Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Bowhunting To the dark side / crossbow

After a shoulder injury last spring I was hoping to heal up enough to shoot my compound bow this season. Didn't happen, I tried to draw it once in Nov. and had to face the fact, not gonna happen either.

I have followed the crossbow recommendation thread in anticipation of buying something after the first of the year. I shot my nephews crossbow this weekend. His is an excaliber micro 335 recurve. Small, light and fast. He sold me on the simplicity of the recurve limbs and ease of changing strings if need be even in the field. Life time warranty.

Low and behold, I found a deal on fleabay on an excaliber micro 335 completely set up and ready to go. Extra strings, 15 bolts, illuminated crossbow scope, nice case... About a $1200+ Set up, got it for $655. I decided to get while the getting was good.
I may even have it in time to hunt with a few days with this season. Should be delivered next week.

I really liked shooting my compound

Congrats, and no shame, I dodged a bullet by being lucky enough for a right shoulder rotator cuff tear to heal itself, it took a year and it sucked.

I have a 71 year old hunting buddy, he called this summer and said, "well, I guess you wont want to hunt with me anymore" I said, what the hell, he said, I had to buy a crossbow, cant draw my compound anymore, I ask, have you zeroed it yet, he said no, I said, well get your ass over here we have work to do.

I bowhunted with him a few times this year, it's all good with me, we're all still hunters!

I got my first deer 2 days ago with my neighbors crossbow (excaliber matrix). I could really get used to it.

I have torn rotocuffs at least three times. Two of which were badly enough that I figured my shotgun/rifle shooting days were over and it took over a year of painful, careful, diligent rehab work to recover some. I no longer have the strength and speed I used to have so bird hunting is frustrating. Oddly, the single best tool I have found for rehab is a run of the mill compound bow. I have done the work after each injury to maintain shoulder mobility and prevent adhesions so in my case building muscle to protect the shoulder was most important to me. I picked up a Mission Craze bow for cheap and cranked it down to 15-20 lbs and just started shooting. It built muscle where it needed to be. My right shoulder now is good. I am as happy with it as I would be with what I would consider a very successful surgical repair. The left shoulder has been damaged less, but it has not progressed as well because I shoot right handed. It is far better than it was though. When I first started shooting it had a tendency to pop out on me and would fling the shot some feet off target. Now it's stable and I can shoot respectable targets to the point that my current bow, a No-Cam, needs to be balanced with a decent sight to keep up with how accurately I can shoot. Those of you who shoot target archery know That a hinge release is absolutely dependent upon stability and strength in your shoulders. Even when I haven't shot for months, that hinge is still my favorite release now. For my money, the best rehab of anything I went through was the Craze. As long as you start at very low poundage (which not all bows will adjust down to) and go very slow it can work quite well. When I considered the Craze initially it seemed a no-brainer to me. I couldn't even get another referral to an orthopedic for what I got the bow for.

Full disclosure: I do shoot all of my deer lately with a crossbow, but for other specific reasons

The compound vs crossbow hate is humorous.

The very people that buy new bows every year or so, to take advantage of the latest technology,
condemn a form of their weapon of choice.....


That's many centuries old.

My dad has taken up archery, with a crossbow.
And I think thats the problem.
Compound users don't like the competition more hunters provide.


Damn shame to even make that statement.

Hunting shouldn't be about human competition.

Correct, the crossbow has been around since @400 BC. (Belly bow). It is a weapon with a long history in both military and civilian life. I use one by choice, as any Ohio archer can. It is a bow.

Got mine last Spring to get more quiet time in the woods for deer. Two shots, two deer. Once rifle season started, I was able to pass on some does with no "meat pressure", in hopes of seeing a buck. Was going out this morning for does, but I didn't sleep well, my back hurt, and it's cold. Went back to sleep. Still lots of time.

The best part is all the deer I saw while hunting with the xbow. Got to play a little hide and seek with a few bucks, again with no pressure, which is most of the fun. Only downside is that the xbow is kind of heavy and awkward to tote around the woods compared to a rifle. Overall, a good investment. Might use it for Spring turkey hunting.

I've had shoulder issues for years. Through specific exercises and a strict practice schedule I manage to keep things under control and hunt with my recurve or compound but there are random times shoulder pain becomes unbearable. It's bad news if one of these times is when I've scheduled time off for a hunt. I have a close hunting friend with similar issues. We went together and bought a single crossbow (Excalibur) as an emergency weapon for those times when one of us has a shoulder flare up and a scheduled hunt. I haven't had to use it this fall but my friend has for a couple of weekends. It's easy to be critical of crossbows until you really need one. I don't find the same enjoyment practicing with the crossbow as I do the recurve or compound but it's nice knowing I have the option if needed.

