Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Elk Hunting Denver Post Article SW CO Elk Herd

"On the ranch" being the operative words

Actually, CPW has increased September bear tags by quite a bit the last few years.

There is some evidence to suggest black bear predation may be effecting muley populations. The CPW currently have two large predator-deer studies going right now.

Grizzlies routinely prey on elk calves, that's been well demonstrated in Yellowstone, but nothing has yet suggested black bears do to any significant extent.

Smioke,

My info is a few years old, but the quotas on nonresidents means there are less nonresident hunters in Colorado than there was 20 years ago before quotas began.

The biggest problem is the resident population of Colorado has practically doubled in the last 20 years..........Lots of lifestyle immigrants, and many of them hunt.

Good point. Without bait and hounds, the success rate is probably not as high, but there is a LOT more bear tags out there in the Sept hunt then there was during spring hunting with bait and hounds prior to the ballot initiative.

Having said that, my son and I killed bears last year, and when I checked mine into the Montrose office with a few days remaining in the season, they had already checked in almost twice the number of bears than they ever have at that office for the September hunt. That may have been an anomaly though because of weather. Didn't hear anything abut this year yet. But there more tags in recent years. .

We also have to think about the fact that elk are NOT declining in the other 75-80% of the state. Is the CPW doing a great job everywhere else?

That's what the article was talking about. Pregnancy rates appear to be normal. Winter survival is not. That can indicate poor habitat. Or calves being born too late in the year. Or predators killing calves when they're still neonates.

David Peterson was quoted numerous times in the article, bashing CP&W for mismanaging his elk herd and putting too much pressure on his elk in September. What the article fails to mention is he was a big proponent of amendment 10 back in 1992 banning spring bear hunting, baiting and hounds because it was unethical in his eyes. He's gonna have a real dumb look on his face when he realizes all those extra bears he helped create are eatin his elk calves!

Well they screwed up the elk herd in Unit 5 4(Gunnison) and in units 24/ 25 FlatTops when they issued all those cow OTC tags. 2000 a year for 3-5 years.They refused to admit that there was a big winter kill in 2007/2009 until two years later even though hunters were telling them there was. Me included.

I still say,reduce hunting pressure in Sept so more cows get bred earlier rather in the 2n /3rd estrus cycle so the calves are bigger and stronger come late fall. What do I know though.I don't have degree from some university in the east that has no elk population

"In one study in Idaho, black bears took about 60 to 70 percent of the elk calves in the first couple of weeks," Toman said. "So it's really important from that standpoint to get all of the calves on the ground in synchronicity, and get it over with quickly. The bears can only eat so much."

"The second-lowest calf birth weight was in 2002, when the study started, which coincided with a cold, dry March. March is the last trimester of a cow elk's pregnancy. In 2003, the birth weight was very strong and the spring was warm and wet. Another drop in the birth weight was in 2006 following a winter that had persistent snow crust that limited the animals' access to forage."

The above quotes were from an article in The Billings Gazette " Study reaffirms bears biggest predator threat to young elk calves

BRETT FRENCH Gazette Outdoor Writer Nov 1, 2006"

Add in predation from lions, coyotes, eagles, etc., and being a baby ungulate in the wild is a pretty tough life.

On the issue of habitat related, elk have crossed in the new mexico for the winter, and never came back to Colorado.

The Jicarilla apaches develop every spring, in every canyon, and plant alfalfa for the elk. They have been very successful in keeping colorados elk there.

Yes. Prey species "flood the market" when a population gives birth together in a short period of time. Predators become satiated, and the remaining neonates survive to start following their mothers.

So, it's important that a large proportion of the population is bred in the same short period of time. The argument is that if there is not enough mature bulls in the population, that breeding can be more spread out, and a larger number of females will not be bred until second estrus. Consequently birth will be spread out. This is what they thought was happening in NM in the 60's, and why NM ultimately reduced licenses dramatically. When NM tried to reduce licenses by 10-20%, the success rates for hunters went up a lot, and they killed as many elk with less hunters as they were before. To get a significant decrease in harvest, there needs to be a BIG decrease in licenses. That would be really tough to do in most western states today. The political fallout would probably be too much.

In Colorado, there has been some small studies on black bears and what they are eating at that time, and very little elk parts were found in black bear poop. A lot of fawn parts were found though......

In large part, CPW got tired of the flak when elk crossing the hwy were being hit by cars on Hwys 50 and 135 during the winter. In the late 90's and early 2000's a couple kids in the vehicles were hurt, and the Gunnison/Crested Butte folks wanted CPW to "do something". So they started feeding elk to keep them from crossing the hwys at night headed onto the ag land. Of course, this type of feeding violates CPW's "policy" of not feeding unless there is a real risk of the adult, breeding population starving to death. After a few years of feeding CPW if decided the existing habitat couldn't support elk without feeding there were too many. Makes sense to me.
Although the CPW did underestimate the winter kill in the late 2000's, but that seemed to be mostly deer. Importantly, those winters were not all that bad by previous harsh winters standards, and points to other factors as contributing to the winter kills those years.


I don't disagree that there might be a disturbance factor going on in Sept in the SW. But again, the human population of Colorado practically doubled in a short time. There is a LOT of other activities taking place also during that time of the year.

If that was in the late 90's early 2000's then why did CPW start that Either sex w/ 500cap in about 2010 and then bull w /500cap in 2015 & 2016 and now they are trying to build the herd back up? Previous to that I read the elk herd was about 6000-6500.They took it down to less than 3500,now want it back to 4000+.

AND how do they answer as to now public land cows are all "A" tags,but when they jump the fence they become "B" tags in Unit 54?

The winter kill in the Flat Tops was more than just deer.I attended all DOW meetings in COS in the ensuing years and two years later they admitted it

Were the studies done recently with this new high population of bears? They are opportunistic feeders.