Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters Why does the 220 grain .30-06 load still exist?

I have a few boxes of Winchester silvertip 220 grain 30-06 ammo that I picked up cheap several years ago. I have never used them for any serious hunting. But was considering using them for moose, bear or elk at typical bush ranges, well under 200 yds. My usual load of 180 grain Nosler Partition or a 180 Speer Grand Slam has always worked well, and given deep penetration. My only experience actually shooting game with 220 gr bullets was in Germany, where I used some Hornady ammo on a couple of tiny roe deer and a very small wild boar. Hardly a test of the bullets capabilities. Likewise back home I have only accompanied one hunter who used the 220 gr,, in that case a Federal factory load. He shot a running mule deer fawn at about 300 yards. One shot placed in the shoulder crease and down it went. Again, a pretty odd application for that sort of bullet. I'm wondering whether to just burn those 220 silvertip loads up on offhand target practise or actually hunt with them.
So my question - when hunting game bigger than deer, is there anything that the traditional 220 gr cup and core 30-06 load does that a lighter controlled expansion 180 gr. does not do?

Not a gun writer, but about the only good application I have ever used them for is to give someone scope eye. Save them for sight in day at the local range, give them to the a-hole that wants to handle his o6 when every one is down range.

I've used the 220 Hornady RN in a 30-40, 30-06 and a 300 H&H. Took a few whitetail and mule deer does with it. Performance was good. Decent expansion, based on the wound evidence and not a lot of meat damage. The deer all died. I load the 220 grain Partition in my 300 H&H and loaned it to a friend to take his caribou. His guns were stolen the day before we left on our hunt so I loaned him my 300 to use. The caribou died quickly.

Those who get drawn for bison in Alaska are required to comply with some bullet weight and energy requirements. This is from the regs:

Rifle/handgun: must fire a 200 grain or larger bullet, which retains at least 2000 foot-pounds of energy at 100 yards. A .30-06 with a 220 grain bullet is about the minimal weapon that meets this specification.

I like heavy for caliber bullets.

Talking about heavy bullets is a subject on its own. The fast and dirty story is that firearms of yesteryear used larger projectiles. Over the years, driven primarily by military advancements, bullets have gotten smaller.

Black powder was eclipsed by smokeless powder,which meant that bullets could be driven faster and farther. To reach out and hit something hundreds or thousands of yards way required higher pressures, and subsequently, higher velocities. Lead bullets couldn't take the stress and were wrapped in jackets. Gun metals and cartridge alloys had to be developed to take the higher pressures. Powders, bullet design and primers have advanced too. These changes affected what successive generations used on the battlefield and hunting.

The short of it is that 220 grain and other "heavies" were among the first generation of jacketed bullets. The bullets were heavier than what we see today, but were they truly heavies? Earlier generations used heavy lead bullets. A 220 grain bullet in a 30-40 or a 30-03 would have been thought of as a lightweight when thirty yrs or so earlier 450 gr. 50/70 or 405 gr. 45-70 bullets were the standard.

Is there a use for them today? Sure. It depends where on the planet you hunt, and the species of game that your pursue. I have taken moose with 215 gr. 303 British handloads and 400 gr. lead bullets shot from my 45-70.

Should we get rid of 220s and use lighter weight bullets instead? No. Chat with a BP cartridge shooter or someone who uses a muzzleloader. Choices are great and variety makes the world a fascinating place. I cannot imagine a world where the only rifle that exists is a 6.5 Creedmoor.

I worked up loads using 220 grain Hornady bullets for my 30-303. They do a great job on moose where I hunt. Thank goodness for diversity.

I like heavy bullets, hardly ever met one I didn't care for.

Smokeless powder is a passing fad.

A crafty fella can put a jacket on a lead bullet. With paper. If you feel the need for speed one can knock on the 3,000 fps door with such things.

I admit that J-bullets are less time consuming and likely of better construction these days. Lead is more fun.

.44 Mag bullet, 320 grains, 30:1 alloy. Splat

Top 'mushroom' 450grn, bottom 500............. 45-70 paper patched

Big bullets are good.........

In the history of shooting big animals, it's likely that the biggest were taken with bullets that, by todays standards, were large and pedestrian..............

I killed a Moose with a 220 Core-Lokt out of a Husqvarna 30-06. The results were impressive but no more so than a 180 Partition.

