So apart from a suppressor for external noise, something that makes good sense, how do you stop hearing damage to the cochlear from the vibration on firing that travels through the stock (something apparently exaggerated with fiberglass stocks) and which travels through the cheek/jaw into the cochlear? Good earplugs, muffs, and a suppressor can't change that damage...
Thoughts?
“Perfection is Achieved Not When There Is Nothing More to Add, But When There Is Nothing Left to Take Away” Antoine de Saint-Exupery
Just because your ears don't ring or hurt doesn't mean your hearing isn't being damaged.
Yes, OSHA has decided that 140db impulse is the upper limit....140db or above result in instant nerve damage......that does not mean anything below that is "hearing safe" because hearing damage is cumulative.
Maximum Recommended Noise Dose Exposure Levels
Noise Level (dBA) Maximum Exposure Time per 24 Hours 85 8 hours 88 4 hours 91 2 hours 94 1 hour 97 30 minutes 100 15 minutes 103 7.5 minutes 106 3.7 minutes 109 112 seconds 112 56 seconds 115 28 seconds 118 14 seconds 121 7 seconds 124 3 seconds 127 1 second 130–140 less than 1 second 140 NO EXPOSURE
Go look at silencer/suppressor test results and you will find that almost all suppressed centerfire rifle/pistol is still over 130db.
I'm not trying to tell anyone what to do, I've shot lots of suppressed stuff, a lot of it full auto...... just passing along some info, do with it what you will.
So apart from a suppressor for external noise, something that makes good sense, how do you stop hearing damage to the cochlear from the vibration on firing that travels through the stock (something apparently exaggerated with fiberglass stocks) and which travels through the cheek/jaw into the cochlear? Good earplugs, muffs, and a suppressor can't change that damage...
Thoughts?
The answer there is to stop shooting guns. Or just not worry about it, because there's no simple solution, at least that I know of!
Just because your ears don't ring or hurt doesn't mean your hearing isn't being damaged.
Yes, OSHA has decided that 140db impulse is the upper limit....140db or above result in instant nerve damage......that does not mean anything below that is "hearing safe" because hearing damage is cumulative.
Maximum Recommended Noise Dose Exposure Levels
Noise Level (dBA) Maximum Exposure Time per 24 Hours 85 8 hours 88 4 hours 91 2 hours 94 1 hour 97 30 minutes 100 15 minutes 103 7.5 minutes 106 3.7 minutes 109 112 seconds 112 56 seconds 115 28 seconds 118 14 seconds 121 7 seconds 124 3 seconds 127 1 second 130–140 less than 1 second 140 NO EXPOSURE
Go look at silencer/suppressor test results and you will find that almost all suppressed centerfire rifle/pistol is still over 130db.
I'm not trying to tell anyone what to do, I've shot lots of suppressed stuff, a lot of it full auto...... just passing along some info, do with it what you will.
That's just what I was saying in my previous post. You're going to have to do a lot of shooting in one day to come anywhere near one second of exposure. My understanding is there are other factors involved, such as the proximity of the shot, and as Brad mentioned, the potential for cochlear damage. But overall, the majority of suppressed rifles are hearing safe. And by hearing safe I mean falling within OSHA safety standards. Does that mean that damage will still occur? Probably. But it will be at a greatly reduced rate compared to no suppressor, and really the only safe method if a person doesn't want any hearing loss is to wear hearing protection 24/7, stay inside the house, and for God's sake get those kids to turn down that rock and roll music.
As to the standards, I'm no audiologist so I can't comment on where they set the levels and what that means for long term hearing loss, but as with most government standards, there's some acceptable level of risk, based on the best available science to prevent health problems. Just like there's an acceptable level of mercury in drinking water, per government standard.
A few weeks ago, I was at the range and there was a gentleman shooting a 6.5 Creedmore with a SilencerCo Omega......I don't know what the sound was like at his ears, but, 2-3 benches down, it was loud enough that hearing protection was necessary.
It may have been 10bd lower at his ears in the open, but we were sitting under a roof that was definitely bouncing the sound back down to the shooter and everyone else on the line.
I don't have anything against suppressors, I'm all for their use.......in a hunting situation, I doubt you would have any hearing damage......but sitting at a bench and firing 100 rounds without hearing protection is very likely to damage your hearing.
A few weeks ago, I was at the range and there was a gentleman shooting a 6.5 Creedmore with a SilencerCo Omega......I don't know what the sound was like at his ears, but, 2-3 benches down, it was loud enough that hearing protection was necessary.
It may have been 10bd lower at his ears in the open, but we were sitting under a roof that was definitely bouncing the sound back down to the shooter and everyone else on the line.
I don't have anything against suppressors, I'm all for their use.......in a hunting situation, I doubt you would have any hearing damage......but sitting at a bench and firing 100 rounds without hearing protection is very likely to damage your hearing.
A) When I am shooting, I really dont care how loud it is to someone else. I have never needed earpro while shooting a suppressed rifle, in the open or under a roof.
2) Who the hell sits and shoots a hundred rounds from the bench?
1. How do you know you don't need "earpro" when shooting suppressed?? Just because your ears don't ring or hurt doesn't mean you aren't causing damage. I have fired lots of unsuppressed centerfire rounds, while hunting, without a suppressor OR ear protection without "hearing" the shot......it's called auditory exclusion.....my ears don't ring or hurt but that does not mean it's not damaging my hearing.
2. Apparently, jackmountain does......
Originally Posted by jackmountain
I just got done shooting 50 rds of 7-08 and 50 rds of .308 suppressed with no ear protection. That was the whole point in investing in a couple cans. It's not quiet but the noise is away from you.
Again, I'm not trying to tell anyone what to do......
