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I have 2 Portagual assembled BARs. I got a 7mm with a leupold for 600 and a LNIB 308 for 650. I feel good about those purchases.
I have a opportunity for a 69 belgium 270 grade 2 condition 90% plus, with the elk and antelope etching. Price 900. Trying to figure out what kind of a deal this is.
Gunbroker is kinda all over the place from 700 to 1200. I dont know yet the prices and worth of the old belgium ones. Any info would be great. Thanks for the time .

FWIW, my gauge on this stuff is what it's worth to me, not what I stand to make on it later on after I'm finished drooling on it. I like old Brownings and have a reliable supplier when I get the itch.

Maybe you should check with a collectors' group or forum instead of a bunch of shooters.

Hey there Nugget, firstly welcome to "The 'Fahr"
Your question is valid. Various regions price certain brands and styles of guns differently. When I traveled Utah and Michigan regularly to visit family...I could for example buy Auto 5 shotguns reasonably in Utah and sell one now and then in Michigan for a good bit more. While in Michigan I could buy Winchester 12s reasonably and my dealer friends in Utah were happy to take all I could bring in at a good profit... for both parties. There is a local and a regional best price for most used guns.
Of course high grade Brownings with box and papers "ANIB" are always in demand...90% 'ers...not so much, unless you see several at your local range on sight in day.

Both have good points. Thanks for the input.

$900 sounds maybe a touch high but not too far out of line. It comes down to how much do you want the gun. I know I've paid a bit more than market average on a few guns over the years because they were ones I really wanted. I like BARs. My wife had one of the older grade 2s in 30-06 that we traded off back in our gun swapping days. I recently bought her a replacement, though not a grade 2. I don't think you'll get hurt at $900 on it.

Dad bought one of the first Belgian made Grade 1 BAR's and we called it the one shot automatic. Those early ones only had one ejector pin in the bolt face to kick the case out and it wasn't enough in dad's .308. The thing stove piped the fired case most of the time. We sold it for what we bought it for which back in the late 60's they were going for $165.00 new. The later BAR rifles had two ejector pins and were better. I always thought that they were too heavy especially in the magnum versions.

love my '06 bar. made by FN, assembled in portugal.

had a 300 winchester. same thing.

sold it, kept the '06.

it's a meat gun.

Alright i like learning. When did the BAR go from a single pin to a double pin extractor. Was it when they are assembled in Portagual?

I knew one gent ( I was 16 then) who had one in 30-06 that only worked right with the 180gr. This was on Texas Hill country deer and he didn't like it that much, most ran a long way after the shot. He tried a Model 100 Winchester in .243, but it was a jammomatic with everything. When I got out of the Army in '73, I bought a new BAR in 7mm Rem Mag. It was too heavy, and jammed regularly. Traded it off. Tnrough the years I watched the hewer ones that friends used (still Beligum made) work swell in .243 and .270, plus one guy had a 300WM. In 2001 I bought an older Beligum model in .270, had it cleaned thoroughly, reblued, etc and it was a gem. I had it until last year when Obammacare Tax Man almost ruined me, sold everything. I did buy an even newer one (Japanese I think) years ago for a friend, in .338WM, that had the side bolt release. ( I ddn't care for that lever at all!) I had the rifle Magnaported, a Decelerator pad added and it works just fine. He wanted a bonafide elk rifle ( he had no money then, I did...then) is very recoil sensitive. Its a kitten. So, as mentioned, in some parts of the country, people revere them...in others they are just one step above a good boat anchor!

In my opinion there is a great difference in the two. The older made in Belgium is a much better rifle. I’ve owned both with the Belgium model being better made and more accurate. Hasbeen

A gunsmith friend told me that the old ones would shoot their buttstocks loose. I shot my buddies 7mm Rem mag and not only was it deadly accurate, the trigger was better then any other BAR I have shot or owned. It was an old entirely made in Belgium model. I like the Wood better on the old models.

I bought a 1969 year model all Belgian BAR Grade II here in 2011 for 750 bucks shipped, beautiful rifle, I let a bud talk me out of it, have been thinking about buying another, fine, fine rifle, accurate too with 225 gr TTSX's at 2800 fps.

I have Browning BARs:
1969 338WM
1980 300WM
1990 338WM


Here is a pic of some BAR gas regulators.
They are really a pipe plug with a little hole drilled in the end.
But the diameter of the hole is important.

