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Interesting article. Interesting that a die-hard bow-hunter complains about muzzleloading hunters disturbing elk during the rut. I'd bet the number of bowhunter days in the field during the rut dwarfs the number of muzzleloader days. Hell, either-sex archery tags are unlimited, over-the-counter.



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Yep, if they are worried about hunting in the rut,they need to hunt about a week later.I have run into more and more of those types Smoke.

I would not put a lot of faith in the CPW finding the cause.It took them 10+years and multiple studies to come up with the same conclusion as us hunters concerning deer numbers. They were simply killing too many deer in hunting season.

Down in the Gunnison country CPW decided they had too many elk,so thru Either Sex ,OTC w/cap tags,they cut the herd in half.Now they figure they killed too many so all cow tags are now "B" tags.Funny thing though if the cow jumps a fence onto private land, it becomes an "A" tag,
Elk herd management at it's finest!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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It's all about the $$$$.



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I was about to post that article.

I've been having this "discussion" with CPW people I know and among us hunters in my neck of the woods for 20 years.

Couple things; Technology has made it easier for people to get into elk country, and to stay longer. Beginning with the advent of common 4wd's in the early 70's, to GoreTex, ATV's, to GPS, spots that for decades I rarely, and in a couple places never, saw elk hunters have now been "discovered".

As a high school kid in the early 70's I remember the blackpowder groups showing up at CPW meetings--dressed in buckskins--advocating more blackpowder permits. Their argument was this more about a "lifestyle" than it was with the very limited success with flintlocks and cap & ball muzzleloaders. Then came inline action muzzleloaders, and the technology took off, and the buckskin clad "lifstyle" hunters disappeared, and it was a whole new mindset. Even more so with advent of compound bows that brought lots of rifle hunters into archery, and doubled and tripled the effective range of bows (and yes I have been archery hunting since 1971 and have on occasion blackpowder hunted). If I were God, I would prohibit scopes on centerfire rifles for the 1st and 2nd rifle seasons. Regardless, the number of hunters out there in September has increased exponentially. And so has the number of "lifestyle immigrants" who are mtn biking to mushroom picking (for gawds sake). I have been saying we are at a tipping point with the sheer numbers of people in the Rockies and still enjoy our wildlands.

The article suggests September activities are to blame. The pregnancy rates are good, but are the cows being bred in the second or third estrus cycle? That's what the CPW is trying to find out. Studies in other states have demonstrated calves born after July 1 sustain about a 90% mortality rate. They are easier pickings for predators, and more importantly they do not have the weight to survive winter.

Although it would be tough on our ungulates, every day I continue to send lamentations heavenward, praying for a repeat of the 1970's series of winters. It would change the minds of a LOT of these lifestyle yuppies--including yuppie hunters--about the "great weather and mild winters" we have in the Southern Rockies........

I could go on, but I've got some handloading to do for my son's and my pronghorn hunt in a couple weeks........


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Originally Posted by saddlesore


I would not put a lot of faith in the CPW finding the cause.It took them 10+years and multiple studies to come up with the same conclusion as us hunters concerning deer numbers. They were simply killing too many deer in hunting season.


Boy ain't that the truth. I was involved in that fiasco. Needless to say, what the biologists in the field say, does NOT translate into what is decided in Denver and within the Wildlife Commission.

I have been also saying that what we saw happen with mule deer could well happen with elk. In the 1960's the state had 1.1 million deer. Today we have 450,000 deer. That 1.1 million represented an over population and the CPW went to great lengths starting in the late 60's to reduce deer numbers. I was hunting in the early 70's and here is an example for the Uncompahgre Valley and Gunnison Basin deer seasons. I know many won't believe this but I have my and my dad's deer licenses from the early 70 's to prove it:

--Draw an early Sept rifle hunt if one was lucky enough.

--Buy a OTC archery license.