I have been shooting bows now for over 55 years ,won a few awards,killed some nice animals with recurve,long bow and compounds from the time Mr. Allen invented the compound. I have had 3 back surgeries,one neck surgery and both shoulders rebuilt. I missed this years bow season and it was a sad fall with no bowhunting, I don`t want to use a x-bow but in June 2019 when I am healed up from my last surgery on shoulder I will have to make a decision then. I just feel the dark side is not for me .

Sorry to hijack the OPs thread. I'm actually happy you've found a way to get back out during the archery season with a legal primitive weapon for that season. Congrats on finding a good deal too. Good luck if you're able to get out and hunt with it. From what I hear, they're a lot of fun.



That's one opinion. I tend to think of them differently. It's a primitive weapon for sure. A bow it's not. A friend of mine nicknamed them cross-guns. And I tend to agree with that. To me, a bow requires a different set of actions. The biggest difference being a bow requires you to draw, hold, "aim" while the animal is close. And there is no mechanism to have the tool hold the bow at full draw for you. Just a difference in opinion I suppose but to me, a crossbow isn't a "bow" at all, at least as far as what's required to hunt with a bow.



Classifying all of us archers like you do is ludicrous. We don't all feel that way. I shoot recurves, longbows and compound gear. I have zero issue with the state allowing crossbows during the archery season and I don't think the number hunters using them makes a significant difference, at least around here, as far as hunting competition goes. I've yet to actually see anyone in the woods with one. I just don't care what the other guy is using. But to call it a bow...well, I just disagree. Shooting a crossbow doesn't require different technique than shooting a rifle or muzzle loader. You can have the crossbow in ready to fire state with the safety on for a whole hunt/sit/whatever. What it does require is getting/being closer. You can't cock a bow and hunting with a bow requires more motion from the archer.

Perhaps I'm picking nits, but to me a crossbow isn't archery at least in the way I think about it. Maybe it's a form of bow, but I just don't see it as archery.

Like I said before, have no problem with the state allowing their use during the archery season.

You don't consider cams that drop the hold poundage down to less than 1/6 of the bow's draw weight to be a mechanism that more or less allows it to hold the bow at full draw for you?

I shoot compounds and crossbow. I damn sure can't hold 60 pounds forever, But I can for certain hold ten pounds for a very long time. Unless we are talking about hunting on the ground in plain sight, even that advantage to me is pretty small. I hunt from elevated stands and maybe one out of four ever even looks up unless I try to get them to. I have for years shot a lot of my deer at very short range even for archery. The bow I shoot most is 85% let off. It has a 4x lense and a lense in the peep to correct for my eyesight. It's not quite the optics currently on my crossbow, but there is no principle difference.

It sure does help. But I still have to draw the bow, hold the bow at draw, aim the bow and make the shot all without alerting the deer. I can't pick up a cocked compound bow hanging on a rest next to me, aim, turn the safety off and fire it. Compound bows sure do help. But I still can't hold my compound bow at full draw for a whole day sit. Like you, when I hunt with my compound bow, I'm shooting 70# draw with 80% letoff so holding about 14# at full draw. The past few years, I've spent more time hunting with traditional gear, which changes the game again. Try holding back even a 50# draw recurve for more than a minute. I hunt from the ground a lot with my bows but use stands too. My experience in stands is that if a deer senses any movement whatsoever, they will and do look up. That's my experience. I understand your points and your opinion. But I still don't consider a crossbow a bow. No disrespect to those that choose to use them, but right now, in my life, they aren't for me. To each their own.

So, the only real difference is that with a compound you have to hold 8-14 pounds, perhaps for a somewhat extended period, and that you don't like crossbows.

I may gain a lot of precision with the crossbow that just is not available to a compound. I definitely gain a lot of precision in just the use of the scope to see the deer, recognize it's orientation to me and to visualize the internal target I am shooting at over either a sighted bow or a instinctive shooter. As conditions deteriorate in terms of light the advantage shifts dramatically to the scope sighted crossbow. While I do have the precision to shoot more accurately at longer ranges with a crossbow, the advantage in that regard is diminished by the simple fact that crossbows are not only loud, they are VERY loud and shots past 20 yards might even be very much less advisable with them than a compound. My No Cam may not be the quietest bow available, but I have yet to be in the line with one that is quieter. If my life depended upon me shooting Bambi at 50 yards with either the No Cam or the Excalibur, I'd go with the No Cam. which is accurate enough in my hands that I can keep my shots in the white on a 5 spot target at that range. I have cut away 3/4 of the sight ring on a sight that I planned on using for hunting with the No Cam whilch also precluded the use of a lense with that sight. I still will not hunt with it though because that peep arreangement just does not allow me a good enough view of the deer to be absolutely certain of orientation. The last deer I shot with the crossbow for this year I tooks a shot that was just not reasonable with a compound because I had the time and the ability to ascertain precisely where the stuff I wanted to hit and the stuff I wanted to avoud was inside the deer. That is one of the main things a crossbow affords the user that a compound any vertical bow will never be able to offer, and that is something that bow hunters need badly if they want to decrease wounding losses.

