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Originally Posted by Formidilosus
Despite a few getting emotionally invested... everyone is free to do as they please, however for those on the sidelines-



Dropping the hammer gets us nothing other than getting in the habit of pulling a trigger when you don’t mean to fire. It’s an administrative action. Eventually it leads to a distracted action. I don’t care who you are- at some point you are going to unload or handle a firearm while distracted. When part of your administrative procedures is to arbitrarily pull the trigger: you’ve just set yourself up for an ND. And it was for no reason. There is no mechanical or safety reason to arbitrarily pull the trigger. You have to (should) clear it/check condition to handle it, so instead of pulling a trigger for no reason- apply the safety and give yourself one more layer to add some margin of error built in.




If you ever have loaded firearms around you, do yourself a favor and add redundancies to save yourself from a “bang” when you wanted a “click”. Or don’t.



I don’t own any AR’s but this reminds me of something that happened to me probably about 15 years ago. I was Mule deer hunting with my dad, brother and brother in-law. We all left camp in different directions and I was dropping down into some big fir timbered gullies and hillsides to start stillhunting. My routine if I was hiking was to close the bolt on an empty chamber, but full magazine, and pull the trigger. Then when I got serious and started stillhunting, I would load the chamber and put the safety on.
This time when I was ready to start stillhunting, I chambered a round and instead of putting the safety on, I had a brain fart and pulled the trigger. Scared the [bleep] out of myself.
I have to be honest and admit that I still keep the chamber empty and with the firing pin down when I’m hiking, although usually by holding the trigger while closing the bolt, but maybe I should have gotten into the habit of keeping the rifle cocked and safety on with an empty chamber instead.
The only good news is after scaring the crap out of yourself, you tend to not repeat the mistake and haven’t.

Just thought I’d share the story, and this is a very interesting topic even though I’m not an AR owner,,,,,yet.

Last edited by mod7rem; 12/04/18.
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Originally Posted by Formidilosus
Originally Posted by boatanchor

Not that simple with AR's , I always store mine with hammer dropped, no magazine. First thing when I pick it up pull bolt back visually and physically inspect chamber,
Never use the safety unless round in chamber and I am on the move.



Now the problem is use of the safety is NOT a part of your sub-conscious gunhandling. It is a conscious act, and done enough times with enough stress and/or distraction there will be a time where you forget, and now you are running around with a rifle that is loaded and off safe.


I can honestly say that I have never had this happen, on the other hand I have had a few times when I have pulled the trigger on a coyote and my safety was ON

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Can anybody tell me what happens when an AR has a defective extractor, you inadvertently miss a chambered cartridge and you drop the hammer?


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Originally Posted by Tyrone
Can anybody tell me what happens when an AR has a defective extractor, you inadvertently miss a chambered cartridge and you drop the hammer?


You did not perform a correct clearance drill BY THE NUMBERS.

There is no "inadvertently" in doing something the correct way.

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Can anyone tell me of an instance where the gun fired with the safety on and finger off the trigger?

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Originally Posted by bsa1917hunter

Some trap guns dont even have safeties, and for good reason. You may think it's a game to fu ck with someones gun, but i feel that type of behavior is unsafe. How someone safely stores their firearm should be left up to that individual as well. What did you do with the real John Burns?


Lighten up.

I can understand your point but the only guys who get a safety engaged are guys who don't mind.

Much like the ball and dummy drill it can help diagnosis a stopped swing or flinch.

If you are content with your safety practice then great.

I enjoy discussing safety techniques in an effort to become a better shooter. grin

Originally Posted by TWR
Can anyone tell me of an instance where the gun fired with the safety on and finger off the trigger?


Not in the AR.

Most bolt guns can not pass the Mil drop test.


John Burns

I have all the sources.
They can't stop the signal.

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I'd rather not give my location away by racking a shell into my weapon...

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safety on, gun is hot...who has time to try to remember..well did I eject the shell or is it in this rifle "click", or was it the other one, let me take a look in the chamber, O its too dark to see, well I will just rack the slide..well shucks I just got shot by the bad man...let me see if I can get a selfie with the blood and everything to post on the fire..


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Every AR I’ve ever picked up, first thing is a chamber check then on safe, unless I’m planning on using it for immediate action.

