Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Custom Rifles & Wildcats A new 400 Whelen is Born

Here is the next installment. Thanks to the people who helped with the pictures.


A new 400 Whelen is Born_action

It all started with a cruise on Gunbroker. There was this 98 Mauser advertised as a 9.3x57 for sale, somewhere in Alaska. It suffered abuse and was pitted inside and out. It was also absolutely gorgeous. It had this beautiful full length rib with an integral front sight. Somebody referred to it as a “Shiller rib.” The rifle just called to me. I placed a bid hoping my refurbishment skills were adequate to the task. Was I clairvoyant.

When it arrived, the stock was broken at the wrist, badly. (That turned out to be a good thing.) I draw filed/polished the barreled action, fire lapped the barrel, and made a new stock for it out of a piece of Claro. By luck of the draw, the barrel slugged .358 exactly, so the 9.3 was actually a 9x57 which shot .358 bullets perfectly. At 6#, it also kicked like Eeyore’s grandfathers-father. But my heavens it fit me and it was beautiful. Hooked. Picture after rust blue, new stock, B4 checkering
at link.

https://imgur.com/GeHBbTI

So what has this to do with the 400?

The above convinced me the .400 needed to be built on a 98 Mauser action and also needed a very cool rib. The M98 is arguably the finest hunting rifle action ever made. I wanted a modern one, with updated metallurgy, not a worn out, converted, military action. Economics is a factor in my world. Converting a mil-spec M98 for custom might cost over $2000, all in, and it would still be what it is. A modern M98 might retail for more, but I should get more. Right? Research directed me to three action makers: Prechtl, Granite Mountain, and Satterlee.

After researching all three manufacturers, I chose the Satterlee action. It is American made. It is machined out of blocks of 4140 steel. The thing that tipped the scale for me, though, was on the Satterlee website. The actions are built in standard sizes, but each is finished cartridge-specific. The phrase on the website said each action will “feed right side up, upside down, [in the dirt], no matter what, each and every time.” That did it! I have had rifles with feeding problems. Not fun; sometimes worse. Heck, if I was going to spend the money, eliminating the feeding-fiddle seemed a good investment, especially considering what a big bore is used for.

Talking to Stuart Satterlee really iced the decision. I won’t repeat his bio here. You can read it and about his actions on his website. Suffice to say the Satterlee actions are M98 square bridged M98 actions which are machined for a variety of scope mounts and set up to feed any cartridge which makes sense in this action. Finally, they are delivered feeding perfectly into a plug-barrel. “Feeding” is an extra cost elsewhere.

When I described the cocking piece iron sight and the barrel design, he was very much on board. Lo and behold, Stuart just happened to have one of those sights and asked, “Did I want it?” Hello! When, I asked him about the cartridge feeding comment, Stuart said he makes them feed to “suit himself.” It might take him a week of try it, stone it, try it again, polish it some more, …until it feeds every round out of the magazine. The action feeds smoothly, too.

We discussed the cartridge. He had never build a 400 Whelen but was intrigued about getting 404 Jeffrey ballistics out of a .30/06 case. (See ammo thread) Even better, the Satterlee standard action holds 5+1 .400 Whelen rounds, without any magazine extension. The Jeffrey can not. The standard trigger is the pre-64 M70 pattern. Mine breaks at 2#, without and creep or over travel. Perfect.

As for delivery time, I had a good experience. Satterlee is constantly whittling receivers in all sizes. This is the most time consuming part of the process. He told me he usually has completed receivers & bolts ready to be paired to bottom metal made for your cartridge. In the end it comes down to planning. My entire action, except for feeding, was ready before the barrel was delivered. In the end, it also made sense to have Satterlee chamber the barrel blank and test fire it before the barrels was sent to be profiled.

At the time I placed the order, a completed action, polished & feeding cartridges cost $3400. While this price might seem high, it is less than that new transmission. I can assure you this price is less than competition for equivalent work. This action is tight, right, and does exactly what Satterlee told me, every time, perfectly. The decision to purchase this action was the best value/least cost approach for me.

https://satterleearmsrifles.com/

Next installment before I am forced to go collect venison.

A new 400 Whelen is Born_Barrel

In the action-post I described how an old 9x57 Mauser led to this rifle build. Here I will describe how the barrel design evolved.