I have shot bows for 60 odd years and killed deer with them since I was a young teen. I used to shoot 55 to 85 pound recurves. I look at cross bows as just another bow because they are still shooting arrows and comparatively low speeds and thus rainbow trajectories. The biggest difference to me between them is that in order to make a shot and be able to see precisely where that arrow will go the vertical bow archer needs to be a lot more selective in which shots he takes especially so in low light conditions.

Yeah, crossbows provide some significant advantages. But... they are nowhere near the leap from recurves to compounds when it comes to putting arrows on paper targets. Go to any range that sponsors league shooting and you'll find lots of people turning in targets that would have been excellent for olympic shooters pre-compound bow era.

Actually, that isn't what I said. I think crossbows are great. I don't think of them as bows. And they aren't for me.

Also, no on the "only real difference"...if you read what I wrote, I think the biggest difference in a hunting situation is that you don't need to draw the crossbow. It's already locked and loaded. You pick it up, aim, fire. There is still a difference between holding back 14# (or 50# like I do with my recurve or longbow) and holding back NOTHING.

I'm glad OP can get out with a legal primitive weapon and hunt. Good for him. And I've no issue with crossbows during the archery season. Look, MILES58, it's just an opinion. You don't need to agree and you won't change my mind. to each their own. I'll continue to use my bows and you fellas that want to use a crossbow, good. Go for it. Enjoy and good luck.

Big difference between them not being bows and you not thinking of them as bows.

Glad you don't mind us getting to use them. Now I can sleep at night.😜

Happy to help you out.

as I have said and posted on this site even with my health issue`s and being 65 years of age I still feel the need to be a true bowhunter and draw my bow on the animal and release the arrow,otherwise I might as well just use a rifle. but that`s just my thought as a long time archer not wanting to go to the dark side and use a x-bow,its just not the same for me, but that is a bridge i may have to cross in June 2019 to start using a x-bow ?

Pete, you are of course, welcome to your opinion, but by the phyiscs, it is a bow. How that power is held, is immaterial. As I'm sure you and I do not shoot a vertical bow the same, either. I have never used a release, never even tried one. I do not draw and hold at full draw waiting for that shot to appear. I draw only when the shot is already in front of me. Until then, I don't even move. When I draw, it's one movement, and release. Very fast and no sights at all on my bows. We have two very different styles, but they are both bow hunting. Mine is simply an older style, designed for warfare.

until my last injury I still shot my long bow and at the age of 6 years old that was the type of bow I started with 59 years ago a long bow.yes I shoot a compound too. my son uses his Black Widow 70 lb. Longbow for deer . my son is very fit and strong he handles that 70 lbs of his long bow much better than I do my 50 lb. longbow .so you shooting archery different than us no I don`t think so .

I like the longbow, but I've been shooting the same Indian Stalker compound for the last 39 years. (Other bows as well, recurve, longbow, crossbow, foot bow, ect.)

The harvest rate is several times what a compound and traditional bows are. They are a lot like a shotgun with a slug barrel. The guy with a new crossbow was at the range. he was putting arrows in a 2" circle @ 50 yds. He had it on a rest. There is no comparison between that and a compound. It even had a 500 dollar scope tha illuminated. I didn't even think they were legal. It is going to change game harvest laws very soon with the higher harvest rate. I will say, there seems to be less wounded deer stories from crossbows. Wisconsin has to make changes. They need to make a separate season for them , or reduce the doe harvest to make up for the better efficiency of crossbows. Crossbows sales was up 5,000 from last year but down 9,000 traditional deer tags, and down 14,000 gun deer sale tags this year form last year. That being said, we may not have to reduce doe tags cause there are less hunters out there. . . . And I'm not against crossbows, they have their place for older guys and disabled. I am 55 and hurt my rotator real bad pulling back on a buck on Nov. 7. I was so cold and stiff I couldn't pull back the bow. Then I tried harder and pulled my rotator, so I try harder while the buck is standing there , chip shot if there ever was one and would almost for sure been a dead deer and would shave been my best buck in 10 years. I may have to go to e crossbow but I love my Mission Endeavor bow. I only have it at 47 lbs pull to boot. Took me a week just to be able to pull it back again. Went back out and drew back on s mailer buck on the last day of bow and was so happy I could do it I didn't even care I didn't get the deer. I have to say , I dont like it when I see 30 yr olds , a foot taller and 100 lbs bigger than me out there with a crossbow. This tells me they are capable , just too lazy to practice.