One of the regulators is the old original one.
One is a new one from Brownells or Midwest gunworks.
One is a home made one that I made out of round steel stock on my lathe.

From my notes:
Quote:
The regulator is just a 9/16-24 ultra fine thread bolt with a hole in
it. If FALs have adjustable by pass gas, BARs have fixed jets.

a) 7mm Mag is .066" hole
b) 300 Mag is .077" hole [p/n B3176146]
c) 338 Mag is .059" hole
d) My home made is .078" hole
e) recoil buffer [p/n B3176065]


What does it all mean?
You want to load hotter, use a bigger hole.
You want to load wimpier, use a smaller hole

You want a custom regulator?
Buy one with a smaller hole and drill it out to match your loads.
Don't fabricate one from scratch like I did the first time.

The BAR rifle has never been made in Japan, not that there is anything wrong with that. The early ones were made in Belgium, and the newer ones since at least the 80's are made in Belgium assembled in Portugal.

This really makes me want to shoot mine and see what they are like. I have 4, 7mm Rem mag, .30-06, .243 and .338. I tried to sight in the .243 one time and found that it needed horizontal windage adjustment to zero, which I did not have at the range. They are neat guns, but heavier than I would want to carry in the hills, which is also where they would really shine with the barrel length and quick follow up shots. I need to work less, shoot more and have fun!

I didn't know that Pard, thanks for clearing that up. At any rate, that .338WM of my buddies has only shot the Winchester factory 200 NBT load. since my buddy is recoil sensitive, I saw not need to try anything heavier, and that 200 NBT ( coated Winchester) has a good rep here in Utah.

Well, Thanks to this thread, I done it yesterday, found and purchased a beautiful 1969 year model BAR Grade II in 338 WM, just like my old one, I have a cherry set of gloss Conetrol bases and rings for a BAR, I now need to find an equally clean gloss 1.75-6, 2-7 or 2.5-8 Leupold.

Loaded up some nice medium powered handloads for testing yesterday evening featuring the 210gr Partitions over H-4350, cant wait to get this put together, then on too the bench and woods!

Congrats! I think you will find it is a great killer and doesn't 'tear up" as much game as many high velocity smaller rounds! It "really shines" on hogs! Want to test "penetration"? shoot a big hog lengthwise! have a ball pard!

Thanks Jim, have had a couple buds that don't like BAR's and ask me why, I can hear and feel the BAR's and A-5 shotguns working while firing them, I think it's cool as hell, plus, it's a testament to the genius of John Moses Browning and FN.

I'll shoot up a couple boxes of the 210 NPT's then build a load with the 250 NPT's for everything else later. the 210's at an accurate and easy 2800-2850 should do fine for now.

I’ve got a Belgium .270 that I inherited about 10 years ago. Was my grandfathers only cf rifle since the late 60s and he would shoot probably 30-50 pigs, coyotes and deer a year with it. I’ve shot it probably 500 rounds since I’ve gotten it. Never had a jam and it’s as accurate as any bolt rifle I’ve ever owned. Other than a pre Garcia sako I think anyone is going to have a hard time finding more vintage rifle for the money they are selling for

Agreed and Congrats Kellywk, as far as moving parts, an old skeet shooting bud of mine says you cant wear out and A-5 either.

If you haven't done so it is time to clean out the gas valve and port. 500 to 600 rounds is where the hand book says they should be cleaned. When I had one years ago I didn't bother reading the book and eventually it started stove piping! I went quite a bit beyond the recommended cleaning point but I wouldn't recommend trying to find out where that point is in your rifle. After mine was cleaned I never had another problem with it. Actually after the first cleaning I made a point of doing it annually. It only takes a few minutes and then you know it should be trouble free.

Jim

I never was a BAR fan, but here's one I traded for. The wood needed restoring, metal was as is. I refinished the stock, sent it to Errol Case in MO to restore the fancy checkering. That doubled the value.

I then traded it for a Dakota 76, .270.

I in turn traded that one for my Ed Brown Damara .300 WM which is a keeper.

DF

Nice piece DF, would have had to have been hell and high water for me to ditch a Dakota though.

I own two BAR'S and have handloaded for a couple others. I've yet to experience a bad one. They are a bit on the heavy side and the triggers are spongy as heck. But they are accurate and reliable.

I've always wanted a BAR, but just never took the plunge.

For those of you who've had them; how difficult are they to field-strip?

Benelli R1.

Look into it.