--Buy a regular rifle buck tag for almost any unit in the Uncompahgre Valley or the Gunnison Basin, and the CPW would offer to sell a doe tag,and if you did buy one, throw in another buck tag--for free.

--Draw a December buck tag if you were lucky enough (it wasn't actually that hard).

That's six deer licenses if you you worked your cards right.

35 years later nobody--not just Colorado--can figure out what has happened with mule deer. Other states have had extensive studies and none of them have identified a smoking gun(s).

I think it is still habitat related. Excessive numbers of deer and excessive numbers of elk have hurt winter and transition habitat. I also think elk have out-competed deer for browse and graze. And there is livestock grazing. Lots of elk means lots of competition with cattle (and some sheep).

And then there are predators whose numbers have probably increased over the past 30 years.


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If it's habitat related,how come I have so many deer around my place in a rural residential area. Habitat sure isn't decreasing around here. In Colorado Springs, over populated deer are becoming a big nuisance. CPW is trying to figure up how to cull them.

If CPW would go back to sound wildlife management instead of trying to raise all the money they can suck out of hunters, you would see a big turn around in elk and deer populations.

Take a drive up the Ohio Creek road north of Gunnison starting about 1st rifle season and you will see a third the population of the eastern side of West Elk Wilderness, about 800 head, on the Castleton and Rock House ranches and this is happening all over Colorado.They need to find some way of getting those elk back on public lands during hunting season.

The predator is CPW. IMHO, CPW is issuing too many tags in Sept and the bulls are not breeding because of too much hunting pressure. Stop all hunting during peak rut so that more cows are bred then instead of later. . Stop all OTC archery tags. Limit archery tags to the same quota as ML tags.

Last edited by saddlesore; 11/25/18.

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It is hard for me to believe that all the September hunting is not affecting the rut. I live in Unit 18, known for high elk numbers, low hunter success, and lots and lots of hunters coming from the Front Range. I’ve only lived here for 11 years, but that is long enough to see dramatic changes, for example lots more archery hunters, all bugling their hearts out. When I moved here we frequently heard elk bugling around home. No more. The elk are still here but mostly silent. Every little drainage will have 5 or 10 cars at the pull out. We frequently see bulls maintaining harems late into November. My part of the unit has few hiking trails, and these are lightly used except during hunting seasons. There are many many bowhunters that backpack in and camp. Makes me wonder if we might have the same thing as they are seeing around Durango in a few more years.

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Elk herds all over Colorado are dropping each year. The unit I grew up hunting in (and my family hunted for over a century) was determined to be over populated and from 2002-2007 6500 elk were killed thru culling and unlimited licenses. Now over ten years later the elk herd still hasn’t recovered. The unit we switched to six years ago is starting to get less and less elk. For example the unit probably doesn’t have more than 1000 elk but in 2016, 8500 hunters hunted the area from archery to fourth rifles. Makes me wonder what the CPW is thinking, oh wait there thinking about money.

Then the local ranchers start complaining about to many elk in their fields which is caused from so many hunters pushing the herds. There’s no easy answer. Less tags would be a great start. I’d be fine with only drawing a tag every other year if it resulted in a better hunt. I’ll stop there because I could keep going for hours.

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Hunters Round Table meeting in Colorado Springs this Wednesday(28th) . 6 Pm, CPW office 0on Sinton Rd


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Originally Posted by saddlesore
If it's habitat related,how come I have so many deer around my place in a rural residential area. Habitat sure isn't decreasing around here. In Colorado Springs, over populated deer are becoming a big nuisance. CPW is trying to figure up how to cull them.
.


SS,
You answered your own questions. All those well taken care of, well watered lawns and plants, and ag land make great deer and elk food! These days, it's some of the best habitat in the state.....