A good friend of mine is sponsored by Matthews. He'd consider a 2"circle at 50yards with a compound a simple task. I've watched him break arrows with more arrows. Good equipment helps, but it all boils down to the archer.

paper targets is different than live wild game in the mountains, its just not the same

I think your guilt over using a crossbow will soon vanish. Although I loved my compounds, I REALLY love my crossbows, and if I had to do it all over again would have used the crossbow from the get go. So nice not buying all the "junk" associated with compounds. Heck, they cost as much as a rifle, yet in a few short years you can't even sell them at a garage sale.

And both of my crossbows are Excaliburs. The simplicity and ruggedness second to none. Mine are both older models (Ibex and Vortex), but the extra weight and width are of no consequence to my hunting style. I just put on a Twilight DLX scope on the Ibex...what a difference. Makes me anxious for next year.

Ethical, functional tools.

"The guy with a new crossbow was at the range. he was putting arrows in a 2" circle @ 50 yds. " you set the parameters, friend.

There is no way I can hold 2" @ 50 yds. If I practiced every day cause I was representing a bow company I would be much better. After hanging drywall and taping and demoing all day I dont bother with shooting as much . Also , I always believed 50 yds was too far for a deer anyway . They start and stop so quick it is impossible to be sure of a clean hit. I never shot a deer past 20 yds with my bow and likely never will. This self emposed tough standard has made me a better hunter. Because of this , I get very close to deer. I like that ,, brings back the hunt in bow hunting. I guess I could go to 50 yds and practice. My brother In Law practices to 65 yds and is very good, but when the deer comes by , like this year a buck at 32 yds, he wounds them. They do jump the string. How they are that fast is a miracle. I dont know if a crossbow would be any better than a compound Im not sure they are faster or not. They are more accurate cause you can rest them and this guy had a scope to boot.

Well the postman made the delivery yesterday. I got the limbs bolted on and made sure everything is tight and secure. Didn't get a chance to shoot it yet but looking forward to it. It has the twilight Dlx illuminated scope on it. Supposed to shoot the 16 1/2 in bolts at 335 fps.
It's a sweet looking little broad head slinger. Bare it weighs under 6 lbs. Just 25 inches wide uncocked.
I'm thinking the critters will be just as dead as they would be with anything else!

1) neither could I, but my friend Bob is a bit of a perfectionist, you do not want to see his woodworking skills, (serious overkill)
2)when I was living in California, I spent a lot of time along the L.A. river, there is an archery range there with range markers and targets to 70yards, and I made full use of them. I will not take a shot at a living animal at more than @45yrds either. Again, a self set limit for the same reasons you mentioned.
3)a crossbow is better for reasons you did not list. I am most accurate with a compound set at 50lbs. But I do not always get a pass through, or even a second hole. And the arrow is the cork in the wine bottle. With a crossbow, I get a full pass through every time, 2 holes, no obstruction to a fast bleed out and a heavy (though short) blood trail. I will add no more than @10yards to my allowable crossbow range over a compound bow. Both weapons are capable of longer range, but not with this archer using them.
Of the two types of weapons, with similar range, and the same target animals, the crossbow is the more ethical choice. Of the one shot taken, it has the greater chance of a clean kill, a fast recovery, a shorter chase, and no property lines issues, due to an animal jumping a fence. I recover straight crossbow bolts in need of cleaning, instead of bent shafts and torn fletchings.

New member here... but not new to crossbow usage. Currently, I have two, and my wife also enjoys their usage for hunting or target shooting. I get amused reading all the + and - comments regarding crossbows. My sentiments on the subject revolve around four words... to each his own.

when people feel x-bows are part of the archery world and should be allowed in archery as a drawn bow ? well Wisconsin has tried allowing the x-bow in the regular bow season and now because x-bows are easier to use and easier to shoot farther away the kill percentage with a x-bow is very high in the Wisconsin archery season. Wisconsin may now change the rule on a x-bow during the archery season, that's why x-bows are just way easier its pre drawn,locked,and trigger releases the arrow its just not the same. as a old true bowhunter the x-bow is just may be to dark for me ? maybe when I am 75 years of age and more crippled ?

Ohio allows crossbow for anyone. It is full inclusion in archery season, where it belongs. We show no significant increase in deer numbers, no adverse effects. The one shot you take, is simply more likely to produce a clean kill.

maybe Wisconsin has more deer ? Wisconsin x-bow hunters were maybe once good bowhunters and now use a x-bow,don`t forget in Wisconsin baiting is legal also ? maybe Ohio bowhunters are trying to shoot bigger deer ? your post is not valid one minute you tell me you longbow bowhunt next minute you stick up with x-bows ?