I have two of them, ~3000 rounds between the two of them, never a failure to function. Not once.

David

Check for salt wood years. I dont know if any got on BARs.

Killed my booner with Sandbillys BAR Short Track in 308. I would love one of those light, well balanced short actions rifles in 243.

Yeah it was a nice rifle. I like the Ed Brown Damara .300 WM better.

And, it was chambered in an unspeakable round with a .277 bore.

I do have my pride.

DF

Bwaahahaha, I sold mine to the debil, two 270's live here.

I have one closet .277 mystery bore. It is an old Springfield I put together as a mere lad. I was young back then.

DF

I'm sure you're forgiven, I do have six of one flavor or another 300 mags here, maybe that'll get me a bit of redemption too.

gunner, if you could spend some time with this 300 WM Ed Brown Damara, you'd forget about that 270 Dakota.

I traded even with Hendershot Sporting. Lance sent the Dakota back for stock refinish, it showed some wear.

This one is mint and Ed no longer makes them. LAW bought his tooling and the 704 action design (CRF with round bolt). Some of the LAW guns get good reports, IMO they aren't at the same level as these. They trying to build a $4K rifle at half the price point.

DF

Here's my high school project .270. It's sorta heavy but shoots very well.

Springfield, SS McGowan, Herter French Walnut, Timney, fitted, glassed, inlayed, checkered by me.

DF

That Brown is a nice stick DF, reminds me of my 7mm Mashburb Redneck built up for me, that Springfield is screaming wide whitewalls, fender skirts and a pack of lucky strikes.

Bet it was a fun project nonetheless, to my untrained eye, the checkering looks GREAT!

My new to me BAR 338 will be here on Monday, going to be sleeting with snow mix, maybe I can find enough light to get the chrono to fire a couple readings.

Maybe throw in some mud flaps...

The checkering was back when I could see...

And, it was a fun project.

That BAR does sound like a "gunner" piece, big ole bullets coming at ya fast...

DF

That's nice, bet the old rifle was a shooter, 10-roger on the muddy flaps too, we got room, I'll be looking for an easy accurate 2800-2850 with the 210 NPT's for now, will work up a serious all game load with the 250 NPT's this Spring.

Figured you for a bolt gun and/or classic type gun purist.

Not expecting to see you branching out with a semi-auto, although, IMO, the BAR is the best in class regarding build quality and accuracy.

DF

David's Benelli R1 may be the exception to the BAR being "best in class". I've never used one, although a good bud had one in 300 WM that he thought a lot of.

Those Benilli's are accurate, may outshoot the BAR. That may depend on the individual gun. In making the "best in class" statement, I was thinking Rem 7400 and those that followed, and the Win 100. I had a bud with the Win 100 and it would shoot 3" on a good day off the bench. I glassed the 6" or so of the forearm that touched the barrel, shrunk groups in half. It has a big hollow area in the stock for action bars to operate, only the last 6" or so of the stock actually touches the barrel.

I was never able to do much with the Rem 7400 series, other than improve the trigger. What you see is what you get. The BAR will generally out shoot the Rem and Win. And it seems to be a more solid, better built gun than either of those.

DF

Have you tried a Sauer 303?

It's years since I owned my BAR. I still have one target in my reloading room when I outdid myself with my .270 BAR and shot a 5/8" three shot group at 300 yards one evening. Certainly not the norm but mine was a good shooter.
Jim

Just read accounts, looked at pictures.

DF

I was working at a rifle range a while back and had a guy come in with a BAR with the BOSS gizmo on it. He was trying different factory loads to figure out which grouped best, and how to work the BOSS to tighten his groups. He'd found the best load of what he had with him, and then started playing with the BOSS. He got that thing down to consistent 3/4" groups off the sandbags by working with the BOSS system. The only thing I've never liked about those guns was the weight. The ones I saw out there shot better than the Remington Jammamatics, and ran smoother too.

So far the 303 is the most consistently accurate semiauto "conventional" hunting rifle (meaning excluding AR's) I've tried. They usually group an inch or less (often much less) with factory ammo at 100 yards, unlike any of the other models you listed. And typical of German rifles, the trigger pull is very good.

Don't you mean a 303?
I thought the 202 was a bolt action.

?????????

Yep, you're right. Meant 303. Or maybe my fingers hit 2 instead of 3....

Yeah, 303.

I knew what he was referring to when I answered the question.

