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Originally Posted by Morgancohunter
My Tikka T-3 Lite has shot every bullet I stuffed it with around MOA or less. It has a 1 in 10 twist. From 100 grain TSX, 100 gr BT, 110 AB, 117 Hornady RN interlock and the Hornady 120 gr HP, have all gone very well. Since my self imposed range limit is 250 yds, I use the 117 gr Hornady round nose for hunting. It lays the smack down just fine.

I know alot of folks shy away from round nosed bullets, but unless you are shooting serious long range, it wont make a major difference in trajectory. It has also been my expierence that they tend to open a wider wound channel faster then most pointed, non plastic tipped, bullets yet hold together for deep penetration.

That's good info.

Take a look at Gary Sciuchetti's [sp] famous 30 caliber 180 grain bullet test report. Look at the results for the plain old Remington SPCL (roundnose). It is the only bullet in the test that performed flawlessly over the entire velocity range from 1400 to 3100 fps. Perfect mushroom and not a single fragmented bullet - all the way up to 3100 fps.
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Originally Posted by AussieGunWriter
Hornady volume 11 lists a max of 53.8 grains using 4831 with the 120 grain bullet. Interesting is it not?

Yes, that is interesting. My Speer number 13 manual lists a maximum charge of 50.0 grains of IMR 4831 with their 120 grain bullets. This just further proves that the maximum loads in the reloading manuals are a guide, not an absolute. Don't get me wrong, I am NOT suggesting the data in the manuals are wrong or wimpy, just that results can vary between rifles and the people loading the ammo. I could show you several instances where maximum loads listed in reputable manuals are actually too hot (over maximum) in my guns. By the same token, some listed maximum loads are under maximum in some of my guns. Handloaders must NOT take published loading data so literally that they neglect to take proper precautions and learn how to recognize and interpret pressure signs. ALWAYS start 5-10 percent below the listed maximum.

But then, you already knew that, AussieGunWriter, so I'm preaching to the choir again. I did it on purpose though so folks don't get wrong ideas about published data. You understand. In fact, from reading your posts on this forum, it is obvious that you understand a great deal. I enjoy reading what you share. Thank you.

Post edited to add the following:

AussieGunWriter, the maximum load you mentioned in Hornady volume 11 - was it with H4831 powder or IMR 4831? As you know, those two powders are NOT the same. The heavier load you mention would seem more logical with H4831 because it is slightly slower burning than IMR 4831. The maximum loads that I posted were with IMR 4831. Please recheck your reference and post the answer lest we lead anyone astray. Thank you.

_

Last edited by Big_Redhead; 03/22/07.

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Big Redhead;

I still get angry when I think about all of the guns that I had stolen, the 25-06 hurt but I also lost the first 22 and the first shotgun that my father bought me.

The 22 was a nice Browning auto that he got me for Christmas when I was 12 years old. He was laid off from the factory at the time and I know that he sacraficed to buy that little gun for me.

When somebody steals a gun like that they are stealing more than just wood and steel, they are taking a little piece of something worth a lot more.


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I have a Ruger M77 in .25-06 with a 1:10 twist. With this rifle, Speer 120g Spitzer SP, and IMR 7828 I have a running group average of 0.606 inches. That is a compilation of about 20 groups with the smallest being 0.504. With the same bullet and VV N160, I have shot a 0.421 and 0.366 group.

With 115g Nosler Ballistic Tips with both IMR 4350/4831 and Reloader 22, I have shot multiple groups under 1/2 inch.

I suspect a 1:10 twist for 25 caliber is adequate for heavier bullets (115-120g).



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thanks ccrifles for pointing out my mistake! Meant to say cartridge! Keez just shoot what the hell you want out of 25-06 it will flatten them if you do your part! The main thing is it works for you stick with it because if you read everything here you will be second guessing your equipment forever!

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Originally Posted by Big_Redhead
Originally Posted by AussieGunWriter
Hornady volume 11 lists a max of 53.8 grains using 4831 with the 120 grain bullet. Interesting is it not?