From the ODNR website for 2017-2018 season summary:

"...The harvest total during the traditional statewide gun season was 72,509 deer, 2% more than the three-year average
(Table 2). Coshocton, Tuscarawas, Muskingum, Ashtabula, and Guernsey counties led the state in gun harvest (Table 3).
The bonus gun season harvest was 14,043 deer. Coshocton County hunters led the way, harvesting 505 deer during the
two-day season, with Tuscarawas (496), Ashtabula (482), Carroll (411), and Knox (381) counties rounding out the top
five.
Archers reported harvesting 79,352 deer,
about a 3% decline compared to the three-year
average (Table 2). Archers accounted for 43% of
the entire deer harvest, and for the fifth year in
a row, more deer were taken during archery
season than the week of gun season. By
comparison, just 15 years ago the archery
harvest only accounted for about 25% of the
annual harvest (Figure 4). This shift in the
harvest is likely due to the ever-increasing
interest and participation in archery hunting. In
1981, only one of three gun hunters also
bowhunted. This year, 70% of gun hunters also
hunted the archery season...."

Edit: archery as a whole is becoming more popular, also older hunters are now bow hunting, and senior permit prices are discounted or even free. More hunters than ever before, and permit numbers for out of state hunters hunting Ohio are rising. It ain't the bow, it's the number of archers.

does ohio allow baiting ? where is the statistics on x-bows verses recurve,longbows bows,compound bows ? Wisconsin has that comparison.

Yes, we can bait. I fact I have a couple of gravity feeders on my property. I collect acorns from in city and fill my feeders. As for type of bow, I don't think they even ask anymore. It's rifle, shotgun, or archery.
When they first allowed crossbow, they kept track of that stuff pretty closely, but found that it didn't really matter, because you still have to get into bow range, no matter what type of bow.

Feel free to do your own research, it's all public access info. Make yourself useful.

i dare say that the crossbow has greatly cut down on the wounded deer getting away. mine shoots like a slug gun out to 40 yards. while i hunted with a compound and even a recurve many years ago, i was never as confident or as good with them as i am with a crossbow. my only complaint here in PA is that i think the CB hunters take a real toll on the bucks early on. but thats not really a complaint so much as an observation.

Depends upon your local laws, of course, but here we get only one buck a year. No matter how it's taken. So If my one buck is taken with a crossbow, there are more chances come deer gun season for the gun hunters, because they are not in competition with me.

now where I have hunted I have seen more deer wounded and lost by rifle and x-bow hunters ,probably because some never practice much.i still believe true bowhunters only take good shots with there bow and to be honest percentage wise true bowhunters have learned a higher skill level of deer hunting than many who just pull the trigger during their hunt. I feel the x-bow is a harvest weapon but should be maybe in the muzzle loader season ?

Nope, you just contradicted yourself. Crossbow can not be easier, and no skill involved, while at the same time taking massive more deer and no range time. That's utter nonsense, (even if a bit exaggerated). Crossbow requires skill, practice, and the same woods skills and range time as traditional archery. Your prejudice is showing. It uses the same phyiscs, the same type of flight path, just a little further distance. The same flaws in technique or sharpness apply, just with more force.
It's the difference between getting hit by a truck or a motorcycle at 60mph, either way, your dead. The truck just has more follow through. You still have to be woods wise enough to get within range, and the deer will still jump the string, but has less time to react.
The English and the French fought with crossbow vs longbow and the longbow men slaughtered the crossbow men, because in that day, the crossbow was a short range, less effective weapon but easier to train troops to use. Longbowmen could stand out of crossbow range and make the sky black with arrows.
If history is any judge, it it the long bow that is "too deadly" and kicked out of bow season. (TIC)

Fellows ,

I can recall about 40 or so years ago archers screaming and protesting the use of compound bows for deer hunting in the archery season . Said it would decimated the heard .
I'm now knocking on the door of 70 and several conditions have given me a choice of crossbow or not hunting .
It's just another tool in the hunting bag.

MOST OF ALL - we as a group , hunters , cannot afford to fight among ourselves . The antis love it . !!!

Merry Christmas to all.

Soup

Yep, it's just another type of bow. Another tool for the same job.

Just another tool to hunt! In Pennsylvania the so called "United Bowhunters of Pennsylvania" assured hunters the crossbow was the end of archery season as we know it! The woods would be full of slob hunters & poachers...the herd would be decimated and seasons would end! All of this with absolutely no facts to support this the UBP was just playing on hunters fear & lack of knowledge of the weapon. They just did not want to share THEIR woods/seasons with fellow hunters. None of the issues they cautioned hunters about EVER occurred. Archery season is a great time to be in the Pennsylvania woods. The inclusion of the crossbow into the Pennsylvania archery season has been a non issue.

I find the crossbow issue interesting from several angles.

As a young man, I defined myself as a bowhunter. I spent years learning the craft with a bare (no sight) recurve. My ego prevented me from even considering a crossbow until....shoulder surgery after I drew an Iowa archery tag. With a doctor's note, the Iowa DNR allowed me to use a crossbow. I did not like hunting with it due to the horizontal layout of the limbs and sold it after the hunt, but it did allow me to participate.