Since I am an innocent in all of this, we must point our finger to Seyfreid, Bowen, and the Double Gun Journal, as key influencers. These sources are guilty of trotting out some of the most gorgeous firearms features known to man, to the unsuspecting public. I plead guilty for enjoying their work and buying into classic firearms design.

Reading this stuff is how I became introduced to the ovate barrel profile. I believe ovate may have originated on single shot British sporting rifles. Wherever it was born, it is classy, and I thought such a barrel would look good on this rifle.

I drew the initial design on graph paper. It was a modified ovate profile. Mine included concave sides, full length barrel rib, and an integral front sight and swivel.

Barrel making is not my expertise, but I do know a quality barrel is central to good accuracy. I called Kreiger to discuss the project. In the end, I purchased a .403/.411 oversized blank measuring 1.5”x27.” There was a 6 month waiting period, but it took 14 month because of a clerical glitch on my part. In the end, it did not matter. The barrel arrived in the nick of time. The blank was about $600 including shipping.

The challenge was, who could I get to build the profile I had designed? https://imgur.com/jnfxY3l Satterlee put me onto 3 different people. In the end, Morris Melani of Alaska Arms accepted the job. He had been making Ovates for another customer and was familiar with the challenges.

https://alaskaarmsllc.com/

Meanwhile the barrel went to Satterlee. He had the action done and needed the barrel to complete the feeding. Also, by divine coincidence, Morris Melani just happened to know the guy who bought Michael Petrov’s 400 Whelen, had Petrov’s chamber reamer, and he graciously loaned it to me so Satterlee could chamber my rifle with it. Thanks Dennis!

Satterlee completed the chambering, finished the feeding, test fired the rifle, sent it to Morris and the fire formed cased to me. Stuart said the round was easy to get to feed because it is just a “bigger .30/06.”

Morris profiled the 1.5 blank on his CNC equipment. Twice he called me to ask if I really wanted an integral swivel because it was a pain in his programming. The integral swivels stayed. Fortunately he recommended other changes. The concave profile was switched to the standard ovate (egg with flat top). The most important and subtle change was Morris added about 1/16 of swamping in the barrel. This added a touch of class which is more felt than seen. It also made the barrel lighter and improved the balance.

The profiled barrel is no lightweight. It is looks like a #6 contour, but the ovate makes it balance differently. (Maybe the Brits knew a lot what they were doing.) From shooting it, I have learned the ovate behaves as though it were a heavy, full-bull barrel. It must be very rigid. It shoots different weight to the same point of impact at 50 yards and into little tiny clover leafs. Given this is a 4000 ft lbs, rifle that says a lot about the barrel quality and execution.
Alaska Arms also makes neat detachable scope rings which fit into the cuts in the Satterlee action. I ordered sets of 1” and 30mm so I am ready for any scope I might mount. I have taken the rings on/off numerous times to test loads with the scope and cocking piece sight. The rings return to zero perfectly every time. No BS.

https://imgur.com/Kgbuiqi
https://imgur.com/GLznxP1

The rings were $135 per set. The barrel profile was $3500. The tightwad in me said, “ouch,” but the tightwad was wrong. The machining challenges to nibble an ovate, rib, ramp, and yes, swivel out of a 1.5” blank is no small undertaking. Morris did it perfectly the first time. He also added his expertise, delivered the finished barrel, polished it 400-grit, and delivered in time. Stepping back, this barrel sets off the rifle, balances perfectly, and shoots into one hole at 50 yards. I definitely got lots of value.

Thanks Stu and Morris.

I have two that are being ceracoated. After reading on Mart's post I decided I NEEDED one and my hunting partner agreed, he NEEDED one as well. Started the same time as Gunner started his and reached out to him for advice. Our pair are built on Dumolin mauser actions. Douglas XX barrels at 22", NECG master piece rear and banded front sight, with matching barrel band sling stud. Kinda went non traditional on the stock. Went with McMillian Mauser stocks in 50/50 orange and black, no front stud. Barreled actions are being Cereakoted graphite black, with sniper grey bolts.

All that said, before sending them out for Cerakoting, I put several rounds through each. With a plain 400 grain Hornady, stoked with a bunch of Rel15, it will splinter a 6" pine tree at 25yrds.

I can't wait to get them back and do load development

Good luck WheelerDan! It's a awesome cartraige.


Keenan

Gone hunting. Will continue next week.