So apart from a suppressor for external noise, something that makes good sense, how do you stop hearing damage to the cochlear from the vibration on firing that travels through the stock (something apparently exaggerated with fiberglass stocks) and which travels through the cheek/jaw into the cochlear? Good earplugs, muffs, and a suppressor can't change that damage...
Thoughts?
The answer there is to stop shooting guns. Or just not worry about it, because there's no simple solution, at least that I know of!
I suppose given that, I really don't understand the current obsession with suppressors, unless cutting down on noise for the neighbors is the goal (which is the reason for their use in Britain). A worthy goal, but one that is meaningless for me in my area of Montana.
Seems to me, being properly muffed is good enough for muzzle blast, given that blast vibration is apparently an unconquerable culprit.
One good friend, who shoots A LOT and is right handed, has the bulk of his hearing loss in his right ear, not left. Of course, if hearing damage were from muzzle blast, the left ear would have been the most affected. The answer is cochlear damage in the right ear from blast vibration through the stock into the jaw and cheek...
“Perfection is Achieved Not When There Is Nothing More to Add, But When There Is Nothing Left to Take Away” Antoine de Saint-Exupery
1. How do you know you don't need "earpro" when shooting suppressed?? Just because your ears don't ring or hurt doesn't mean you aren't causing damage. I have fired lots of unsuppressed centerfire rounds, while hunting, without a suppressor OR ear protection without "hearing" the shot......it's called auditory exclusion.....my ears don't ring or hurt but that does not mean it's not damaging my hearing.
2. Apparently, jackmountain does......
Originally Posted by jackmountain
I just got done shooting 50 rds of 7-08 and 50 rds of .308 suppressed with no ear protection. That was the whole point in investing in a couple cans. It's not quiet but the noise is away from you.
Again, I'm not trying to tell anyone what to do......
There are a lot of days where I will shoot 100 or more rounds from a suppressed centerfire...but never is it from a bench.
And auditory exclusion while hunting and a hearing safe suppressor are apples and potatoes...but carry on.
From the You Tube link that John Burns put up, it sounded like sound levels in the low 120 db range from that .308 were the norm. I took the db meter from work one weekend and got that same 120 kind of reading from my 6" barrel S&W k22 using high speed ammo. Back in those days I had a Husqvarna 360 CR that idled at 122 db and it was darned loud.
My other auto is a .45
The bitterness of poor quality is remembered long after the sweetness of low price has faded from memory
I suppose given that, I really don't understand the current obsession with suppressors, unless cutting down on noise for the neighbors is the goal (which is the reason for their use in Britain). A worthy goal, but one that is meaningless for me in my area of Montana.
Seems to me, being properly muffed is good enough for muzzle blast, given that blast vibration is apparently an unconquerable culprit.
One good friend, who shoots A LOT and is right handed, has the bulk of his hearing loss in his right ear, not left. Of course, if hearing damage were from muzzle blast, the left ear would have been the most affected. The answer is cochlear damage in the right ear from blast vibration through the stock into the jaw and cheek...
One aspect of hunting with a silencer is the animals spook less from the shot.
I used to chuckle if I saw someone in the field with a suppressor but the advantage is real.
Much easier to fill the cow tags in one fell swoop and lung shot deer don't run as far on an average.
John Burns
I have all the sources. They can't stop the signal.
So apart from a suppressor for external noise, something that makes good sense, how do you stop hearing damage to the cochlear from the vibration on firing that travels through the stock (something apparently exaggerated with fiberglass stocks) and which travels through the cheek/jaw into the cochlear? Good earplugs, muffs, and a suppressor can't change that damage...
Thoughts?
The answer there is to stop shooting guns. Or just not worry about it, because there's no simple solution, at least that I know of!
I suppose given that, I really don't understand the current obsession with suppressors, unless cutting down on noise for the neighbors is the goal (which is the reason for their use in Britain). A worthy goal, but one that is meaningless for me in my area of Montana.
Seems to me, being properly muffed is good enough for muzzle blast, given that blast vibration is apparently an unconquerable culprit.
One good friend, who shoots A LOT and is right handed, has the bulk of his hearing loss in his right ear, not left. Of course, if hearing damage were from muzzle blast, the left ear would have been the most affected. The answer is cochlear damage in the right ear from blast vibration through the stock into the jaw and cheek...
You should probably remove the muffler from your car too, and just wear hearing protection when you drive it.
And auditory exclusion while hunting and a hearing safe suppressor are apples and potatoes...but carry on.
You missed the point.....you wrote "I have never needed earpro while shooting a suppressed rifle, in the open or under a roof."......the point is, just because your ears don't ring or hurt does NOT mean you aren't causing damage.....I've shot centerfire rifles while hunting and my ears didn't ring or hurt......I didn't even hear the shots, but I guarantee I was damaging my hearing......you say you have never needed earpro.....how do you know you aren't damaging your hearing......fact is, you can't.
Again, I'm not saying suppressors don't help protect your hearing, but people need to understand that a suppressor does not guarantee you will not damage your hearing.
And auditory exclusion while hunting and a hearing safe suppressor are apples and potatoes...but carry on.
You missed the point.....you wrote "I have never needed earpro while shooting a suppressed rifle, in the open or under a roof."......the point is, just because your ears don't ring or hurt does NOT mean you aren't causing damage.....I've shot centerfire rifles while hunting and my ears didn't ring or hurt......I didn't even hear the shots, but I guarantee I was damaging my hearing......you say you have never needed earpro.....how do you know you aren't damaging your hearing......fact is, you can't.
Again, I'm not saying suppressors don't help protect your hearing, but people need to understand that a suppressor does not guarantee you will not damage your hearing.