Declines of the total population in the SW is not the same as access to deer and elk. The change of ownership from working ranches to these "gentleman's ranches" have changed the whole access equation. What used to be a phone call to a rancher neighbor or friend (come kill ALL the SOB's, they;re eating all my grass!!!!) is now no longer available to the average guy.
Now that deer and elk have become a "economic value" and both the working ranches and gentleman's ranches are either leased up, or in some cases only hunted (underhunted) by the wealthy "gentleman's" friends from Silicon Valley or Wall St, is another matter and one maybe even more vexing. In some ways that economic value is working against the average hunter.


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Could someone please copy and paste the text of the article? I am not going to send any money to the current management of the Denver Post for anything. Thanks in advance!


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Alpine hit a nail on the head. With the current popularity of elk hunting folks with big money will pay out for a guaranteed kill. A ranch which used to cater to Ranching for Wildlife recently started an outfitting business. They charge big money for areas that could of been hunted five years ago for minimal PP. Thats their right in the end though.

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Maybe CPW should get some of that elusive MJ money so they don’t need the out of state hunting license money.

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A little info.

The article mentioned by the early 1900's there were a guesstimated 500-1000 elk left in the state. That number has been used for 40 years, who knows how accurate it is.

By 1960 there were 50,000 elk in the state.

By 1980 there were 120,000 elk in the state.

By 1986 there were 165,000 elk in the state. AT that point, according to press releases the CPW determined that was the max carrying capacity in the state for elk. But the elk herd kept growing, and so did the stated "carrying capacity" for elk in Colorado (funny how that works.....)

By the late 90's the estimate was 300,000 elk and the CPW was desperately trying to reduce what was/is a gross over-population of elk.

First, there is almost two generations of elk hunters out there who have never known anything BUT an overpopulation of elk in Colorado. They think that the current 275,000 elk is normal. It s not normal, and is probably still an overpopulation. The article subtly suggests that hunting --and the hunting economy--is driving management of popular big game species. It is indeed. It has for the past 50 years.
And the suggestion is that quite possibly the CPW is attempting to sustain the unsustainable. That might be true. It might not be true.
But I have never got a straight answer when I ask "How did the elk population carrying capacity go from 165,000 in 1986 to 275,00 currently? Now, "carrying capacity" can be a rather nebulous number. No government agency has the resources to count every blade of grass, or every leader on every browse plant, or every forb, in the state. But going from 165,00 to 275,000 carrying capacity is quite a leap.


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Originally Posted by mudhen
Could someone please copy and paste the text of the article? I am not going to send any money to the current management of the Denver Post for anything. Thanks in advance!


Hang on for moment. I've been resisting paying the bastids myself, but I might be able to circumvent the SOB's at least once.


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DURANGO — The future of elk in Southwest Colorado is in jeopardy.

Over the past few years, herds in the region have been slowly dying off, and wildlife officials are concerned about the iconic ungulate’s ability to survive in healthy numbers in the long term.

The issue involves a mystery: About half of the elk calves born in Southwest Colorado die within six months. Of the survivors, another 15 percent perish before they turn a year old.

And researchers don’t know why, The Durango Herald reports.

The problem encompasses wildlife mismanagement: After record high elk populations in the 1990s, the Division of Wildlife (now Colorado Parks and Wildlife) ordered a mass hunt to cut back the animal’s numbers.

These same elk herds are now struggling to recover.

And, there are pressures from an avid user group: hunters, who in vast numbers travel to Colorado’s rich public lands. On top of killing elk, they can disrupt breeding habits and future offspring.

The challenge of understanding the forces behind this population decline comes at a time when Colorado will restructure the way it carries out big-game hunting seasons, which, among conservationists and hunters alike, presents an opportunity to help elk recover.

“I’ve been hunting in this area since 1993,” said Thomas Downing, an archery hunter and manager of Gardenswartz. “What I’ve witnessed, firsthand, is our elk herd is not in healthy shape.”

By the early 1900s, Western settlers had wiped out nearly all of the elk in North America, bringing an estimated population of 10 million down to just 40,000 animals throughout the United States and parts of Canada.