Cant wait to read the report on completion of you guys' rifles muzzleblast, mines a stone cold killer with the 400gr Woodleighs, already took it to Africa and slayed kudu, gemsbok, impala, duiker, steenbok, as well as a few whitetail deer and one pig here at home.

A friend of mine built a 400 Whelen several years ago, a 22" Pac Nor 1-16 8 groove .411 on a 700 L/A. We have shot cast 375 grainers, 300 TSX's, 400 Woodleighs, A-Square softs and solids, even some 400 Barnes bronze solids, 180 Barnes XPB's and the ubiquitous Hornady 300 gr. FN and spitzers.
The 300's clock at 2,485, the 400's go 2,250 with RL-15. I've never found the need to use any other fuel.

All bullets shot well, but for our uses (and overall economy), the 300 Barnes X and TSX bullets do the work of the heavier bullets with velocity and trajectory that make the cartridge more than just a big hammer.
Another thing that has not been brought up: the 400 really doesn't exhibit the recoil that it "should" have, at least not with a decent fitting stock.


I'd rather spend the day with the 400/300's or 400's over lots of 338's/250's, 300 Wins./200's and most certainly the 300 Wby. with 200's.

All I've shot so far is about a half dozen hogs, but it has never failed to anchor any of them VERY quickly.

Congrats on your rifle. Its a great cartridge that really isn't that complicated to load for, if at all.

Hawk your right about the recoil. It's a real sweetheart. Mine weighs around 7#'s sans scope. Its going to be one heck of a timber rifle for elk, stoked with 300 gr TSX'S.


Keenan

Interesting project. I have a "thing" for '06 based cartridges. A .400 whelen might look nice in the safe next to my 6mm-06, 6.5x280 ai, .35 Whelen, and ofcourse the .25, .27, and .30-06s. I have a nice FN action in my gun room as we speak and a line on a Husky .30-06 barreled action. Makes me think hard about doing one of these .400s albeit a more economy version...

Back from deer hunt......

As promised.

A new 400 Whelen is Born_Sights

I like iron sights. The aforementioned 9x57 rifle with it’s very cool Shiller-style rib and integral sight definitely influenced the design of the 400.

The reality is standard iron sights can be difficult to use in poor light conditions and with old eyes. Aperture sights are generally better in both respects than standard irons. The Rigby style cocking piece sight is better because the aperture is very close to the eye. When Satterlee offered to sell me his, I snapped it up. But, I shoot best with a scope. Most people do.
https://imgur.com/qlqYrAA
https://imgur.com/rVVQXvb

The scope needed to look right, have plenty of eye relief, and have excellent optics to manage shooting conditions in which the 400 might be used. I selected the Leupold 3x fixed scope called the Big Bore. It has enough power for good shooting and more than 4” of eye relief.

The dual sighting system created a challenge because the optimal sight plains are about ¾” different between the Rigby and the Leupold. https://imgur.com/29pMAIe

I was lucky enough to work with Stuart Satterlee in his shop for most of 2 days. It was great fun. Besides the normal gun-crank talk, we worked out the transition between the barrel rib and the receiver bridge. We also came upon a working theory on how to address the sight plain issue.

As we worked on the rig/bridge transition, Stuart whittled nearly .100 off the top of the receiver bridges. https://imgur.com/eW3Q9Zs

That still left about 5/8 difference to be resolved between the Rigby sight and the scope. This was a major conundrum seeking an answer which we simply did not have.

We finally decided that Stuart would machine a stock out of firewood-grade wood around a modified British stalking rifle pattern he had in his shop. He modified the original pattern by removing the wood for the drop box magazine. The 400 does not have one. The rest was up to me.

I took the pattern-stock home. My job was to adjust the pattern dimensions to fit me and to also accommodate the dual sighting systems. The solution evolved in a try it-fix, it, shoot it, repeat, pattern over a few weeks. Once done, I sent the stock to Satterlee and he ran the good-wood on his duplicating machine and sent it to me. He got the new stock pattern for his pattern-library. The eventual design works very well with the cocking piece sight and the Big Bore scope. (See stock design)

One final touch set off the iron sights. Satterlee milled a longitudinal dovetail into the front sight ramp which accepts the interchangeable inserts sold my New England Custom Guns. (NECG). The inserts are held in by a grub screw. At the time the picture was taken some final fitting was due. https://imgur.com/AM0b0VE

The rifle came delivered with two separate cocking pieces; a plain one, and a second dovetailed for the cocking piece sight. All one must do to switch systems is to remove the scope and to swap the cocking pieces. This is a 45 second job, tops. Satterlee gets full marks for delivering a dual sight system which is 1 hole accurate in either mode. Moreover, the behavior is repeatable after each sight change.