I'm now nearly old enough for social security and am not as comfortable in treestands and don't pull the bow as well. There may be a crossbow in my future. As the hunting population ages, there may be more of us making the choice of adapting (utilizing a crossbow) or leaving the sport. In fact, a bowhunting friend in church was showing me his crossbow trophy pics this morning.

The world is changing and as hunters we need to be less ridged and more adaptive to insure the future of our sport.

Sorry pete. You can't have it both ways. Wisconsin either pulled crossbows out of archery season because the kill percentage went up so much or, they produce more wounded deer. Which is it? Me personally, when I hear a person talk out of both sides of their mouth I just write it off to neither side really has any intelligencs behind it and I don't believe either side.

I hunt with both, but anymore I only shoot deer with the crossbow and I see no reason not to keep crossbows in the same season as any other bow. Here, like many other places, we have localized over populaions of deer. Firearms are not a good as good a tool to manage that over population as either a vertical bow or a crossbow. Of the four I killed this fall with the crossbow, I could have killed all with my No Cam. I killed my first deer with a bow about 1960, and I have killed a lot in the intervening years with all manner of guns and lately I have started killing a lot with the crossbow because where I live there are just way too many deer. I understand people making their own choices. I even understand people thinking they can make my decisions better than I can. I understand people who wish to have game managed to their advantage

I do not understand people who talk out of both sides of their mouth and don't have the sense to sort things out before they try to manage someone else's option. That goes beyond ignorance.

since you need to reread what I posted, Wisconsin is seriously deciding to change the rule on the use of the x-bow,rather it happens I don`t know ? x-bows and baiting in Wisconsin makes it very easy to kill deer for x-bow people. I have had both shoulders rebuilt and so when someone tells me there shoulders hurt they want a x-bow permit WTF ? your not a real true bowhunter this person just wants to hunt deer during the bow season with a x-bow the easier way.

Miles58 you should just use a x-bow , I on the other hand as a pole climber/powerlineman for 35 years working in all weather conditions and at my age of 65 with a few surgeries and a lot of pride I plan on still drawn a bow again and hunting bigger deer with horns with a drawn bow ,its just a pride thing for me to do it the hard way .

Killroy, I saw kids that never shot a crossbow put 2 arrows in the bullseye at 20 yds. It was on a rest however. Also, I will say , I am not against crossbows . The day will come when I need one or stop bow hunting. There is no doubt that with crossbow accuracy there are less wounded deer out there and more dead ones. In Wisconsin however, we will need to change things around to compensate for the very high harvest rate of crossbow hunters. The success rate for bucks with crossbows is higher than rifles. There are some easy ways to adjust. I bought a bow and a gun tag. I was allowed 6 doe tags and 2 buck tags. We could easily go down to one doe and one buck tag per license and most would never bat an eye. A doe for meat and hunt bucks just for fun. There is no reason for 6 doe tags and we can use our bow/doe tags for rifle too. I had 8 tags and used one, and that was ok with me. I mentioned some posts back I really pulled my rotator cuff pulling back on a buck on Nov. 7. It is still sore and weak. I can pull back my compound at 47 lbs. and thats all I need . Went right through the doe again this year. . . . . but hunting with crossbows over bait?? That is not hunting , that is waiting for a legal target to come by to shoot at. We could ban baiting and that would reduce the kill numbers by a lot. Seems noone knows how to hunt anymore and their skill in scouting is measured by how many times a week ya dump corn. I digress.

The connection is very bad tonight. I have attempted this response 4 times so far. This will be edited until I can get it properly posted. Stand by.

1) get my name right, or I will assume it is an intentional slight.
2) I took a 4point buck with a bent sapling, a bootlace, and a pocketknife. I did it with knowledge, skill, and patience I doubt you could match in your prime. And I did it at 7 yards. And you believe a crossbow makes me too deadly? Ridicules.
3) in my state, the bag limits and season dates vary every year due to herd size and biologists input. Not the whim of the average hunter. We get 1 buck. No matter how we take it, and between 3-7 (or so) does. The doe limits DO matter, more so than the buck limits, because it is the DOE LIMITS that determine next year's herd size, not the bucks. Does often have twins, and ever doe affects at least 2 and sometimes more deer, next year. Just like it takes one rooster, it only takes one buck, but every doe counts.
4)bag limits vary by location, and natural barrier, such as rivers. Ohio always has a higher bag limit where deer are hemmed in by the Ohio river.
5)hunting over bait is legal, and works, but will not produce your buck. (Perhaps a young stupid one, but nothing worth a mount) mainly because the bucks feed at night. The only real draw for him during the day is sex. He's traveling, and scent testing every doe he can find. He's not hanging out at the local feed pile. He's traveling miles sniffing the air for some whiff of a loose slut.
6) if your crossbow men are more accurate than your riflemen, what does that say of the accuracy of your riflemen? They CLEARLY have every advantage over your crossbow men. If you haven't figured it out yet, archery has a much longer season, than rifle. That's why the numbers are higher. We get roughly 4 months for arrows, and no more than 2 weeks for bullets. Usually less. Muzzleloader is a separate season.
7) a childhood rhyme comes to mind: "a man convinced against his will, is of the same opinion still". You are not open to facts, you are just looking for justification of your opinion. Your prejudice is showing again, and it's becoming tiresome.
That child with a crossbow, will have a real skill, when he can get within that 20 yards of a live deer with his bench rest, until then...it's just practice.

