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Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 59,910
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 59,910 |
There has always been considerable confusion on the part of many hunters and handloaders on the velocity and placement limitations of cup-and-core bullets on big game, which started almost immediately after practical smokeless rifle powders appeared in the 1880's. This obviously continues to this day, and obviously always will.
But there's something else going on here, which is also common and apparently always will be. Many hunters also assume that because ONE bullet of a certain brand acts in a certain way, then ALL bullets of the same brand will as well. Have heard this not just about cup-and-cores but premium bullets as well. Most hunting bullet companies adjust the design of their bullets depending on what size of game a hunter might use them on. In cup-and-cores the adjustments can include jacket thickness (often the only design feature many hunters consider, if they even consider it at all) and core hardness. Which is exactly not all Sierra bullets work the same way on big game, just as not all Barnes, Nosler or Swift bullets work exactly the same way.
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.” John Steinbeck
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Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 22,990
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 22,990 |
To all those who decry the disruptive action and lack of complete penetration of GK's on deer-sized game- did said animals die quickly or did they scamper off before dying somewhere on the back 40 or worse yet get away Scot-free?
Sierra .30 GameKings have been my go-to's for deer out of various .30-06's for 40 years now. Excessive meat damage? Sometimes. Quick deaths? Always. Personally I like a bullet that disrupts to hell and gone inside the animal and murders it right there, finito. I place a higher value on a quick death than any concern for a couple pounds of inedible bloodshot meat. Were I to engage a larger tougher animal, sure, I would switch out to a TSX or Partition but that's not likely to happen for me ever again so for me it's a moot point.
Match the bullet to its target and try not to over think it too much.
"You can lead a man to logic, but you cannot make him think." Joe Harz "Always certain, often right." Keith McCafferty
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Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 9,682
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 9,682 |
Agreed, but I think you're fighting an uphill battle.
Safe Shooting! Steve Redgwell www.303british.comGet your facts first, then you can distort them as you please. - Mark Twain Member - Professional Outdoor Media Association of Canada
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Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 22,990
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 22,990 |
That's ok. I've been tilting at windmills all my life.
"You can lead a man to logic, but you cannot make him think." Joe Harz "Always certain, often right." Keith McCafferty
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Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 7,263
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 7,263 |
They work great for windmills too.
"When you disarm the people, you commence to offend them and show that you distrust them either through cowardice or lack of confidence, and both of these opinions generate hatred." Niccolo Machiavelli
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 942
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 942 |
All I know is the 150's from a 30-06 is tough enough to kill 200-250lb hogs even when hit in the shoulder. They don't go far and never ever have I lost one. Now I only hunted hogs for the 8 years I lived in GA so I don't have a huge sampling. But I guess I must have killed 50-60 or so with the 30-06 and 150 BTSP Gamekings. The rest were with 7mm-08 and 25-06 and even the 243 with 95 grain Nosler BT.
Alcohol, Tobacco & Firearms should be a convenience store; not a government agency.
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Joined: May 2004
Posts: 779
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 779 |
To all those who decry the disruptive action and lack of complete penetration of GK's on deer-sized game- did said animals die quickly or did they scamper off before dying somewhere on the back 40 or worse yet get away Scot-free?
Sierra .30 GameKings have been my go-to's for deer out of various .30-06's for 40 years now. Excessive meat damage? Sometimes. Quick deaths? Always. Personally I like a bullet that disrupts to hell and gone inside the animal and murders it right there, finito. I place a higher value on a quick death than any concern for a couple pounds of inedible bloodshot meat. Were I to engage a larger tougher animal, sure, I would switch out to a TSX or Partition but that's not likely to happen for me ever again so for me it's a moot point.
Match the bullet to its target and try not to over think it too much. +1. Well put
Only a fool would sell an accurate .30-06
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Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 315
Campfire Member
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Campfire Member
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 315 |
They work great for windmills too. Too much grist damage for my taste.
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Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 18,033
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 18,033 |
I've heard the issues with the Game King loads, but have never experienced it my self. I've got a Mauser in '06 that really likes the Federal Premium 165 gr. Sierra Game King BTSP. I haven't had a deer hit by this round walk more than 5 feet yet. All shots were heart, lung, or front shoulder shots.
molɔ̀ːn labé skýla
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Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 442
Campfire Member
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Campfire Member
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 442 |
I never knew I had made such a poor bullet choice till I started reading on the fire and found out my Sierras and SSTs were junk. Maybe one day I’ll make a better choice but those junk bullets kill stuff dead and usually with little to no tracking.
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Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 26,108
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 26,108 |
To all those who decry the disruptive action and lack of complete penetration of GK's on deer-sized game- did said animals die quickly or did they scamper off before dying somewhere on the back 40 or worse yet get away Scot-free?
They scampered off quickly, and took a while to catch up with and shoot them again. I don't expect all critters to go bang flop when I shoot them in the front half, but I do expect a bullet like the 165 gr GK to at least penetrate to the further side of a medium size muley. And when it happens three times in a row I think that's enough to make a judgement of the bullet. Maybe Sierra has changed the 308 cal, 165 gr GK in the last 20 years........ I've killed 8-9 elk with the Sierra 270 cal, 150 gr GK. Will the 150 gr GK kill elk? Yes. Is it a good elk bullet? Nope. There is a distinction between those two things that is lost on folks sometimes.
Casey
Not being married to any particular political party sure makes it a lot easier to look at the world more objectively... Having said that, MAGA.
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 8,814
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 8,814 |
Based on my experience with180 SGK this year - I wouldn't use them. I shot 5 animals this year - 4 deer, 1 elk. Not an exit, even on broadside deer. Running these 2630 from my 308. I'm in search of a new hunting bullet for my 308............... I'm not starting a fight or calling anyone a liar. I just can't reconcile this with my experience with even lighter Sierras on deer, particularly the .308" 150 Game King. Feel free to believe whatever you choose. At least you were polite in doubting my post which I do appreciate. Maybe there is some validity to my conversation with the Sierra rep about my experiences this year. He stated I should go to a lighter GK and push it faster. I doubted that because it doesn't seem likely - and doesn't line up with my experiences with cup and core bullets. This also seems to line up with some of the other posters doubting my statements on the 180 GK. I'm fairly certain what I observed. I also load for my nephew and he shoots 180 Sierra Prohunter over 57 gr IMR 4350 for about 2800 ft/sec in his 06. He did achieve exits on 2 deer this year. I still dont understand how running a lighter cup and core bullet faster results in more penetration. It seems counter intuitive.
Adversity doesn't build character, it reveals it.
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 942
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 942 |
I guess deer in some states are just a hell of a lot tougher than the deer I have hunted for the past 43 years. Thank goodness for the 25 caliber, 100 grain Nosler ballistic tips. If it wasn't for them I might never recover another whitetail.
Alcohol, Tobacco & Firearms should be a convenience store; not a government agency.
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Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 44,710
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 44,710 |
Feel free to believe whatever you choose. At least you were polite in doubting my post which I do appreciate. Let me be plain: I don't doubt your word, or your experience. I did not mean that at all.
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