The U.S. Forest Service in 1910 estimated just 500 to 1,000 elk roamed the entire state of Colorado.

To revive the population, the state banned elk hunting until the early 1930s, and elk from Jackson Hole, Wyoming, were transplanted into 14 areas around the state, including the Hermosa Creek valley, north of Durango.

Those restoration efforts were highly successful. Colorado now boasts the largest elk population – about 280,000 animals – in North America.

In Southwest Colorado, elk herds enjoyed a prolonged period of prosperity in the 1990s, a time many hunters remember fondly.

“It was wonderful,” said David Petersen, a lifelong hunter, acclaimed naturalist and writer on hunting ethics. “And it just got better and better. Lots of elk. Lots of bulls. Elk bugling everywhere, all the time.”

But the high was short-lived.

Elk are hungry grazers, eating between 15 to 21 pounds of food a day.

In the summer, the ungulates prefer to stay in the high county, feeding on grasses, forbs and shrubs.

But in the winter, small bands tend to coalesce into large herds to spend the cold months feeding at lower elevations, in areas now occupied by farms and ranches.

Consequently, it’s not uncommon that elk cause a fair amount of damage to fields and crops and compete with livestock.

Toward the late 1990s, with elk abundant on the landscape, ranchers and farmers pressured the Division of Wildlife to reduce their numbers. And the agency responded, aggressively, by allowing more hunters to hunt.

Specifically, the Division of Wildlife issued a virtual free pass for killing cows. But killing too many females also began to kill the animal’s potential to reproduce.

At the height of the uncontrolled culling, a total of 3,500 hunting tags were issued in 1996 for the cow harvest in two herds around Durango.

This period, by contrast, is a time remembered not so fondly.

“During some private-land cow hunts, I saw elk falling dead by the dozens a day,” Petersen said. “It was an ugly slaughter. They hit the elk cows especially hard for several years.”

In the San Juan herd, which ranges from the Animas River east to Wolf Creek Pass, about 23,000 elk were cut down to about 17,300. In the Hermosa herd, a population of about 6,500 was reduced to 4,100.

Scott Wait, a senior terrestrial biologist for Colorado Parks and Wildlife, said that while these numbers don’t drastically stand out, they are significant in the complex art of big game management. And, in retrospect, many people felt the reduction effort was too aggressive.

“Maybe we were too successful, or maybe the public tolerance has changed,” Wait said. “Regardless, we did decrease elk to the point of dissatisfaction.”

The population reduction alleviated conflicts with ranchers and farmers. The problem is, the effort went too far. Now, elk herds are below their desired population levels and a new host of issues threaten their recovery.

“In the last six to eight years, we’ve tried to go back into the population growth phase,” Wait said. “But we are struggling getting the population of elk to grow again.”

Every winter, Colorado Parks and Wildlife monitors elk populations from the air by helicopter.

To determine how herds are doing, the most helpful numbers for wildlife officials are the ratios of cows to calves. If the ratio is high, populations are stable, and likely to grow. If the ratio is low, it’s a sign herds are starting to struggle.

About 15 years ago, there were anywhere from 50 to 60 calves for every 100 cows, considered a strong balance. In recent years, however, that number has fallen to about 20 calves per every 100 cows.

No one’s quite sure why these numbers have fallen, Wait said, though it does not appear to be an issue with pregnancy. About 90 percent of pregnant cows give birth to healthy calves.

To further muddle the situation, the calves are not surviving the first year of life. Again, no one’s quite sure why. Disease and attacks by predators have been ruled out as potential culprits, Wait said.

While elk populations appear stable in the northern parts of the state, these issues have surfaced in some elk herds to the south.

A research project in its second year, based in the Montrose and Trinidad areas which are seeing similar issues, seeks to gain information by putting radio collars on elk calves and following them through early life.