If there is already a mag in the action, I remove the mag and do the above.

If I’m loading it, I do the above and chamber a round.

An AR can’t go off with the safety on safe. No amount of bouncing will get it to go off unless the safety is moves to fire.

So, for me at least, on safe is the preferred method for every event except actively shouldering and firing the weapon.


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Originally Posted by JohnBurns
I used to drop the hammer on an empty chamber when storing or otherwise handling an unloaded AR.

Years back ringworm called me out for not having the selector in the safe position in a hunting photo.

This caused me to reevaluate my gun handling and now I never drop the hammer and always engage the safety.

I think is a better way to safely handle the AR platform.

Over on AR15.com we have had a few spirited discussion.

Thoughts?


In the AF when we turned our M-16 in at the end of shift they were always cleared, trigger pulled to release the sear and left off safe of course since it cannot be put on safe in that condition.

When not stored we were required to load magazine, not put one in chamber and left off safe of course. At times when we were expecting trouble, like after 9/11 we had a round in the chamber and rifle on safe.

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The AR safety controls hammer movement. It is not a firing pin blocking/locking safety.

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You know the firing pin has about zero mass and there is no possible way for the firing pin to fire a round unless it is hit by the hammer?



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Originally Posted by David_Walter
You know the firing pin has about zero mass and there is no possible way for the firing pin to fire a round unless it is hit by the hammer?



Sir, the one thing I have learned over the years is "never to say never."
There is a reason go/no go gauges and firing pin protrusion gauges exist.

Soft primers, protruding primers, damaged ammunition, excessive wear, wrong sized (headspaced) bolts and many other things can contribute to something unintentional. Are the odds slim? I agree they are. Very slim.

The safety is not completely perfect in and of itself. It is not so failsafe it can be depended on 100% without other safety awareness and muzzle controls in place.

With so many folks building and assembling the platform now, I feel we are sharing very useful information here. Many of us have the knowledge and experience of good training and high level maintenance of our rifles. Some may believe there is no importance to the proper fit of components and proper PMCS maintenance.

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Thanks

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WTM45,

I agree with your sentiment, that said, i’ve never seen an AD with a AR platform where it was properly assembled and on safe.


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Strangest, hard to explain thing I ever saw was my 1SG wanted to demonstrate the potential of injury with a M200 blank round from a M16A1. Without the blank adaptor on the muzzle, he attempted to demonstrate the damage which can be done to a styrofoam coffee cup placed over the muzzle when firing the blank round. With the rifle on safe, he loaded a magazine, yanked the charging handle, dropping the bolt with the muzzle down and it fired the blank round. The rifle did not feed or chamber the next round from the magazine, nor did it eject the fired one.

I saw the selector was on safe.

He then charged the rifle with the muzzle elevated, he placed cup on muzzle, rolled the selector to fire and let it rip. Cup was quite damaged. Point well received by the troops, but he and I stepped aside and took a peek at the rifle and brass.

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OMG, still going.... always keep the muzzle in a safe direction... what more does one need


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Originally Posted by WTM45
Strangest, hard to explain thing I ever saw was my 1SG wanted to demonstrate the potential of injury with a M200 blank round from a M16A1. Without the blank adaptor on the muzzle, he attempted to demonstrate the damage which can be done to a styrofoam coffee cup placed over the muzzle when firing the blank round. With the rifle on safe, he loaded a magazine, yanked the charging handle, dropping the bolt with the muzzle down and it fired the blank round. The rifle did not feed or chamber the next round from the magazine, nor did it eject the fired one.

I saw the selector was on safe.

He then charged the rifle with the muzzle elevated, he placed cup on muzzle, rolled the selector to fire and let it rip. Cup was quite damaged. Point well received by the troops, but he and I stepped aside and took a peek at the rifle and brass.


My issued M16a1 would slamfire every single time if you dropped the bolt with the selector switch on full-auto. I've never seen one do it on safe, but I'm not saying it's impossible.

Last edited by antelope_sniper; 12/07/18.

You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.

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Safe doesn't keep a free floating fire pin from moving. If tolerances are max, and or other things out of spec....


We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
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This is another thread that indicates those capable of learning.


mike r


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Wish you were better

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