Yes, that is interesting. My Speer number 13 manual lists a maximum charge of 50.0 grains of IMR 4831 with their 120 grain bullets. This just further proves that the maximum loads in the reloading manuals are a guide, not an absolute. Don't get me wrong, I am NOT suggesting the data in the manuals are wrong or wimpy, just that results can vary between rifles and the people loading the ammo. I could show you several instances where maximum loads listed in reputable manuals are actually too hot (over maximum) in my guns. By the same token, some listed maximum loads are under maximum in some of my guns. Handloaders must NOT take published loading data so literally that they neglect to take proper precautions and learn how to recognize and interpret pressure signs. ALWAYS start 5-10 percent below the listed maximum.

But then, you already knew that, AussieGunWriter, so I'm preaching to the choir again. I did it on purpose though so folks don't get wrong ideas about published data. You understand. In fact, from reading your posts on this forum, it is obvious that you understand a great deal. I enjoy reading what you share. Thank you.

Post edited to add the following:

AussieGunWriter, the maximum load you mentioned in Hornady volume 11 - was it with H4831 powder or IMR 4831? As you know, those two powders are NOT the same. The heavier load you mention would seem more logical with H4831 because it is slightly slower burning than IMR 4831. The maximum loads that I posted were with IMR 4831. Please recheck your reference and post the answer lest we lead anyone astray. Thank you.

_


Absolutely, good idea.
Hornady does not stipulate which powder was used but in the 1970's it was most likely the original war surplus 4831 which is definitely slower than the current and recently departed batches of 4831.

Something also to watch for, is that although there is a general feeling promoted among handloaders that the manuals are, or can be a little light on for maximum loads, I have actually seen examples where the loads quoted were way past frozen bolt stage for loads I had worked up in several rifles, the .416 Weatherby coming immediately to mind.

This is one of the reasons I do not review or use manuals any more.

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Keez,

I've bonked more than a few mule deer, whitetail and antelope with the .25-'06. You really need look no further than the 100-grain Ballistic Tip and RL-22.

The 100BT really electrocutes game animals, does minimal meat damage and shoots flat.

My experience has been that the .25-'06 is at its best with 100-grain bullets. This keeps the trajectory flat and the recoil low. If you use 120s, you might as well be shooting a .270 beause the recoil is noticeably heavier and the use of heavy bullets compromises the trajectory. The big .25 really shines with 100-grain bullets, so use them.

You are really not giving anything up by using 100s. Heck, even the Ballistic Tips almost always exit on big mule deer. The penetration is fine and the killing is superb...use the 100s.

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Originally Posted by dogzapper
If you use 120s, you might as well be shooting a .270

That's right. Heavier bullets make a small gun perform more like a bigger gun. smile
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The heavier bullets are not an option so far in this particular gun, maybe I'll find a 120 grain or 117 grain bullet that will shoot as well as the 100 grain bullets have. I have ordered some reloading equipment so I'll see if I can improve things going that way but ultimately this caliber is about accuracy for me. If the 100 grain bullets shoot best out of this gun then that is what I will shoot out of it. Besides, that will just give me an excuse to build a new one with a faster twist.

I was mainly interested to see if other hunters had confidence in the 100 grain bullet being able to take deer at 400 yards and that seems to be the case.


I appreciate everybody sharing their experience with me, it helps.


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Dogzapper is right on the mark.


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Originally Posted by Keez

I was mainly interested to see if other hunters had confidence in the 100 grain bullet being able to take deer at 400 yards and that seems to be the case.


Absolutely no problem killing big whitetail or mules with either the 100-grain Nosler Ballistic Tip or the 100-grain Hornady Spire Point Interlocked at 400 yards. Just shoot them clean through both lungs and they are totally dead-right-there.

I've done it many, many times and the .25-'06 with 100s is excellent.

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So I supose you think JB would be better off with a 120 grain ballistic tip the next time he goes moose hunting with his 7x57. I don't buy it. You'll never convince me the BT is anyhting more than a varmint bullet. I've tried too many of them too many times on too much game.
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Spoken like a true Field and Stream subscriber who's never tried the combo he's commenting on....

