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Reflecting on the past 10 years or so, I find I do a lot of timber hunting whether its elk in the west, blackbears/deer in the east. On the last 2 western black bear hunts, I was also in the timber most of the time, and even then only had 300 yards shots in the open. All that said, I’m evaluating a short action cartridge capable of throwing a bigger bullet than my current 308 (180 Sierra Game King at 2630). I’m also thinking a Newfoundland moose hunt in the near future.

I’ve done a lot of Google-Fu and found more than few older threads from guys buying 338 Federals a few years back when it was new. I found 2 articles by JB on the cartridges as well as a couple other authors of various articles – most seem really positive on both cartridges. Dennis was a big fan but has moved on to the happy hunting grounds.

I’m thinking a Kimber MT 308 is a trip to JES away from becoming one or the other. I love the 84M platform and really like the NightForce SHV Plex sitting on top of my 308. I find the extra 8 oz scope weight actually improves the recoil handling ability of the platform. Plus after getting banged around for 2 weeks in WY and CO in elk season, I shot it over the weekend – dead on. I’m estimating a 338/358 will weigh 6.5-6.6 lbs with SHV in Talley 30 mm rings. About right for full power loads in either cartridge in my view.

So – now that the 338 Fed has been out for a while, and guys have used the 358 Win for years, what is the on-game performance with the various 225 grain bullets pushed from the 338 Fed/358 Win? I’d likely start with Partitions in either, but think Sierra’s or Speer’s would work as well. Also what bullets you using and velocities with 225’s in a 22” barrel?

Thanks.


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No experience with the 338 Fed, but I have had a BLR in 358 Winchester now for 11-12 years and have always been impressed with it. I monkeyed around with some 200's and 250's early on, but just settled on a hunting load of W748, WW cases, and a 225 Nosler Partition or Sierra 225 at 2450/2500. They both shoot identically and have been shot to 400 yards. I have a plain old Burris 2x7 on my rifle and it's really no big trick to get them out to 400 yards. I can't see one being any better than the other, so it would just come down to what you like. I like the .358's so I shoot a bunch of them.. Been using the 180 TTSX in the 350 Rem Mag as well which might be another great one in the 358. I'd think a rifle set up like you stated would be a killer little rifle. I have no idea how much better it would be than your current 308 with 180's would be, but I know the 225 Partition and Sierra are pretty danged awesome on deer which is all I have taken. They put large holes through em, and I have never caught one of them in any deer, even with off, angling shots. It's a fun, easy shooting cartridge.


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I have no experience with the 358Win, but have used a 338 Federal for years. The load I settled on is a 185gn TTSX at about 2650fps. It has been an absolute hammer on everything so far. Have not taken anything bigger than a few large hogs, but all have fallen with no tracking needed. Good deer cartridge too. Longest shot on game for me has been about 225 yards. I took it to Texas on our Nilgai hunt with Roger and James, but unfortunately didn't connect. Looking forward to the next time.

The 358Win does interest me though, and may be my next loony project.


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The .338 Fed out of a Montana is a handful. A delight to carry, but it lets you know, especially with the 225's from the bench. Re-barreled mine because of it and bought a .338Fed from MRC to replace it. Much nicer to shoot for fun.The Kimber would shoot fine, but the barrel jump off the bench made you work at it and even with the Nightforce it is going to jump. Never had a .358. Shot two Deer with the Fed with no surprises. On one it when in the chest and came out the ham with a Barnes.

Last edited by battue; 11/13/18.

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Originally Posted by battue
The .338 Fed out of a Montana is a handful. A delight to carry, but it lets you know, especially with the 225's from the bench. Re-barreled mine because of it and bought a .338Fed from MRC to replace it. Much nicer to shoot for fun.The Kimber would shoot fine, but the barrel jump off the bench made you work at it and even with the Nightforce it is going to jump. Never had a .358. Shot two Deer with the Fed with no surprises. On one it when in the chest and came out the ham with a Barnes.


Wondering if stock design has a role with the Montana? Mine is built (Thanks Mickey Coleman) on a 700SA in a McMillan stock and is very soft shooting. Could be the heavier bullet, stouter load too, I guess.


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Originally Posted by battue
The .338 Fed out of a Montana is a handful. A delight to carry, but it lets you know, especially with the 225's from the bench. Re-barreled mine because of it and bought a .338Fed from MRC to replace it. Much nicer to shoot for fun.The Kimber would shoot fine, but the barrel jump off the bench made you work at it and even with the Nightforce it is going to jump. Never had a .358. Shot two Deer with the Fed with no surprises. On one it when in the chest and came out the ham with a Barnes.


Thats my concern with the Kimber 84M platform - recoil with heavier bullets. It calculates out a bit stiff.

What does your MRC weigh?


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beretz - thats my exact thoughts on the 358 - 225 Nosler/Sierra at 2450-2500. I think they'd be the ticket for timber elk/moose.


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I would think the biggest difference would be the 1.5 additional pounds of the MRC.

Addition: looks more like 2.5 poinds. Which do make a difference.

Last edited by battue; 11/13/18.

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Originally Posted by bwinters

Thats my concern with the Kimber 84M platform - recoil with heavier bullets. It calculates out a bit stiff.

What does your MRC weigh?




This is with a LW Leupold 3x and 2 inches taken off the barrel to have it balance better in the hand. I also went to 185's for Deer.

[Linked Image]


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I have/had both but decades apart.