Best of all, this solution was one of the most cost effective components. The Rigby sight-system cost $600, including the sight, front inserts, cocking piece, and labor. The scope retails for about $400 + the cost of the rings. The bases are integral to the receiver.

Wheeler dan,if you click on your picture and go to Linked BBCode (message boards & forums) click on the code below,then go to the top where it says EDIT and click on EDIT scroll down to where it says COPY click in COPY then come here and go to where you want to post the pic go click on EDIT again and scroll down to PASTE and click on PASTE then go to PREVIEW REPLY on the bottom of this page and preview the pi.

Thanks for this explanation. I have no idea what it is telling me to do. I have no pix posted in my post, only links.

Any of you gents shoot 41 mag pistol bullets in your 400 Whelens?

I never have,I've shot pistol bullets in my 358 & 458 and found it took all the fun out of big bore plinking. 300 gr Hornady's @ 1850fps is sort of 22ish as it is!

In all the loads I've tested in mine I've not run any pistol bullets through it. I have shot some 300 and 400 grain cast and have a mold for 265 grain LBT wide long nose gas check that I use in my 41 magnum though I've not tried them in the 400. The issue I run into with mine is that it doesn't like short bullets and doesn't feed them well. Even the short 300 grain bullets from Hornady and the 300 grain cast don't feed well. If I keep the COAL out around 3.330 or longer they feed great, regardless of profile. I have not had a smith work on it because to be honest, feed work is best left to those who truly know what they are doing and I do not know anyone in Alaska who can do it. I'm sure there are some smiths here capable of fine tuning the feeding but I do not know who they are. It also hasn't been that big a concern to me. I really don't see the short bullets as viable hunting bullets and I'm not much of a plinker with my hunting rifles. The 300 grain Barnes TSX, Hawk 350 and 400 RN, Swift 350 A Frame, North Fork 300 and 360, the Woodleigh 400 RN and my 400 grain cast all feed perfectly. I can shoot the cast somewhat reduced if I want an inexpensive practice bullet.

I do have a box of the Sierra 170 HPs. I'll bet they'd make a coyote turn inside out fired from my Whelen. Might have to single load them though. That's a really short bullet.

Barnes 180's.

Scooted out at close to 2,900 and shot into soaked newsprint, it resembled a silver dollar. IIRC, they shot okay. Still have one loaded.

Only loaded about 6 or so; POI difference was not close to regular loads, so I run 375 gr. cast loads instead.

Yes, I did all of my fire forming with 41 caliber Hornady 210 grain XTP. The load was 55 grains of 4198. This is good for about 2850 FPS. If you think about this that is a very stout load with a bullet that heavy. The reason for this load was anything less did not fully form the shoulder. BTW, I also just happened to have a .412 round ball mold. With a few grains of bullseye or 700X powder these can be shot at <600 FPS with deadly 25 yard accuracy. No kidding.

Anyway, when I get around to writing the piece on reloading, I will include much more. Marts comments about feeding apply, especially with the round ball load. more later

My FFL's used the 300 Hornady FP and spitzers, Midway blems.

I can't glow enough over the big 400. It duplicates the 375 HH ballistics with 300 grainers, at the same time (as posted a couple times above), it flings 180's at speeds the 7mm Weatherby is attuned to, from the '06 (35 Whelen) hull.

I do wish the old 350 Barnes "X" would have been given the nod over the 300 for it's TSX upgrade, but given the amount of 405's Ruger has put out, I understand.


It's my summation the 300 TSX will do anything a Woodleigh or Hawk 400 grainer would be tasked to do; at the very least it owns velocity and precision.

Dan, this is a fantastic thread on your new rifle project. WoW! I have never experienced any project so keen on so many unique details.

the picture posting process (beyond your posting the links), starts with copying the "image location" then just adds the phrase "img" in brackets at the beginning of the link, and "/img" in brackets at the end, and vous ala! visible link!

Morris Melani lives near by and can do it.