The 220 out of a 30-06 out performs 225's out of a 338-06 or 250's out of a 35 Whelen.



WD Bell was probably the most prolific killer of big animals ever, he took over 1000 elephant. The vast majority with a 7X57. The rest with various rifles 30 caliber and smaller.

its balanced and opens up well....

I use to use it on MN whitetails with great success...

Round noses open up well and that heavy of a bullet has high sectional density and is therefore a great penetrating bullet...

Last big midwest buck I shot with one, was in Wisconsin...at 225 yds across a small swampy " mudhole' Pond.

Had to walk around the pond to look for it...it dropped where it was walking when hit.

there was only a dime sized entry wound and a dime sized exit wound...

gutting it, it looked like the lungs had been stirred with a chain saw....

This has been my experience with 220 factory loads as well Federal and Core lokts. If you think about it, considering you can buy 100 Hor/Sierra 220 gr bullets for the less than the price of 50 180 gr Partitions, that's not bad performance for the cost. A poor man's partition.

What would Elmer do...

Can some one please show their two side by side 10 shot groups so I can decide the validity of this 220 grain bullets worth.............

Pondoro Taylor says Bell lost a bunch too.

Because it works? A PH I know uses that load. A friend borrowed his rifle one day and took a shot at a Sable and hit a tree instead. Bullets went through the tree and still killed the sable.

-laffin'-

This is a very good post.....it hits a fairly accurate history of the development of todays bullets.

While there is nothing wrong with the 220 grain round nose (at least in my opinion) it has been eclipsed by such bullets as Nosler's partition, Swift's A-Frame, Northforks Barnes TTSX and a long host of other bonded bullets of 180 Grain. The lighter bullets can be driven faster and provide better trajectories and then deliver excellent terminal performance. The lighter bullet's sole advantage is, therefore, range. .....and somewhat lighter recoil.

Of the evidence I've seen, the round nose bullets provide very good terminal performance without the need for bonding and this makes them a tad less expensive.

Personally, I have no use for a .30-06 loaded with 220 grain bullets as I hunt places where longer shots are the norm and increasingly lead free bullets are required by land owners where I hunt.

How so?

If I'm following, you'd rather a 220gr Silvertip in a 30/06 facing a 10 foot brown bear or shooting up the ass of a moose over say a 250gr Partition in a Whelen or a 225gr X in a 338/06? Is that the sheit you're slinging?

Not factory.But I have been using 220gr RN for elk in my .06 for many years and will continue to do so,Don't plan to change just because some yahoo on the fire says you shouldn't.They are great for in the thick timber at slow speeds and will not ruin a lot of meat like 165's or so will. When I hunt out in more open countryI use 180 gr partitions or even (SHUDDER) 180ngr Game kings

Bear

You pick if the cover might not let you see the bear until they are 50 yards out... 220 grain, or something smaller.

Because it will knock the daylight out of something close.

Somebody's buying 220s, or they'd quit making them. For better or worse, wise or foolish, what we do is mostly for fun and to satisfy the need to gratify our notions. I tend to run my .30/06s, when I have them, like .308s, but if someone wants to rattle their chops at the range or slay critters large or small with pencil-length .30s, it's fine with me. No one mentioned 220gr solids, which might still have some utility in certain circumstances for some people. I'm not sure (and am too lazy to look) if those are still available. A 220gr X-bullet designed to expand a bit and then keep going might be handy for the one-gun character in some places. Mr. Phil might have a use for such a thing, and I hope he weighs in here as the resident '06 expert anyway.

Just for fun, I looked up the 220gr ELD-X bullet in the .30/06 data ftom the new Hornady manual. Started at 2550 with Superformance, with a .650 BC, it's still going over 1400fps at 1000, with over 1000 pounds of energy. Most of those may end up being fired subsonic out of Blackouts I suspect.

Answer....it’s effective! Would it be my first choice....”No”! But, for those that still prefer cup and core, it’s still effective .....as it always has been. memtb

Not sure which writer possibly Jack OConner said one of the ammo reps noticed brisk sales of the 220 grain load in Wisconsin. It turned out that there was a season where you could shoot carp with a rifle and the 220 worked the best to stun them.