killroy, when I was younger: I have witnesses watch me sneak up on a spike buck in a cut cornfield in the snow with just a bowie knife and I killed that buck,my father said I was crazy to try such a stunt but I did . am I the best hunter?, know but you try it and see if you can do it ? I also killed a deer with a arrow I made with a shaped and sharpened spoon too. also won the state freestyle class once. does that make me the man nope just shot well those days. > my family will learn the true bowhunter way by drawn a bow 1st . when a person feels he`s old or crippled ya go ahead and use a x-bow , but this old lineman ain`t say`n uncle yet !

Since you can't be bothered to get my name right, we're done talking.

I killed a deer with a fuggin rock. I don't tell that story to many because they just think I'm a liar. My dad however witnessed the act and likes to bring the story to light often at family get togethers. I also killed one with a smith and wesson model 34 .22LR kit gun. One with an old 45 lb Bear fiberglass recurve bow and cedar arrow. One with a load of #6 shot from a 12gauge shotgun. Several with various .22 rimfire rifles and 2 with a 5mm Remington magnum rimfire. I haven't killed one with my crossbow yet but only because I haven't hunted with it. Given that I can repeatedly put arrows in a 1" bullseye from 40 yards with it, I don't think it will be terribly difficult once I get around to it.

cool, I don`t like to tell any of those type of stories anymore you know why. but 22 mag was our kill gun

Come on Killroy, lighten up!!

old Killroy is just mad cause you out did him with a rock !

You've got me confused with somepone else. I never used a rock, but I did kill a few with only a pocket comb and rubber band.

> your right it was Blackheart, sorry

One thing is for sure, when it comes to allowing crossbows during the archery season.... No where does the the puzzie hurt develope as quick, or run as deep, as it does with a lot of folks from Wisconsin...

laffin

I thought that was my imagination.

The problem with that is those folks are never team players. Non team players can KMA. They are of no help to the sportsman or the future of it.

yes the x-bow is a harvest tool , it just does not belong in the long season for archery. x-bows are much easier to hunt with for anyone that`s why the handi-cap or old hunters uses a x-bow and yes the handi -cap and the old should get the whole entire bow season with a x-bow. But a healthy hunter should stop making excuses , being lazy and learn to shoot a drawn bow like a true bowhunter does,its a true pride thing in archery period.So man up and learn to use a drawn bow if your healthy, at my age of 65 years young both shoulders rebuilt,4 back surgeries,1 neck surgery, heart surgery and a lineman climbing poles for 35 years ,next fall I will be all healed up again and I will be drawn my Barnsdale Addiction bow again for archery season !

Again, the butt hurt is strong !

Go give Klueless a handy.

I got into archery hunting 28 years ago when a friend from high school introduced me to it. I think my dad felt left out and due to arthritis in both shoulders he could no longer shoot his recurve (I guess he bow hunted a little before I was born), so he bought a crossbow. That was 26 years ago. While he didn't live but for 2 more years, I truly enjoyed our time hunting and shooting together. I have never looked down on those that hunt with a crossbow, as I just see it as another hunter in the ranks.

Yep.

Just imagine if deer seasons were 3 months long, in every state, and you could hunt them with whatever tool you wanted to use without the [bleep] and their "special" seasons.....

You've obviously never encountered SOME of the bowhunting lobby in Iowa....

, Montana lobbied hard too against x-bows even for the handi -cap , the law is no x-bows for anyone in Montana.which I feel is wrong: the old and handi-cap should be allowed to use a x-bow. but in Montana on private land ranchers and friends are allowed to use rifles starting August 15th to shoot cows and calf elk from their trucks and allowed 3 elk a-piece during the foolish shoulder season, while some handi-cap or old person on public land has to use a drawn bow and walk that time of year during the archery season,which is at the same time as the shoulder season. > now where is the sense in that ?

What's peculiar to me is with the continual decline of hunters/hunting, we have so many folks butt-hurt about who's using what as a weapon of choice (and when).
I'd urge those with puckered sphincter to take a step back and see the bigger picture.

pete53, there hasn't been your kind of machismo around here since the departure of safariman - *golf clap*.