Both are very effective on game but the bullet selection for the 338
is much better than the 358 selection of years ago.

I've been shooting 210 NPs in Federal factory ammo and it works very well.

My Kimber Montana weighs 5.3 pounds with 2.5x compact scope. It does
kick when shooting from the bench but I didn't buy it for bench rest shooting.
It's a delight to carry when hiking bear country and weighs only slightly more than
some of today's largest handguns.

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The MRC was also easier to shoot good groups off the bench. However, in the hand the Kimber Montana did fine.

The MRC is a solid rifle. I really like them.

[Linked Image]


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Last edited by battue; 11/13/18.

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Quote
I’m thinking a Kimber MT 308 is a trip to JES away from becoming one or the other.


Bill,

If you decide to go the .338 route, I have a factory take-off Montana barrel in .338 Fed that I'd sell you with dies. That way if you didn't like it, you could just go back to the .308.

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PM sent.


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Quote
the 358 - 225 Nosler/Sierra at 2450-2500. I think they'd be the ticket for timber elk/moose.


Other than more recoil what does that do that a 200 gr Partition or Accubond from a 308 won't do at the same speeds. The 200gr/308 combo will out penetrate 338 or 358 with 225 gr bullets, shoot flatter and kick less. It gives up nothing at woods ranges, yet works better for longer shots. The 308 doesn't top out with 180 gr bullets. There is a reason 338 Fed and 358 Win will never be mainstream cartridges. If someone just wants to be different then go for it, they do kill stuff. But not any deader than you could do with your 308. If the OP is wanting to shoot heavier bullets, then he'd save a lot of money and get better performance by shooting heavier bullets in his 308.

Going to a larger caliber isn't necessarily an advantage. In fact it is a disadvantage unless you go significantly heavier in bullet weight.


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I've been using the .358 for a lot of years but only on deer (with several coyotes of opportunity thrown in). I've only used 200 grain cup/core bullets for deer but would think the 225 partition would be the ticket for bigger things. The MRC/Win 70 short actions (and Forbes/NULA/Barrett) have a little longer short action mag box which may be beneficial.

The .308 kills just fine and leaves a good blood trail but the .358 leaves a GREAT blood trail. To me it's the perfect round for still hunting thick mountain sides....even though the .308 has worked just as well....I just like the .358.

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I've had good luck with .358 225gr NAB's at 2,425fps, as well as .338 185gr TTSX's at 2,700fps. Neither are being shot from a short action, but the effects should be much the same. They are reliable on hogs and deer at medium ranges, with plentiful blood trails. The pig in my avatar fell to the 225 NAB load from my Whelen single shot.


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The 308 Win, 338 Federal and 358 Win are all superb SA big game chambers. Other than wanting one or the other for pure preference there isn't a great deal of difference between them in most respects. For some reason the 338 and 358 get some good press with their use of 210 gr Partition and 225 gr Partition loads. What gets lost is the 308 Win and its use of the 200 gr Partition. A close examination of the 308 Win loaded with a 200 gr Partition reveals pretty similar characteristics to the other two loads. Using 200 yd zero and ballistics at 300 yds shows downrange energy/drop/10 mph wind drift:

-308 Win 200 gr Partition-BC .481-SD .301 @2,450 fps MV: 1,775 ft-lbs/-10.2"/7"

-338 Fed 210 gr Partition-BC .400-SD .263 @2,600 fps MV: 1,947 ft-lbs/-9.3"/7.9"

-358 Win 225 gr Partition-BC .430-SD .251 @2,450 fps MV: 1,895 ft-lbs/-10.4"/7.9"

For any game animal hit with one of these loads I doubt you would see any real world difference. Given the 358 opens up a sizable hole and has the heavier bullet you could claim it the better for close quarter work. The 338 Federal w/210 Partition load shows slightly more power at extended range, but nothing significant over the other two. Point is the 308 Win w/200 Partition load holds its own very well against the other two and is a more versatile cartridge with 110 gr - 200 gr loads. Not knocking the other two at all and am a big fan, just showing that the 308 Win is still possibly the most versatile SA chamber. BTW for any who still put stock in a projectiles penetration per SD, the 308 Win is a real driver in that category. Maybe you should just load some 200 gr Partitions in your 308 Win and see how they do.

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Rossimp has a point there, and it's not out of question to bump 2,600fps from a 22" 308 with the right powders and a 200gr bullet. I've done it with RL17 and the 200gr Sierra GKBT. It was a slobberknocker on deer.


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In my opinion the 358 is the way to go. I have used it on elk and with 250 gr. Hornady bullets it's close to the perfect timber cartridge. I've used the 225 sierras also on elk , kills 'em dead. The real advantage of the 358 vrs. the 338 fed is that with the heavy bullets( 250gr) the hornady bullet is much shorter and allows for more powder in the case. A 338 250gr is a long bullet and restricts power capacity. I shoot 2550 with the hornady bullet out of my steel receiver BLR. The 338 fed may shoot somewhat flatter but the 225 gr sierra has the BC and will almost match the longer bullets
They will both get the job done well---personal choice
You'll never even remember the recoil in the field, they are not bench cartridges and were never intended to be.
Good Luck and Good Hunting
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Never thought of the 358 or 338 as really "better" but sometimes different is enough for us to have a little fun.. The old 308 is a good one, but the 338 or 358 aren't bad either, and no elk or what have you will be less dead from a 200, 210 or 225 Partition. All three of them are some killin SOB's!


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