On the left is a 400 grain Speer. On the right is a 500 grain Hornady DGX.
Shot some loads Sunday evening with IMR 4064 and the Speer 400 grain bullet. Going to go out and try the best shooting one soon. It is 101.0 grains of IMR 4064 and a CCI 250 mag primer. Average velocity for 3 shots was 2497 fps.
Life Member SCI Life Member DSC Member New Mexico Shooting Sports Association
Take your responsibilities seriously, never yourself-Ken Howell
As far as the recoil,it is not bad. It has a Pendleton muzzle brake and that helps. I don't load it to the gills,just where it has the accuracy and velocity I want.
Life Member SCI Life Member DSC Member New Mexico Shooting Sports Association
Take your responsibilities seriously, never yourself-Ken Howell
Ten years back I went onto a sporting goods store in Reno, Nevada. On the shelf was a like new Weatherby rifle in 460. Included was a box of eighteen cartridges and two spent shells. While I’d heard this is the norm, however this is the one time I’ve seen it.
The 460 has the same powder capacity as the 416 rigby and the relatively new 450 rigby. The 460 could be loaded down to those pressure levels. Less pain, more gain.
Did Weatherby ever make them without the built in brake? There was one on here I inquired about but to get rid of the brake, the barrel had to be cut to 22".
I paid a dollar to shoot a .460, sans scope, many years ago. Worst dollar I ever spent.
I'm a nicer guy than that and never charge anyone to shoot my big guns. I usually just tell my friends, "hey, I'm having a hard time zeroing this. Will you shoot it?" and never mention that it's a .404 or Rigby or whatever.
The 460 has the same powder capacity as the 416 rigby and the relatively new 450 rigby. The 460 could be loaded down to those pressure levels. Less pain, more gain.
If I was a real man, I'd get me one of those, load it with a 350 grainer to 3000 fps and go elk hunting. Just kidding, no harm meant. Anything that regularly takes over 80 grains of powder is too much fun for me. But I'd really like to see it in action.
I have shot the 350 grainer at 3000 fps. The bolt knob pounds the first knuckle on my trigger finger. If shot enough (more than 3 rounds) it will draw blood.
The 400 grain at 2500 fps is good enough.
Last edited by elkhunternm; 08/16/18.
Life Member SCI Life Member DSC Member New Mexico Shooting Sports Association
Take your responsibilities seriously, never yourself-Ken Howell
I bet it does draw blood. At my advanced age I've gotten used to both my retinas. If I had your rifle I'd have a brake that would make an Abrams tank weep with jealousy. And I'd wear a outfit like that Nazi gun crew on the Guns of Navarone when on the bench...
I bet it does draw blood. At my advanced age I've gotten used to both my retinas. If I had your rifle I'd have a brake that would make an Abrams tank weep with jealousy. And I'd wear a outfit like that Nazi gun crew on the Guns of Navarone when on the bench...
I like this guy!
Originally Posted by 16penny
If you put Taco Bell sauce in your ramen noodles it tastes just like poverty
I bet it does draw blood. At my advanced age I've gotten used to both my retinas. If I had your rifle I'd have a brake that would make an Abrams tank weep with jealousy. And I'd wear a outfit like that Nazi gun crew on the Guns of Navarone when on the bench...
It has a brake. The recoil is not that bad and I wear a PAST Mag recoil pad while shooting off the bench.
I have no problems using it hunting.
Life Member SCI Life Member DSC Member New Mexico Shooting Sports Association
Take your responsibilities seriously, never yourself-Ken Howell
Its my understanding the 460 shooting factory ammo is cranking 93 foot pounds of recoil. 375 H&H is doing 37 foot pounds (my limit). I'm jealous of anyone who has the mental and physical fortiude to shoot at that level well.
I have shot the 350 grainer at 3000 fps. The bolt knob pounds the first knuckle on my trigger finger. If shot enough (more than 3 rounds) it will draw blood.
The 400 grain at 2500 fps is good enough.
If it wasn't such an expensive gun, this would fix the problem. Worked for me and it doesn't change the bolt knob profile from the side.
Its my understanding the 460 shooting factory ammo is cranking 93 foot pounds of recoil. 375 H&H is doing 37 foot pounds (my limit). I'm jealous of anyone who has the mental and physical fortiude to shoot at that level well.
Not many, short of gunner and Ken, have the cajones to shoot those big cannons on a regular basis.
Gunner has a .505 Gibbs he uses on rocks, 'dillers, wabbits and assorted varmints. That gun started out as a .416 Rigby. He shot it out, had it rebored to .505G. How many do you know who have actually shot out a big boomer like that...