Before the availability of so many great bullets African PH's would recommend the 220 grain load in the 06 and 300 H&H as an all around plains game choice up to and including Buffalo. Should still work today.

Lot of people here in PA use the 06, like the PA rem 760/7600 meatmaster.
bact in the late 70s, early 80s, 220 rem corelokts were pretty common on the shelves and people used them.
Of course 100 yd shot was a long one.

From a premium bullet stance, they look cool as hell and are fun, 220gr partitions and even 240gr woodleighs provided many hours of entertainment for me in an old Ruger Express Rifle, I should have kept that damn thing, but, like you, I never hit anything big, just a few deer with the express barrel sights.

I remember seeing a post online of someone loading 220s in the 30-06 behind some R26 and getting 2600 fps. That'd be a pretty sporty moose load for the old '06. I'd like to try it when I can get a hold of some R26.

Lots of folks seem to like stuff like .35 Whelens, .338-06 and Federal, .358, .348 etc for thumping deer and black bears. Can't see much difference between those and the 220gr load, assuming decent expansion like Partitions are known for, even at moderate velocities. JB used 200s for a good bit, I believe; how much difference can 20gr make, except maybe in recoil?

Sorry, but I just can't see how another choice is a probem, or why anyone gives a red rat's rump what anyone else uses.

I don't think another choice is a problem, I wasn't complaining, I am curious. I like and use the .35 Whelen too.

Couple of interesting things regarding 220 gr. 30 caliber bullets.

1. There was an article by the late Finn Aagaard in IIRC either Rifle or Handloader magazine where he was using 220 gr. round nose bullets while culling Whitetail Deer. Results were deer quickly killed and meat damage mostly very minor. Deer were killed at various ranges as I recall but don't remember if any were at any kind of long range. Finn was reputed to be an excellent stalker of game.

2. A few years back I did some experimentation with the Sierra 220 gr. round nose bullet in the .308 Win. using Winchester brass, WLR primer and W760 powder. I got extremely fine accuracy and a velocity of 2310 FPD average with low extreme spread. (9 FPS)

3. At the same time I was running tests of the Winchester 180 gr. Power Points in three barrel lengths. (22", 24" and 26")
The only one that came even close to Winchester's advertised velocity of 2700 FPS was from the 26" barrel of my Ruger #1B. Also interesting was that load did 2600 FPS from a commercial FN Mauser with 22" barrel giving within 15 FPS of the 180 gr. Winchester Power Point load from a 22" barreled .308. I never could find any 30-06 220 gr. ammo here in Tucson at the time of the experiments which could have been interesting as well. Would they have delivered an honest 2400 FPS as advertised or would it been closer to what I got from the .308 handload.

It is also interesting to note the that W.D.M. "Karamojo" Bell once opined that the .308 with a 220 gr. solid at 2200 to 2300 FPS might be the perfect elephant gun. I'd add "for him".
Paul B.

30/03 1895s -

i'm going to be using 220gr out of my husky on my cow elk hunt

It's normal, but many people on this board and others think only about their hunting. They do not consider that the requirements of others living elsewhere in the US, or the world for that matter, may be different. For example, if you live in a place where long shots are the norm, you would forego using a 220 gr. RN bullet in favour of something that has more reach. Conversely, there are people who have never shot farther than 100 yd at medium/large game and a round nose cup and core is just fine.

Some folks hunt completely different animals with the same calibre. The 30-06 is a great example of that. There is precious little on the planet that the 30-06 is not capable of dropping. From groundhogs to grizzlies, the 30-06 is potent medicine. To even the odds, only the bullet needs to be changed. But that doesn't mean you have to use a copper bullet, a bonded core, or a Partition. You could use a heavy cup and core bullet. Or something frangible like a VMax. Choices are great.

There is also an age divide on some boards, with hunters under 45 or so thinking that Partitions or Barnes bullets are the only bullets that can get the job done. They are victims of marketing hype. But that's fine, it's their money. Choices are great.

All of us joke at one time or another about new hunters 'needing' a copper bullet to take that deer - even if it's only 50 to 100 yd away. They are convinced that premium bullets are the only option. But I think that they haven't learned what is required to drop their game of choice. Their mind is fixed, until they get more experience. But that's okay, choices are great.

