the 200gr SWC & the 230gr RN for ~$54.00/500. The 255gr SWC is ~$59.00/500.

I loaded 6gr of Unique under the 230gr RN and 7gr Unique under the 200gr SWC for fun, light, and very accurate loads. 7gr Unique under the 255gr Speer swaged SWC shot to point of aim with my old SAA and a Ruger Blackhawk.

I used the 6g unique/230gr RN as a load when teaching new SA revolver shooters. Very accurate, low recoil, and allowed them to succeed.

I'm sure there are other powders that will do just as well, if not shoot a lot cleaner than Unique, but I'm old school and don't mind cleaning brass.

Unique, particularly in the lighter loads, doesn't produce much pressure and will sometimes fail to expand the cases, so you get a lot of soot on the outside of the brass. A healthy crimp can cut down on this, but it is still dirty.

Ed

Red Dot is a great .45 Colt powder for moderate loads. Clean and accurate.

Agree with bullet casting. Good cast bullets work great in those big bore guns.

If you're into CAS, wanting low powered loads, Unique is not a good choice. Burned hot, it's pretty good.

Clays has been popular with some CAS shooters.

DF

Got sooty cases and loads seemed wimpy.
I am gonna try imr4227 and see how it goes.iam over unique.
Has anyone tried the .452 Berry's bullets? Will the load data for them need to be lead or jacketed?
Thanks for all the help

4227 didn't burn completely for me. Grains of powder everywhere.
But, it's been over twenty years, I don't remember the load, and I gave up
pretty quick and went back to Unique or Universal.

Ok I will try hs-6
I only wanted imr because of the good case fill,but sure don't need lots of unburnt powder......
Thanks for the help.
I will be shooting the xtp in a gen.3 Colt SAA

W231 is very very close in burn rate to Unique. Few simple rules about leading.Leading at the forcing cone usually means you are pushing the velocity is too slow for a hard bullet.If leading is at the muzzle the bullet is too soft for the high velocity.
So push the bullet a little faster if it is hard and a little slower if it is soft.
For hard cast bullets, check out Dardas Cast Bullets
It would also help if you slug your bore and then order a cast bullet .001 -.002 bigger. Dardas is one company that you can do that with.

Working out the problems with leading is easy to do with a little experimenting.Shooting cast bullets, if you shoot a lot, is a big $$$ saving.

Hornady Manual , Third Edition,shows for a TC or Ruger BH and 250 gr XTP loads from 9.1 gr (1050 fps) of Unique up to 11.3 gr of Unique for a velocity of 1250 fps, but those would be too hot for your gun

My older 45 Edith Lyman shows for that bullet a Max load of Unique to be 9 gr, at 90 1FPS, 8 grs is listed as 813 fps. Two other powders listed are SR4756 , and IMR 4227. 4227 being 19 gr for 823 fps and max load at 22 gr at 1017fps. The IMR 4227 would give you better case densities,but no good if you get a lot of unburned powder. A heavy crimp and hotter primer might fix that


An even older Lyman manual from1964 does not list the semi jacket,but a 250 gr cast bullet shows 8 gr of Unique again but a higher max load that I won't post.
So you might be better sticking with softer bullets from Missouri Bullet or Bonus bullets if they are still in business if you would like to go cast

If you want to avoid leading, try polymer coated lead bullets. There's plenty of makers now, so you don't even have to cast them yourself. They're cheaper than jacketed, gas checked lead, or plated lead, are legal for CAS, and leave no leading or copper fouling up to at least 2300fps (30/30 speeds). I cast and coat my own, and use nothing else now. If you cast, it's even better as you can use cheaper low antimony content lead since the advantage of hardness becomes irrelevant under coating, and the softer alloys fill the bore better.
Run any powder under its ideal pressure range, and you'll get soot. Exceptions are the super fast handgun/shotgun powders like Bullseye, Red Dot, Clays, Clay Dot,etc, where you trade the risk of double charges and position sensitivity for the sootiness of running a medium burning powder at too light a pressure. For Unique, I tend to load a range of weights, then work up until I don't get soot or unburned particles. For my SAA clone, 250gr lead RNFP with Unique in .45 Colt, this is usually in the 7.2gr-7.5gr range with Winchester or CCI LP primers. YMMV depending on cases, primers, seating depth and bullet.

I believe Brian Pearce did a complete work-up on the 45 Colt, a few years back - including different categories/pressures, and suggested which pistols were suitable for each.
I'd research Handloader magazine.

No, I used to use a load of 8.5 grains of Unique with a 250 grain projectile. Alliant lists 9.5 grains as maximum.

In large low pressure applications such as the .45 Colt or .44-40 I dislike W231 as it doesn't burn cleanly. Unique did better. Recently I have switched to Power Pistol in place of unique (note, I do not substitute PP for Unique). But, PP behaves similarly and I feel may burn a bit more cleanly.

Another powder that behave similarly is Universal.

I believe this is the cheapest and best answer. Hasbeen

What are some good coated bullets for a .357 and .44???

I just discovered this thread, and, by chance, I was shooting my Ruger Blackhawk 45 Colt with a load of 8 grains of Unique and a 255 grain lead bullet yesterday. The bullet was definitely going too fast as I had lots of lead fouling. The first six shots went into a nice group (Off a rest), but the rest of my shots went wild. When I got home I found lots of lead fouling. I found the 8 grain starting load in an old Lyman manual from the 1960s. When I checked it in a more recent Hornady manual, something like 4.7 grains was the starting load. I'm going to have to look into these polymer coated bullets.

That might not be an issue of going too fast, the bullets could be undersized for the bore ... flame cutting of the lead bullets causes heavy leading.

I always believed Unique was filthy.

It was in light 38, 44, and 45 Colt loads.

Then I started using it in 9mm.
Pretty dang clean with a little pressure.

If buying:
Missouri Bullet Company (and many others) have a variety of good RNFP designs, which I favor as a general purpose revolver/rifle bullet.
Also search for Hi-Tek, which is also popular.
You can run them light and fast, or big and heavy, without gas checks or the mess of soft or hard bullet lubes.
I tend to stick to black for my home rolled. You might want to avoid using copper or bright colors at cowboy matches, just to avoid the ribbing.

If you cast your own, go to Night Owl Enterprises for their "RG" hollowpoint/RNFP changeable molds. Epoxy powder coat is available just about anywhere. Tumble the bullets around in a plastic container (cool-whip,etc) so the powderstatic sticks, then dump on a tray made of wire/screen with foil underneath to catch excess powder. Pop that in a toaster or convection oven for curing at the powder's recommended temperature. The powder coat will flow a bit to fill missed spots. Usually only one coat needed. They'll pop off with some slight surface defects...immaterial for cowboy action or pistols in general. I then size with cheap Lee sizers as the coat adds .001-.002". You can get fancier and make super nice looking bullets with other techniques.

if a boolit is sized and lubed properly they do not lead enough to mention! but if you want to shoot condom clad boolits that is your business. I shoot cast in rifles up to 1800 fps with no heavy leading with straight WW lead. a great load for the 45LC is a 250gr jacket or lead with 19gr of H4227 and a mag. primer. the mag primer is to be used because 4227 is a slow powder. I got this load from hank Williams jr. and have shot many thousands of rounds and burned a lot of that powder. another great load is 16gr of 2400 and a standard primer,,,,,,,

Dirty?

Shoot it hot, it's not.

Shoot it slow, it is.

There are a host of better CAS powders.

Genl use and for hunting, it's great.

DF

You can't hardly beat Red Dot for target loads in the .45 Colt.

DF