Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Express Rifles and Big Bores Only 458 x 1.8" for Michigan deer hunting in Zone 3

Another Option:

For those with a Ruger 45-70 sitting around... I have been told (but haven't called them about it) that JES Reboring will bore out Ruger No.1's in 45-70 to 50-70 Govt.

The 50-70 case is 1.75 inches long.

Starline makes the brass, graf's also stocks it.

Jerry


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.50-70_Government

https://www.riflemagazine.com/magazine/article.cfm?magid=18&tocid=220

http://www.35caliber.com/8.html

Kinda brilliant. That would be fun to play with.

Seriously, I've spent 1/4 the day looking for an 'inexpensive' 45/70 based on the 50/70 idea.

And I don't even live in a screwed reg Yankee state.

My brother uses a single shot in 500 S&W.He's taken a few deer with it in southern Michigan, really likes it.

OK I've got to eat crow here... I called JES Reboring

They told me that you would probably run into trouble with the rim diameter on the 50-70 Govt. in a Ruger No.1

He recommended going with a 50 Alaskan which has a smaller rim diameter.

Though the 50 Alaskan is a straight walled case... it probably will not work in the 'restricted' states as the case is 2.1 inches long.

50 Alaskan brass is available from Starline; https://www.starlinebrass.com/brass-cases/50-Alaskan-Brass/

Jerry

It wouldn't be too much trouble to shorten a 50 Alaskan case to 1.8 and use 50-70 data.

I am one of many Michigan deer hunters that have simultaneously thought of shortening a rifle cartridge to comply with the new relaxed rifle rules allowing deer hunting in the traditional "shotgun zone". I have a Marlin 45-70 w/micro groove rifling, 22" barrel. My thought is to modify the brass without modifying the rifle which I love to use in Michigan's U.P. during firearm deer season. To this end, I have procured some 45 Caliber Speer 400 gr. jacketed SPFN bullets w/dual cannelure that will allow the bullet to be crimped out to maintain close to factory COAL specs with the brass shortened to 1.8" Don't know if this modified cartridge would cycle in the unmodified model 1895 Marlin 45-70 or not but seems worth a try. To repeat, I have no interest in modifying the Marlin rifle because it will still be my "go to" rifle in the U.P. My problem is I cannot figure out a reasonable way to shorten the 45-70 brass to, say, 1.79" (to be on the safe side). I have made phone contact with the DNR office in Lansing, MI and, spoke w/the Lieutenant in charge who was VERY familiar with this concept. Never mind the "Gun Shop Commandos" who claim to know everything about this and say I will be arrested and rifle confiscated, the good Lieutenant assured me that the C.O.'s are knowledgeable and can determine if the modified ammo does comply with the new law or not. Just DO NOT have any factory ammo on your person. Common sense to me. I have many years of reloading rifle and pistol ammo, several thousand rounds/year; mostly pistol ammo for competition. I do not need to load a lot of this shortened 45-70 ammo; just enough to develop a load and sight the rifle in before shootin' season. One at a time by hand is plenty fast enough for me. One perfect solution seemed to be to see if I could special order a shortened RCBS case forming die. They refused for "legal and liability" reasons. No prob I thought just order a 45-70 case forming die and have a machinge shop grind it down to size. Again, no go for the same reasons. Is anyone on 24 Campfire able to give me a clue on how to proceed? Much obliged for any advise and thank you.

Gerry Donovan

I don't quite get why you can't get that work done. The gun rags are full of stories about wildcat creations of all sorts. Those guys get custom dies to do whatever they want. Maybe a gunsmith would cut one down for you since he'd understand what you want to do.

If I had a good place to hunt in one of those zones, I'd just fork over $400-$500 bucks for a Henry Single Shot .44 or a .450 Bushmaster Ruger American.

You don't need a special "case forming die" to resize the shortened cases, just run them through your standard sizing die.

The long winded question was how to shorten the case, not resize it. I have never "wildcatted" a cartridge before, which is essentially what I wish to do with the 45-70 case. It needs to be shortened to 1.8" for this project. Looking for a reasonable and correct way to accomplish this. Thanks.

I just used my Lyman case trimmer.

Starline offers 45 Raptor brass IE 460 S&W rimless length 1.79 to 1.796 308 bolt face.

Not trying to interfere with loonyism but the simple solution might be the .44 mag. I've been using one for quite a few years; 300 gr of paper patched lead and a full charge of Li'l Gun. MOA with a red dot sight and I'd not flinch if faced with a shot a couple hundred yards out there. MV runs 1580-1600.

Gerry1 get a lee case trimmer for the 45/70 have a machine shop cut the trim length stud to what you want

There are quite a few options for the new 1.8” straight wall case law in Michigan. But my concern is if a chamber is not cut for a 1.8” case and is a standard 45-70 or say .444 marlin how is that different than having a duck plug that allows a 4 shell. I don’t trust our local officer would go along with as long as you don’t have factory ammo on you. I’m playing with a 444 case cut to 1.8 in a H&R to see how well it will work but don’t think I’m legal to hunt with the 444 marlin barrel with the shorter case.
I’m running 223 basic brass at 1.8” using.358 bullets. 2600 FPS with 180 gr. It’s a hammer.

Hope you all realize the .45-70 case is tapered.

True the O.D. of the case tapers but the brass thickness increases also, not at a 1:1 ratio, but trimming .3" doesn't cause much difference in I.D.. I seat the bullets to the same OAL as factory 405 gr softpoints. Since I use these in my Ruger No.1 I don't have to worry about a crimp, but I do run them back into the sizing die (with decapping pin removed) as kind of a taper crimp. Bullets are too tight to twist or pull with my fingers but I have not run any through my Marlin '95 so I can't vouch for whether they'll stand up to that abuse.


350gr left, factory 405 center, 400gr right.

That is ok as well as a belt. As long as there is no bottle neck.

Hey Fellers, thanks much for all the info and ideas. Had an epiphany and contacted LEE Precision, Inc via their web site. Turns out they will custom size their trim cutter to my specified length and send it to me. Total cost $23.32 to my mailbox. 8 week wait for this custom order. No prob and I am tickled to finally be on the way to completing this project. Hope it works; worst case scenario I am out $23.32 if it does not work in my Marlin 1895 Lever action. My back-up plan was to look for a .44 mag which would be an excellent idea anyway......