I wonder why clunky old cartridges like the 30-30, 303 British or the 45-70 have managed to survive when there are so many other, supposedly better cartridges and bullets available?

We're all lucky to have choices!

I agree about the value of choices. The opportunity to choose is a huge benefit of the free market system.

I still carry them because of these varmints.

He's on the rib cage from the bull elk we'd killed the night before.

Kobuku68, I have heard the same thing about the 220 in the 3003. It prevents or lowers the risk of damage using the shorter brass.

I also have a friend that says it was the projectile of choice 4 the 30/40 Krag?

I guess the 30 cal 250 Grainers never caught on? Not much load info on them.

Well, I felt the need to add my 2 cts worth here. One of the best things about a 30-06 is the ability to shoot ammo from 110 grs to 220 grs from the factory and with handloads an even wider range. I am not sure WW loads the 220 Silvertips anymore, if I lived closer to you I'd buy them just to experience the use of them. So for what it's worth zero your 06 with them and go forth and get that elk, moose or bears that you can hunt that the rest of us can't. And just because your buddy used them to shoot running fawns at 300 yds doesn't mean you need to be a stunt shooter too. Use them on the big stuff and tell us how they really work I'll bet you will be pleasantly surprised. The few guys I've read here that have used them do not condemn them at all. Last year I loaded some 180 & 220 grain Hornady RN's just to try them and experience them ( finding out for myself) I haven't shot anything with them yet, but they do shoot really well in my receiver sighted Remington 03 sporter. Color me optimistic about it, because I am. Don't automatically write off things with out some REAL hands on. Magnum Bob

X2 Magnum Bob is 100% right that`s the great thing about a 30-06 all the different factory grain weights ,types of bullets in a factory manufactured cartridge name another cartridge that can offer this ?

All I shoot out of my Krags and they are deadly in my Win 1895 SRC.

The .30 US Army was simply made for the 220 RN.

Shooting 220gr. Core-lokts out of my HVA LW is extremely unpleasant.

My Husky's were the Lightweight versions too. And 220's were rather "sporty" out of them.

I guess these never caught on. Vintage Barnes 30 caliber 250grain.

Always wanted to try some of those 250 grain Barnes in a 30-06. Kind of puts it in of the same class as the 318 Westley Richards.

I use RN bullets in most of my mid day stalk hunting rifles. The theory is that a follow up shot may be necessary on a wounded deer running straight away. That is the theory, but I know that most any well built spire point will do just as well. I don't care....I just like RNs because 1) they work and 2) I am a nostalgic type guy!

That includes 175 gr RNs in the 7X57, 220s in my 30-40 and 30.06, 250 gr in my 9X57, and 286s in my 9.3X62. Soon I'll add 160 gr RNs in my 1903 M-S after I get through shooting all the 139 gr Norma factory rounds I got (for the brass).

Here is my newest stalking rifle. A 1917 Enfield with a Weaver 330 M8 and it is loaded with 220s.



So far, I have only finished off a wounded deer with it, but I did dispatch an armadillo. The 220 did a number on him. Note.....this picture is of the ENTRY hole from the 220....

I still load them and use them in 2 of my 30-06s and sometimes in my 300 H&H.

Bear and elk are the main targets but I have killed a few deer with them too. Those were killed when I had elk tags in my pack so I used what I had in my hands. Overall I have zero complaints. I like them.

I recovered only one in all my life. It was from an elk I killed in the Selway Wilderness in Idaho, but the bullet went through most of it's body lengthwise as it was going away from me. All other kills have left exits. I didn't weight that one I recovered, but I am going to guess it still had about 70% of it's weight.

So are they "better" then 180 and 200 grain bullets? there is no way for me to know for sure.

I always use pretty tough bullets in my 30-06s and my 300, so I usually get exits. If you have the same sized hole and it goes clear through I can't say that anything is "better" then anything else.

I only criticize bullets that don't give me exits or that veer off at odd angles when they hit fairly regularly. It's the hole that kills. 100% penetration is as good as you can get ---- and if you have that, the only thing one round can do 'better" is to give greater cavitation. (Hole diameter)

In my 50 years of experience, if you want a larger diameter hole you should go to a larger diameter (and often heavier) bullet. I have owned some VERY fast over-bore 300s and killed game with them, but I can't say any of them made bigger diameter holes then my 30-06s or my 300H&H in the elk. In fact if the bullets break up they don't do as well as a 30-06.