Nosler differentiates the "varmint" BT's and the "larger game" and for deer I would never, ever feel undergunned using a BT on them. Frankly I've never recovered one from a deer as they zipped through...

Preach on Mr. Dogzapper...

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The question was about mule deer and whitetails, and Dogzapper's answer didn't say anything about moose hunting.

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As a matter of fact, I killed my last moose with a 120-grain Ballistic Tip out of a .280 Ackley (3,400 fps MV). The range was precisely 91 yards, he ran out of the bush and stood in the middle of a farm two-track. I shot him exactly under the chin and the bullet removed a vertabrae (C-2 or C-3) on the way out. As far as I know, the Ballistic Tip is still in low orbit of the earth.

Perfect performance; bang-flop kill and maybe a half-pound of lost neck meat.

No, my choice for mooses would not necessarily be the 120-Ballistic, but I was hunting whitetail and they happened to be in the rifle. [bleep] happens.

I've killed more than three hundred head of big game with Ballistics and Hornady Interlockeds and I have no complaints. You'll get no apologies from me.

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i used the winchester factory 270 load of a 130 grain ballistic slivertip on mo. whitetails. as i type this i have 2 jackets i've recovered from deer. both deer mature does 1 shot at 75 yds and one a little over 140 yards both were drt. the entrance holes were fist size. i was a gut shot angling toward the chest and the other was a lung shot.
i like the bt, but from my experence their hard on meat, and a little fragile. i've killed over 30 deer with these loads, but have returned to regular plain jane cup and core bullets as i feel these are more consistent and dependable.


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Me thinks I should call Mr Gilbreath in texas, and get him to finally build me that prize 25-06 that I have always wanted!

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Quote
You'll get no apologies from me.


None were asked for or needed Steve. My comment about you not mentioning moose was directed toward the apples and oranges nature of the "BTs are varmint bullets only" post. But now you've gone and said they work on oranges too. grin

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Originally Posted by mathman
Quote
You'll get no apologies from me.


None were asked for or needed Steve. My comment about you not mentioning moose was directed toward the apples and oranges nature of the "BTs are varmint bullets only" post. But now you've gone and said they work on oranges too. grin

mathman


Friend Mathman,

Sorry friend, I wasn't actually replying to your comment. I used the dialog box at the bottom of the thread, rather than hitting "reply" to a particular person.

You and I really think alike and have had similar experiences.

Steve


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A few notes on what has been written already:

Big Redhead, the only Remington Core-Lokts that stil have the heavy jacket sidewalls of the original Core-Lokt are the round-nose models, such as the 180 RN used in Sciuchetti's test. All the rest have much thinner jackets, due to a manuafcturing (cheaper) change made in the late 1980's. This does not mean the 120-grain .25-06 CL factory load is a bad one (I have killed a bunch of deer with it to nearly 400 yards) but that we cannot extrapolate S.'s test to any pointed CL.

I have had excellent luck getting heavier .25-caliber bullets to shoot tiny groups in anything from a long-barreled (23"+) .257 Roberts n up. Below that velocity lever (say 2900 with 120's) and 100's do tend to shoot better in any .25. I would, however, get a 1-9 on a .250 Savage if I wanted to shoot heavier spitzers.

After using just about all the common .25's for deer for a long time, I have also come to the conclusion that 100-grain bullets will do it all, something I would not have said a few years ago. One thing rarely mentioned about the 100 Ballistic Tip (or indeed any lighter BT) is that the lighter weight means a higher jacket/core weight relationship. In other words, there is relatively more jacket than core thasn in the 115 .25 BT, which means a higher percentage of weight retention and, in general, a smaller diamter mushroom.

I also have had excellent luck with the 100 Nosler Partition and 100 Barnes Triple Shock. When driven at typical .25-06 velocities (or anything from handloaded .257 Bob velocities to .257 Wby. velocities, say 3200-3600 fps) all will do just fine on big deer.

John Barsness


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