I have nothing against any archery gear. Recurve, compound or crossbow. I don't care if you throw a spear at them. I do care about the preferential treatment given to them. Here in Pa the GC loves the sticks. Reason being they are quiet. Some of the users of them like them for the same reason. One guy says the reason he hunts with sticks here in Pa is because he can hunt on Sunday. Quiet has everything to do with it and legality nothing.

[quote=SKane]What's peculiar to me is with the continual decline of hunters/hunting, we have so many folks butt-hurt about who's using what as a weapon of choice (and when).
I'd urge those with puckered sphincter to take a step back and see the bigger picture.

pete53, there hasn't been your kind of machismo around here since the departure of safariman - *golfclap

maybe some of you people need to stand up and be a man , its know wonder why many youth,young adults don`t hunt anymore ? man up take a stand ! all tools used for hunting should be allowed within reason. here`s another newer rule/law in Montana by the fed dam core people, in this one large area by a fed dam its muzzle loader only and that's ok but the fed dam people made these these restrictions round balls only- no inline muzzle loaders but all shotguns with slugs are legal . now WTF sense is that ? so ya x-bows are not at all legal in Montana even for the sick,weak ,old or disabled in the state and federal land but on private Montana land at the same time next to the state and fed land go ahead and use a rifle shoot up to 3 cows or calf elk sneak up to them with your truck ,cheap licenses and Montana says that's hunting ? WTF ? and the youth feels ya I guess that's hunting. RMEF shows some of those pictures in the magazines of the shoulder slaughter hunt and even on 24 hr campfire some brag about and show pictures of there shoulder slaughter elk hunt with their flatbed truck. WTF is wrong with Montana Fish , Game and Parks ? that is not hunting ! what are we as hunters teaching our youth ,do we want these young hunters to learn to hunt from a truck flat bed, have no ideal of a tent camp back in the mountains . very very sad

It may also be about the money, in some states anyway, and related to that, how many recreation hours they work in while achieving the population goals they've set. Different states work it different ways. I have a lifetime senior license that lets me take a rifle buck, either sex deer with bow and ML, a bear, a boar, and also hunt during special days for the youngsters and geezers. Extra tags for rifle, bow, or ML are $21, plus tags for rifle does are $10. I bought a bunch so I could hunt anytime I felt like it, so spent a bundle. In Next door VA, one license lets you take up 6 deer with a rifle, but bow and ML tags cost extra. Deer taken with any of those methods go against your total, it matters not which. For another fee, you can shoot 6 more does. The money comes in, the deer get harvested.

Haven't done PA in years, so I've lost track of how things work up there. I do remember that the last five years or so, it was next to impossible for a NR to get a doe tag in Adams county.

Yeah, that's it. The world you so fondly recall no longer exists in that form but you keep beating that drum.
If you ever stop to observe the vastness of today's world, your narrowmindedness and machismo might wither a bit.

What are fed dam core people?

WELL SAID PAT!

fed dam core people = federal dams areas are ruled by federal employees that manage in the federal dam areas many people just call them fed core people

have you ever hunted in Montana with a bow ? or even a rifle ? >>>> Clint Eastwood said this : some people just need to be hit in the head with a shovel ,so please don`t duck if it happens

About half of the threads in which you're a participant, someone calls you a dumbss. Newsflash - it MIGHT be you and not the rest of the tribe.

And, yes, I've hunted in Montana - and will do so again. And, as a non-resident guest, I'll do so by Montana's rules and not beotch one iota about how Montana conducts its business/management.
Now, please, provincial pete - back to your incessant drivel about how tough you are, how no one has worked in extremes like you did, how hardcore one has to be to hunt in northern MN or just how [bleep] awesome you are in general.

Many people?

Weird, I live 20 miles from Ft Peck dam, have a lot of friends who work out there, and I've never heard them called that.

But do continue on....and share some more of your "Rambo" stories of super human feats, killing wild animals with primitive weapons...the gallery is in awe.

Hang a pic or two of those monster bulls you've arrowed out here while you're at it. We're all dying to see them.

I think he might be talking about Corps of Engineers people.

yep that's what local residents call them that live there ,some say cor people that work at the dam.

no Rambo here,pictures nope you aint see`n nothin and if you don`t believe me that`s even better. no we never ever get anything you locals are the real stars in the hunting world out there you feel . and believe ?

I think he might be talking out his ass.

Anytime you're ready for the Pepsi Challenge, let me know...….

That was funny.

Crickets.

Well, the guy must be smarter than he seems.

Dang

How do I sign up for this Pepsi Challenge?? Is it by invitation only?

I bought one last year too. Just haven't invested the time to practice with my recurve to be able to hunt with it.