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John,

I was taken aback about your so-ready agreement that we are geezers.

Well then, I’ll just take that bull at midday, in a big meadow, right after I wake from my nap.

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Originally Posted by George_De_Vries_3rd
I’ll just take that bull at midday, in a big meadow, right after I wake from my nap.



This sounds like an aspiration!


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Did George say his SHV with MOAR was a 1FP? 😎


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Originally Posted by Beaver10
Did George say his SHV with MOAR was a 1FP? 😎

My SHV 3-10x42 with Forceplex is in a brown truck somewhere between there and here, so I haven't handled it yet.

I think its a SFP.

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Originally Posted by Beaver10
Did George say his SHV with MOAR was a 1FP? 😎


They are SFP.....

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cumminscowboy,

While I generally refrain from joining in on the derogatory comments that sometimes come your way on the optics forum, in this instance you apparently are pretty dumb.

Contrary to what you assumed, the scope in questions was a second focal plane. The reticle was simply incredibly thin.

Do you really expect I don't know that FFP reticles get "smaller" on lower power? Or how to tell the difference between a FFP and SFP scope, since I own a bunch of each?



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I was at Cabelas last week and they had a Nightforce SHV 3-10 return for $699 in the bargain cave. I looked through it and it was the MOAR reticle. I liked the layout but it was way too thin for me. I could tell it would be difficult to see in low light or dark timber. My favorite non duplex reticle is the one Leupold has in the VXR Patrol 3-9. It's a 2nd FF TMR that is really easy to pick up in low light. It's a great hunting reticle.


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Originally Posted by Mule Deer
cumminscowboy,

While I generally refrain from joining in on the derogatory comments that sometimes come your way on the optics forum, in this instance you apparently are pretty dumb.

Contrary to what you assumed, the scope in questions was a second focal plane. The reticle was simply incredibly thin.

Do you really expect I don't know that FFP reticles get "smaller" on lower power? Or how to tell the difference between a FFP and SFP scope, since I own a bunch of each?



Ouch!

laugh

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Originally Posted by scottfromdallas
I was at Cabelas last week and they had a Nightforce SHV 3-10 return for $699 in the bargain cave. I looked through it and it was the MOAR reticle. I liked the layout but it was way too thin for me. I could tell it would be difficult to see in low light or dark timber. My favorite non duplex reticle is the one Leupold has in the VXR Patrol 3-9. It's a 2nd FF TMR that is really easy to pick up in low light. It's a great hunting reticle.


I am a fan of the SHV, but I do think there is room for improvement with the reticles. It’s like they’ve chosen two extremes, some fine computer display suitable for a bench or shooting in open terrain, or the basic Plex, and a relatively fine one at that. Seems to me you could have a reticle that helps when in the dark timber at first or last light, but also provides some windage reference when you’re out in the open. Each situation is very common when big game hunting. Given that they dial elevation so well, I’d really just want some windage reference.

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I would as well, and they may eventually provide it. NF seems to be more open to customer desires than many other scopes companies.


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Originally Posted by prm
Originally Posted by scottfromdallas
I was at Cabelas last week and they had a Nightforce SHV 3-10 return for $699 in the bargain cave. I looked through it and it was the MOAR reticle. I liked the layout but it was way too thin for me. I could tell it would be difficult to see in low light or dark timber. My favorite non duplex reticle is the one Leupold has in the VXR Patrol 3-9. It's a 2nd FF TMR that is really easy to pick up in low light. It's a great hunting reticle.


I am a fan of the SHV, but I do think there is room for improvement with the reticles. It’s like they’ve chosen two extremes, some fine computer display suitable for a bench or shooting in open terrain, or the basic Plex, and a relatively fine one at that. Seems to me you could have a reticle that helps when in the dark timber at first or last light, but also provides some windage reference when you’re out in the open. Each situation is very common when big game hunting. Given that they dial elevation so well, I’d really just want some windage reference.


couldn't agree more, I think the problem is there just isn't that many people that would buy the scope. you and I would, but its either simple hunting scopes, which I don't think sell all that well either, or PRS wanna be's with 15# rifles and 3# truck axle tube scopes.

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Originally Posted by prm
Originally Posted by scottfromdallas
I was at Cabelas last week and they had a Nightforce SHV 3-10 return for $699 in the bargain cave. I looked through it and it was the MOAR reticle. I liked the layout but it was way too thin for me. I could tell it would be difficult to see in low light or dark timber. My favorite non duplex reticle is the one Leupold has in the VXR Patrol 3-9. It's a 2nd FF TMR that is really easy to pick up in low light. It's a great hunting reticle.


I am a fan of the SHV, but I do think there is room for improvement with the reticles. It’s like they’ve chosen two extremes, some fine computer display suitable for a bench or shooting in open terrain, or the basic Plex, and a relatively fine one at that. Seems to me you could have a reticle that helps when in the dark timber at first or last light, but also provides some windage reference when you’re out in the open. Each situation is very common when big game hunting. Given that they dial elevation so well, I’d really just want some windage reference.



I wish they would sell the German #4 in the US

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Well here is my assessment of my SHV without implying I’m any kind of rabid NF user. After shooting a whole summer, mainly working up loads for a 300 WSM at a 100 to 300 yards, I do like the scope. But it’s not a lightweight scope and not the best (or even good?) match for a real lightweight rifle IMO either.

Very subjectively, I find the glass gives my eye a little less “pop” than the very light, set-and-forget Z3’s, but it’s still very good. The elev turret — up and down — has shown repeatability and I think it is very dependable from what I can see (pun here). However, the scope is not a light weight as mentioned at ~ 21 oz. and not what I would consider, in any way, as a component of a “mountain rifle” concept. Purely personal opinion and deference here..