If I had your rifle I'd have a brake that would make an Abrams tank weep with jealousy. And I'd wear a outfit like that Nazi gun crew on the Guns of Navarone when on the bench...
You keep me spitting up my drink, Lee. The Guns of Navarone reference was perfect.
Its my understanding the 460 shooting factory ammo is cranking 93 foot pounds of recoil. 375 H&H is doing 37 foot pounds (my limit). I'm jealous of anyone who has the mental and physical fortiude to shoot at that level well.
I don't shoot factory ammo. My handloads are far easier on the shoulder and finger.
New Mexico jackrabbits are hard to kill and they have been known to charge!
Life Member SCI Life Member DSC Member New Mexico Shooting Sports Association
Take your responsibilities seriously, never yourself-Ken Howell
I have shot the 350 grainer at 3000 fps. The bolt knob pounds the first knuckle on my trigger finger. If shot enough (more than 3 rounds) it will draw blood.
The 400 grain at 2500 fps is good enough.
If it wasn't such an expensive gun, this would fix the problem. Worked for me and it doesn't change the bolt knob profile from the side.
DF
Yup,that would work.... maybe. It does not help that the bolt knob is checkered.
But,like you said,it is an expensive rifle.
Life Member SCI Life Member DSC Member New Mexico Shooting Sports Association
Take your responsibilities seriously, never yourself-Ken Howell
Sorta off the reservation (OP posting), but here is an Edge McWoody/FN/Shilen Swede. McM no longer offers the Edge with marble finish that doesn't have a black background, because the black carbon shell sometimes showed thru the finish. So, my McWoody Edge is no longer available. Ironically, it's one of the nicest McWoody patterns I have out of three.
DF
Thumb smudge picked up by the camera. Not a defect.
Did Weatherby ever make them without the built in brake? There was one on here I inquired about but to get rid of the brake, the barrel had to be cut to 22".
The Pendleton Dekicker muzzle break that Ken has on his rifle was the original brake on the .460's and continued on the many Japanese Howa build rifles until they were made in the US whereby the integral brake was changed to a screw off KDF style brake.
I personally like the Pendleton as it is less noisy that the current brake and achieves its goal of reducing the muzzle rise during recoil. This makes the Monte Carlo Design behave more like a classic style stock but without the pile driver effect such as you find with a Ruger Number 1 in .458.
I would much prefer to sue a Mark V in .460 than any Ruger number One in the .458's. John
When truth is ignored, it does not change an untruth from remaining a lie.
On the left is a 400 grain Speer. On the right is a 500 grain Hornady DGX.
Shot some loads Sunday evening with IMR 4064 and the Speer 400 grain bullet. Going to go out and try the best shooting one soon. It is 101.0 grains of IMR 4064 and a CCI 250 mag primer. Average velocity for 3 shots was 2497 fps.
That 400gn Speer will not hold up to velocities much over 2000 FPS as the jacket is paper thin and the bullets sometimes disappear in a blue mist before reaching the 100 yard targets. I tried it with the following: 400gn Speer FP 40gn Blue Dot 1720fps 2628FPE Fed 215 Primer 57gn 2400 2080fps 3844FPE Fed 215 Primer 58gn 2400 2120fps 3993FPE Fed 215 Primer 100gn IMR 4064 2500fps 5553FPE 110gn IMR 4064 2750fps 6719FPE
The 400gn Remington is a more stout bullet for lighter plinking and feral control in the .460.
John
When truth is ignored, it does not change an untruth from remaining a lie.
On the left is a 400 grain Speer. On the right is a 500 grain Hornady DGX.
Shot some loads Sunday evening with IMR 4064 and the Speer 400 grain bullet. Going to go out and try the best shooting one soon. It is 101.0 grains of IMR 4064 and a CCI 250 mag primer. Average velocity for 3 shots was 2497 fps.
That 400gn Speer will not hold up to velocities much over 2000 FPS as the jacket is paper thin and the bullets sometimes disappear in a blue mist before reaching the 100 yard targets. I tried it with the following: 400gn Speer FP 40gn Blue Dot 1720fps 2628FPE Fed 215 Primer 57gn 2400 2080fps 3844FPE Fed 215 Primer 58gn 2400 2120fps 3993FPE Fed 215 Primer 100gn IMR 4064 2500fps 5553FPE 110gn IMR 4064 2750fps 6719FPE
The 400gn Remington is a more stout bullet for lighter plinking and feral control in the .460.
John
John,I am using 101.0 grains of IMR 4064 and a CCI 250 Mag primer. In my .460 that load is averaging 2500 fps.
Here is what it does to a jackrabbit at around 70 yards.
In this picture,the rabbit was on the left side of the pic. The dark spot is where it was found.