“We are seeing significant mortality in those first six months,” Wait said. “This new technology allows us to study those months, which are the mystery, and determine a cause of death.”

For local hunters, the answer to the elk’s decline isn’t going to be found in studies or through computer analytics. One needs only to look to the backcountry for answers.

Every fall, hunters from all over the country come to Southwest Colorado to scour the San Juan Mountains for big game. But this annual ritual for hunters happens to coincide with one of the most important times of the year for elk: the rut.

The rut is when elk congregate in large numbers, and in grand fashion, male elk, called bulls, spar for the right to breed with the cows. This is when bugling, the loud call of the bull elk to attract cows, can be heard throughout the forest.

Petersen, an elk expert who has been hunting in the mountains outside Durango since 1981, said this display and its timing are delicate.

After the rut starts in mid-August, elk typically breed the last week of September or first week of October. This allows calves to be born in late May and early June, giving the newborns enough time to bulk up before having to survive the next winter.

If this process is disrupted in anyway, it could mean late birth for calves and a lower chance of surviving the winter, Petersen said.

“That’s why it’s so important that the rut happens on time,” he said.

But Petersen believes the amount of hunters in the forest in September is pressuring the elk and disrupting the rut. As a result, he’s seen breeding happen as late as November, creating hardships and risk for late-born calves the next spring.

According to Colorado Parks and Wildlife stats, nearly 13,000 hunters trekked into the San Juan Mountains to hunt the Hermosa and San Juan units last year.

“There’s an extreme, excessive hunting pressure in September,” Petersen said. “There are just too many hunters at this most delicate time of year for elk.”

Dan Parkinson, a local hunter and advocate with Backcountry Hunters and Anglers, said with fewer elk and more hunters, the hunting experience has greatly diminished in the San Juan Mountains.

In the old days, he said, a hunter could work hard enough and get far enough back into steep and deep country to find undisturbed elk.

“But now you get back in there, find out that there are other hunters in the area with the advent of mapping capability,” Parkinson said. “There are no secret spots out there anymore.”

A combination of forces – hunting pressures, drought, habitat loss – could be stressing the elk. However, Petersen and others believe the hunt is at least one factor wildlife managers have tangible control over.

The big question for hunters will be whether they’re willing to sacrifice some opportunities for the betterment of the herd.

Every five years, Colorado Parks and Wildlife restructures the way it manages hunting seasons in the state, such as how many hunting tags it will issue for a specific region and when the various forms of hunting (archery, rifle) begin and end.

Local hunters said this should be a time of intense self-reflection for the hunting community, and a time hunters should consider bold changes to the way the hunt is currently structured.

Downing, who manages a store that sells hunting equipment, suggested limiting the number of hunting tags issued during rifle season. And, he suggested a cap on tags for archery season, which currently is unlimited.

He said the restructuring needs to take into account all the other hunting seasons like deer, turkey, grouse, black bear, etc., which bring even more hunters into the backcountry at the same time as elk hunters.

“We need just something so we don’t have that many people in the field at one time,” he said.

Petersen agreed. He said Colorado Parks and Wildlife needs to radically reduce the number of cow tags for several years, perhaps suspending the hunt on females until the population recovers. And, he added that muzzle-loading rifle season should not happen in the middle of the rut.

“Biologically, morally this is wrong,” he said.

Colorado Parks and Wildlife did cut cow tags for rifle season by 75 percent, Wait said, but it hasn’t shown any positive effect in rebounding populations.

“If we eliminated rifle cow-elk harvest, it would probably start to increase the population a little bit faster,” Wait said. “But I question the fairness of that.”

Instead, can hunters and the public come together and agree to strike a balance between allowing the tradition of hunting while preserving the hunted? Downing thinks so.

“I think hunters will ultimately come together for the good of the herd,” he said. “At heart, we’re a bunch of conservationists, and hunters here locally know this.”