But, here is my main question: who decided the MOAR reticle is an “all-around” hunting reticle (if they did), or even an “all-purpose” reticle? I would have to raise my hand in that business mtg and say “I can’t go for that.” While nature “abhors a straight line,” it’s the ONLY thing I find that differentiates it from a pile of fine, shaded brush at any distance ..if, and it’s a big IF, you have the time and patience to search and “find Waldo” in it.

I’m a 500-yd shooter/ hunter under the best of conditions. I did no better on targets with the NF 3-10x SHV with the MOAR reticle on a 300 WSM, 7 3/4 lbs rifle, at that range than I did with my 9 oz Leupold 6x LRD on a 5 1/2 lb custom 284, which is my idea of a mountain rifle.

So, not to criticize the scope as much as this reticle, one has to be very honest as to their very specific needs — and you had better study that MOAR reticle pretty hard and maybe have 25 y/o eyes if you are considering it as a hunting reticle before buying it.

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You make some great points George.

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Originally Posted by Oldelkhunter
Originally Posted by prm
Originally Posted by scottfromdallas
I was at Cabelas last week and they had a Nightforce SHV 3-10 return for $699 in the bargain cave. I looked through it and it was the MOAR reticle. I liked the layout but it was way too thin for me. I could tell it would be difficult to see in low light or dark timber. My favorite non duplex reticle is the one Leupold has in the VXR Patrol 3-9. It's a 2nd FF TMR that is really easy to pick up in low light. It's a great hunting reticle.


I am a fan of the SHV, but I do think there is room for improvement with the reticles. It’s like they’ve chosen two extremes, some fine computer display suitable for a bench or shooting in open terrain, or the basic Plex, and a relatively fine one at that. Seems to me you could have a reticle that helps when in the dark timber at first or last light, but also provides some windage reference when you’re out in the open. Each situation is very common when big game hunting. Given that they dial elevation so well, I’d really just want some windage reference.



I wish they would sell the German #4 in the US

+1

I have the Forceplex SHV headed my way. I'd afraid it may be a fine duplex, but we'll see.

My ideal duplex is the VX-6. It's fine enough for precision shots, coarse enough to be seen at dim light.

I'm thinking about replacing the VX-6 2-12x42 on my 7RM with the 3-10x42 SHV, having more confidence in the NF elevation turret. I know some have had good luck with the CDS, haven't equipped my VX-6 with one, yet. I want a robust, full proof twisting scope on that rifle. It's not a real light weight, so a few extra ounces shouldn't hurt.

This gun is a MkV with #2 Brux in a McWoody Wby Express, has a Timney trigger and is very accurate. I hope the NF tube is long enough to fit the Talley LW's.

DF


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Oldelkhunter, I would also prefer a bold #4 (like Meopta’s) over the Forceplex. But I think they can do better than that. Give me 95% of the dark timber capability of the #4 and some windage reference, 4-5 MOA max, and I’ll be very happy.

George, I agree with you on nearly all accounts. I will say that I have found the SHV on my 84M to be a very nice combination (reticle aside). Certainly not as light as all the other scopes I’ve run on it, but the overall package feels surprisingly good. Mine is 6lb 9oz with SHV. With a few other scopes it was right at 6lb. Would I prefer if the scope was 12-15oz, yes, but I can live with it in that instance. My real issue with weight comes when putting the SHV on a rifle that isn’t as light to start, such as my walnut stocked Fieldcraft. That rifle feels better with a lighter scope than with the SHV.

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The Forceplex is my preference of the NF offerings for a hunting scope by a LONG shot....and it's still much finer than I would prefer. Make the heavy lines 1 to 1.5 MOA and the thin inner lines .25 MOA. The narrow opening between the plex gives a hold off of 2.5 MOA which is useful for windage.....I think it was prm who'd suggested a step-wise increase at 5 MOA for a second windage hold (or something to that effect).

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Originally Posted by JCMCUBIC
The Forceplex is my preference of the NF offerings for a hunting scope by a LONG shot....and it's still much finer than I would prefer. Make the heavy lines 1 to 1.5 MOA and the thin inner lines .25 MOA. The narrow opening between the plex gives a hold off of 2.5 MOA which is useful for windage.....I think it was prm who'd suggested a step-wise increase at 5 MOA for a second windage hold (or something to that effect).

How does the Forceplex compare to a VX-3 Duplex? Is it finer than that one?

I know it's gonna be finer than the VX-6 Duplex, which I really like.

My Z-3 has a rather fine duplex, but is usable. My Z5 duplex was so fine, I sent it back for a #4.

I await the arrival of my SHV with some concern about the Forceplex.

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Looking at the Leupold chart, it's difficult to compare to the NF because it appears each Leupold is different. The thick part of the Forceplex is .75 MOA FWIW.

The SHV/Forceplex is not bad. The glass is quite good and really excels as it gets darker. My "issue" with the scope is that the reticle is the limiting factor in very specific low light situations, not the glass. It is only a potential issue at first/last light, overcast, under a canopy, etc. and trying to point through a bunch of branches to a darker hide. Though a specific scenario, it's one I find not all that uncommon. I have scopes with bolder reticles that will work better for me than the SHV. I don't want to make it sound like I think the SHV/Forceplex is bad, it is actually quite good. But it could so easily be better!

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Yeah, losing the reticle before the glass give it up isn't that uncommon.

That's why I like the VX-6 duplex.

DF

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