John,do you think the Remington bullet is stout enough for deer or even elk?
Life Member SCI Life Member DSC Member New Mexico Shooting Sports Association
Take your responsibilities seriously, never yourself-Ken Howell
Its my understanding the 460 shooting factory ammo is cranking 93 foot pounds of recoil. 375 H&H is doing 37 foot pounds (my limit). I'm jealous of anyone who has the mental and physical fortiude to shoot at that level well.
Not many, short of gunner and Ken, have the cajones to shoot those big cannons on a regular basis.
Gunner has a .505 Gibbs he uses on rocks, 'dillers, wabbits and assorted varmints. That gun started out as a .416 Rigby. He shot it out, had it rebored to .505G. How many do you know who have actually shot out a big boomer like that...
Not many...
DF
LOL, by comparison my old 416 Rigby only had around 53 ft lbs free recoil, my 8 bore with a full load has around 200 ft lbs free recoil, that's an 800 gr round ball over 350 graing of FFg Black powder in a 10 lb rifle with a muzzle velocity of 1400 fps.
My 505 Gibbs and 577 Nitro run about 100 ft lbs each, with 600 gr Woodleighs at a sedate 2150 fps and 750 gr Barnes' at 2070 fps.
Elks 460 loaded full bore is no pussycat either, I used to have one and did take the 500 gr Hornadys all the way to 2800 fps, just to see if I could, brass only lasted a couple firings, did that with IMR-4350, iirc the charge was in the 128 gr neighborhood, loaded the rest to around 2550 after I got through playing.
Just ran Elks rifle with a top load, 500 gr bullets at 2700 fps with a 124 gr powder charge in an 11 pound rifle, free recoil is 98 ft lbs, quite the handful.
Just ran Elks rifle with a top load, 500 gr bullets at 2700 fps with a 124 gr powder charge in an 11 pound rifle, free recoil is 98 ft lbs, quite the handful.
Beautiful rifle. I would load it like the Rigby with a low pressure combination. Some say it works even better at the moderate velocities in the range of the 458 Lott.
Shot a 458 a fair amount and it's mainstay/jack rabbit load was a 350 gr. cast bullet. Performance was good and it made it fun to shoot and on the cheap too. Full power not so much as it was over my threshold. Shot it once prone never again and a standing bench is the way to go. Even though the 460 turns me into a cream-puff I have seen a number of women some very petite shoot it well. My alibi is E = MC2 the smaller gals just roll with the punch us heeman take it on the chin.
"When you disarm the people, you commence to offend them and show that you distrust them either through cowardice or lack of confidence, and both of these opinions generate hatred." Niccolo Machiavelli
I always wanted to own a real safari rifle so bought a CZ550 in 450 Rigby, which is almost identical to the 460 Weatherby. I wanted to see if I could develop an accurate load with acceptable recoil. I did a lot of testing with various bullet weights and powders and finally decided to have a load that looked serious so settled on Hornady 500gr DGS, everyone is impressed when they see my cartridges.
After some research and a lot of testing, my current load is 23gr of TiteGroup powder with Federal magnum primers. This is giving me 1.25" groups at 100yds. There have never been any signs of a pressure problem. The recoil while benchresting is acceptable and I am able to return home with my retinas and dental fillings still intact.
The really heavy thumpers I think I like reading about more than shooting them. I recall an etching of Sir Samuel Baker firing his two bore. He would have his gun bearer lean into him back to back before firing. This double could fire a one pound exploding round, almost a mortar round. Even Baker decided this was too much of a good thing and went back to his 8 bore and 577s. He was a large man and had no trouble carrying and swinging the eighteen pound doubles. At eighteen pounds and with the black powder loads these should have less recoil than the 460 at least the 577 not sure about the 8 bore.
"When you disarm the people, you commence to offend them and show that you distrust them either through cowardice or lack of confidence, and both of these opinions generate hatred." Niccolo Machiavelli
Gunner had 200 ft. lbs for the black powder load 8 boar and 100 for the nitro load in the 577. I think the Blk powder load was close to the same velocity so probably not a huge difference in recoil. 1800 vs 2000 fps?
"When you disarm the people, you commence to offend them and show that you distrust them either through cowardice or lack of confidence, and both of these opinions generate hatred." Niccolo Machiavelli
On the left is a 400 grain Speer. On the right is a 500 grain Hornady DGX.
Shot some loads Sunday evening with IMR 4064 and the Speer 400 grain bullet. Going to go out and try the best shooting one soon. It is 101.0 grains of IMR 4064 and a CCI 250 mag primer. Average velocity for 3 shots was 2497 fps.