Local hunters fear that politics have infiltrated what should be an agency that promotes and preserves wildlife.

Colorado Parks and Wildlife’s regulations and policies are set by the Colorado Parks and Wildlife Commission, an 11-person committee appointed by the governor that draws people from varying interests.

But many, like Petersen and Parkinson, say the commission is too heavy with people representing agriculture and industry interests, which more often than not, butt heads with wildlife interests.

And also more often than not, wildlife comes out on the losing end.

“CPW has always been cowed and bullied by ranchers and farmers who detest wildlife,” Petersen said. “For any real progress, we need to pull the wildlife commission out of the political arena. And that may need to be done through legislation.”

Of the 11-person commission, three people represent agriculture and two people represent industry interests. Two people sit on the board for the interests of the outfitting industry and one represents sportsmen.

Don Brown, Colorado’s commissioner of agriculture, also sits on the board, though he is not voting member.

There are no wildlife biologists, ecologists or experts on the board tasked with managing wildlife in the state.

Michelle Zimmerman, who represents recreational interests on the commission, agreed that sportsmen and agriculture interests have a dominant voice because, historically, those groups have always been the most involved.

Zimmerman said that as Colorado’s demographics and priorities change, so should the wildlife commission.

“I think the commission should evolve to best reflect the demographics of the state while remaining committed to the sportsmen and women and ag interests that have supported the mission of the agency for decades,” she said.

The way Colorado Parks and Wildlife is funded has also been called into question. One of the agency’s main source of funding is through the hunting tags it sells. Parkinson said that reliance makes the agency less willing to reduce those numbers.

“There needs to be discussion how to find a sustainable way to fund wildlife conservation in the state of Colorado,” he said.

Colorado Parks and Wildlife’s total revenue in fiscal year 2016-2017 was $241.9 million. Of that amount, $6.5 million came from 158,000 in-state residents buying hunting tags. A total of 70,400 out-of-state tags generated $40.3 million.

Colorado Parks and Wildlife will start its rescheduling of hunting seasons this winter, which will involve public comment. The new schedule would take effect in 2020.

It’s a glimmer of hope at the right time, though not a magic bullet. While restructuring the hunting season may help relieve stress on elk, the cause could very well be issues with climate change, such as drought, unforeseen disease or habitat loss.

Or a combination of all these factors, Wait said.

Gardenswartz’s Downing said another consequence of the declining herds is that business at the downtown Durango shop has been down.

“We’re starting to see a decline in hunters coming to our town because the word has spread our elk herd is struggling down here,” he said.

Downing, now 49, has hunted in Southwest Colorado since he was 7 years old. In 35 years of hunting, he has never killed a female elk.

“I don’t feel right about it,” he said. “If she doesn’t get killed, and lives to 20 years, she’s giving birth to 20 calves.”

He’s also ready to make the biggest self-sacrifice: giving up those serene autumn days in pursuit of prey.

“I can’t imagine a year in my life not elk hunting,” he said. “But with the current condition of our elk herd, I would not be upset if I wasn’t able to hunt for a year or two, so long as the long-term results of that sacrifice bring the elk herd back.”

___

Information from: Durango Herald, http://www.durangoherald.com


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Originally Posted by Cutlass1971
Maybe CPW should get some of that elusive MJ money so they don’t need the out of state hunting license money.


The absolute best argument hunters will ever have--and have had since day one of wildlife management in the USA--is that fact that we pay for motr wildlife management and the bulk of habitat improvement.

The author--like most Americans--doesn't know the history of wildlife management and underestimates the amount of money and energy coming from a dedicated constituency.


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“ Disease and attacks by predators have been ruled out as potential culprits, Wait said”

Be interested in how they ruled that out. What does that leave, starvation?

It is getting harder and harder for me to justify a $660 tag for a five day hunt. I’m definitely seeing fewer elk the last few years, but that could be any number of things.

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Thanks for the posts, Casey.


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