DF

I've had a long appreciation for all things German, Belgian and Austrian, fine craftsmen, whether it be auto or weaponry, with the BAR's and A-5's, I can hear and feel the weapons working while firing, i think that's cool as hell.

I'll pick that rifle up this afternoon, mount the old set of sculptured Conetrol bases and gloss rings to see what kind of scope tube length I have to work with, this rifle appears to be untouched [no bubba] since it left the factory, i'll find a scope that will let me leave the rear fold over sight in place with the low scope height position the Conetrols will give.

Yo Dodge Viper sure ain't German...

DF

LOL, iirc, the Viper I bought for Wifey was owned by Diamler in '08 when built, but, that V-12 triple black convertible Benz sure is!

So, you gonna use Wifey as an excuse for driving a Dodge...

Just messin with ya...

DF

I know, and no, I bought the big Dodge for the farm, we better get back on topic before I get into trouble, the vipers a pinto, the mb's a vega, there, all better? ; ]

Back to the BAR, it's a hell of a testament and respect from me to John Moses Browning and FN's design talents, JMB passed a lot of good smarts on down to his son and grandson.

I would like to hear from those who have used the Sauer 303.

DF

Was trying to get a copy of your Rifle Mag. July 2011 article on the Sauer 303.

Found the issue on line, the download didn't include your piece.

Those rifles are pretty expensive. I don't see many sources and guess the black (synthetic) one would be the least expensive.

Fancy ones with high grade wood list in the $4K+ range.

DF

Well, well, I have the old '69 year model BAR Grade II 338WM perking right along nicely with 210gr Partitions at 2943 fps with RL-17, finally found a cherry gloss 2.5-8 Leupold to put in the sculptured Conetrol bases and rings, +2" at 100 zeros at 220 and only 6" down at 300, three shot groups averaging 1.22" for now, that's plenty good enough for me and 300 yard hunting with a semi-auto, and unfamiliar to me trigger feel.

a good friend would pay dearly for the one his dad loaned to a friend. Both men got older. Then, after my friends dad passed we are pretty sure a younger relative of the loan recipient sent the BAR down the road to a pawn shop.......
just the kind of, "kid looses dads gun story" you want if you own one in 30-06 and want to move it!!!!!
That plated receiver and redone chequering really pop on the trade goods DF.

D) 338WM BAR made in Belgium assembled in Portugal in 1990,
250 gr Nosler Gold Partition, moly 69 gr H4350, 3.34"
2645 fps
2599
2645

E) 338WM BAR " made in Belgium assembled in Portugal in 1990
250 gr Nosler Gold Partition, moly 69 gr H4350, 3.34"
2604 fps
2640
2629


F) 338WM BAR made in 1969 in Belgium,
250 gr Nosler Gold Partition, moly 69 gr H4350, 3.34"
2594 fps
2578
2588
2583
2578

I'm about to pull my boots on and go chrono some 250 and 275gr Swift A Frames with H-1000, H-4831SC and H-4350 with a drop tube in my BAR 338, rains on the way this afternoon, I love finding a bag of new brass I forgot I had, gotta do something with it!

Had a blast and found a baby 375 H&H mag load in the process, 275 gr Swift A Frames ran 2540 fps over 76 grs H-1000 through a drop tube, had no trouble at all seating the bullets in the crimp groove, took three to the bench for fun, they went a little under and inch and a half, what a hellbender load for all game to 300 yards.

Dang, no love for the BAR's, I've only had two, they've both been 1969 year model all Belgian 338 WM's, they've both shot great, John Browning's name needs no explanation, his son and grandson along with FN have built some really good firearms, guess I partly like them because dad handed me an old A-5 very early in my hunting career, I appreciate the design.

I am also interested.

As I said earlier, I have had no issues with my personal BAR rifles or the several others I have loaded for.

Yup, just surprised they're not more popular here, we all have extreme precision rifles, lever guns, even doubles and sharps rifles, i'll always make room for a good dependable, accurate semi-auto hunting rifle.

The R1 has a lot of potential for accuracy. The key was finding a scope and mount that could stand up to the recoil of that particular semi auto.( I’m sure others apply)The bolt cycling and smacking the heel of the upper receiver would throw a lesser scope off zero very easily. I suspect this is why the accuracy reputation is so hit and miss with this particular gun.

Consistently under an inch with hand loaded ammunition with a good mounting system and tough scope ( sightron ) Couldn’t comment on factory ammo.