That 400gn Speer will not hold up to velocities much over 2000 FPS as the jacket is paper thin and the bullets sometimes disappear in a blue mist before reaching the 100 yard targets. I tried it with the following: 400gn Speer FP 40gn Blue Dot 1720fps 2628FPE Fed 215 Primer 57gn 2400 2080fps 3844FPE Fed 215 Primer 58gn 2400 2120fps 3993FPE Fed 215 Primer 100gn IMR 4064 2500fps 5553FPE 110gn IMR 4064 2750fps 6719FPE
The 400gn Remington is a more stout bullet for lighter plinking and feral control in the .460.
John
John,I am using 101.0 grains of IMR 4064 and a CCI 250 Mag primer. In my .460 that load is averaging 2500 fps.
Here is what it does to a jackrabbit at around 70 yards.
In this picture,the rabbit was on the left side of the pic. The dark spot is where it was found.
John,do you think the Remington bullet is stout enough for deer or even elk?
Ken, I would use the Remington version at not much more than 2000fps for deer and rib case shots only. other wise meat loss will be a certainty. Remember the bullet, both Speer and Remington, were not made for the .460 velocity capabilities, in fact neither were some bullet commonly used .458 caliber bullets loaded in the .458 Winchester. The .460 is a big lift for the caliber and most of the negative commentary made on the .460 is by unqualified people. There is some utter drivel in print about this wonderful and versatile cartridge which can be loaded to your own personal tolerance. John
When truth is ignored, it does not change an untruth from remaining a lie.
Swift makes a 400 grain A-Frame which will hold up to the higher velocities. I will use the Speer just for rabbits and such and use the SAF for hunting big game.
Life Member SCI Life Member DSC Member New Mexico Shooting Sports Association
Take your responsibilities seriously, never yourself-Ken Howell
Ken, The Swift will be terrific. 116gn of 4064 or Varget will get you over 2900fps and I used to standardize on 110gn for 2750ps when the old 400gn Barnes X was around as that 2750fps was very accurate and replicated the .30/06 trajectory.
I also tried the 500gn Swift A-Frame and it too was extremely accurate, loaded over 122gn of IMR 4350 for 2660fps and shoots into the same groups as the cheaper 500gn Hornady. I grain more chronographed at 2678 which is pushing the 8000FPE the cartridge was rated at. Corrected to muzzle velocity would be there, as I only quote the 15 ft chronograph distance from the muzzle with my loads.
John
When truth is ignored, it does not change an untruth from remaining a lie.
DF, The .460 is an adventure. It can be loaded to your own tolerance, has a factory extended magazine these days, can be loaded from the bottom during stressful stalks with one still in the breech, aligns with the .30/06 for trajectory and remove the will to live on everything it is pointed at. On top of that, it is incredibly accurate. MOA is very ho-hum to a .460 Weatherby. My 5 shot groups have been as low as .6" at 100 yards in my prime. John
When truth is ignored, it does not change an untruth from remaining a lie.
DF, The .460 is an adventure. It can be loaded to your own tolerance, has a factory extended magazine these days, can be loaded from the bottom during stressful stalks with one still in the breech, aligns with the .30/06 for trajectory and remove the will to live on everything it is pointed at. On top of that, it is incredibly accurate. MOA is very ho-hum to a .460 Weatherby. My 5 shot groups have been as low as .6" at 100 yards in my prime. John
DF, The .460 is an adventure. It can be loaded to your own tolerance, has a factory extended magazine these days, can be loaded from the bottom during stressful stalks with one still in the breech, aligns with the .30/06 for trajectory and remove the will to live on everything it is pointed at. On top of that, it is incredibly accurate. MOA is very ho-hum to a .460 Weatherby. My 5 shot groups have been as low as .6" at 100 yards in my prime. John
Bet you shooting off a standing bench...
DF
No. The truth is, I have never seen a stand up bench before. John
When truth is ignored, it does not change an untruth from remaining a lie.
DF, The .460 is an adventure. It can be loaded to your own tolerance, has a factory extended magazine these days, can be loaded from the bottom during stressful stalks with one still in the breech, aligns with the .30/06 for trajectory and remove the will to live on everything it is pointed at. On top of that, it is incredibly accurate. MOA is very ho-hum to a .460 Weatherby. My 5 shot groups have been as low as .6" at 100 yards in my prime. John
Bet you shooting off a standing bench...
DF
No. The truth is, I have never seen a stand up bench before. John
Elmer Keith was a proponent of the standing bench for big guns. There are photos in his books.
The way Elk's bench is set up, seems he's more in an upright position relative to the butt stock, not too unlike a standing bench.
Benches where the shooter is crunched down, leaning way forward, isn't a good big boomer stance.
I got a set of long legs for my bench, just never set it up.
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