My father hunted his lifetime with a 30-06 and loved the 220s for elk. He shot everything from muskrats, owls and coyotes to elk and deer, cows and horses with his short Mauser. I saw some hella shots with it that defy modern rules. I checked the throat on that rifle last year and I don't think the 250 grain Barnes would reach the riflings. Though I don't know where it started. Family lore is that he bought it at monkey wards but it is a military Mauser with thumb cut, so?
I don't ever remember him shooting a fancy partition. It was old school heavy heavy for elk and I only remember green Sierra boxes in the reloading room besides the military fmj.
Makes my shoulder hurt just thinking about shooting it.

Try the 240 Woodleigh's they are buffalo approved. They expand so violently that they don't penetrate as much as the old Barnes but the BC is so high it is not an issue unless your using them on really big game. The Barnes original had an almost un-tapered jacket and sometimes were too tough. The thick jacketed version benefited from hollow pointing them for lighter game.

You guys remember Big Morty I presume? Dude on the right.



He always had good things to say about the -06 and the 220 grain Core Lokt for squill.

Cast a 250 grainer and call it a "decent close range coyote rifle"?

I've always worked up a good load with those 240 Woodleighs in the last 3 30-06s I've owned. Never got to kill anything with them, but I sure wanted to shoot a big hog. Big hogs are great "bullet testers" and much cheaper/available than big elk. Plus, a hog is pretty solid for its size, its a good medium!

Talk about sporty. When Gander Mountain first open in Texarkana my son bought a single shot Rossi there. He wanted to hunt hogs with it. We loaded a book max load with Hornady 220s. FIVE shots out of that rifle was all I could take at a time. Sporty indeed.

Was he an adult?

A max load with the 220 gr. Hornady will manage 2500 fps or a little better. With a light rifle like the Rossi, it would generate over 27 ft/lb of recoil. About the same as a middling 45-70 load with a 400 gr. bullet around 1600 fps. It gets your attention.

Not a “gun writer “ nor an expert of anything. However I’ve shot a black bear or two with a 30-06’ and 220 gr. RN. They shine in this application especially when you have some rather expensive bear hounds in tow. Not saying a 180 won’t work but a 220 sure as heck does without a doubt.

Steve
He was an adult.
He couldn't take more than 5 either.
10 shots got it zeroed to 2" @ 100 YDS.
We decided it was good enough for in the woods.
It would more than get your attention.

That’s like one of those old H&R single shot 12 Ga. 3 inch magnum shotguns. Punishment written all over it.

my husky has a muzzle break on it, i bought it that way it sure takes the sting out of those 220 and 180's it has a nasty bark on it with the light bullets

Can't say as I blame him. My 30-06 weighs a little over 8 lb. Recoil energy is about 23 ft-lb. It's about the most I care for if I am shooting a lot from the bench for an extended period.

Steve
I cant remember for sure how much it weighted
but it was less than 6 lbs. He never put a scope
on it. To say it was light is an understatement.
It was more of a mule than an H&R 12 gauge
with 3" magnums anyday. Oldest son learned he
wasnt any tougher than dad with that rifle.
Dad learned he wasnt tougher than oldest son with
that rifle also. It was reasonably accurate and I think
had enough oomph to get the job done.
Wasnt a fun rifle at all.

Those are a special kind of obnoxious when you shoot slugs out of them

I never knew he posted here. He was active on the old Marlin Talk site years back. Dude was hilarious. Always shooting "Squill" with "REMINGTON GREAN BOX". Plus hunting "annamules" and eating "HORSE MEET".

I have never hunted with any 220s. But I have burned up a couple hundred 30 cal 220 gr SMK, just dinking around. I did not have a chronograph then, 1980. So I do not know what kind of velocity I got with H4831.

I know the recoil was quite a bit softer when the case was stuffed with as much H870 as I could get in it, and I had to pour unburned powder out of the action and barrel.

For any serious use, I much prefer the Hornady 190 btsp which is not difficult to push to 2800 fps in the 30-06.

I borrowed a Remington 700 Ti from a mate one day, with a box of 220gn CoreLokt factory rounds. Three rounds to check zero and a dead pig -big ones too - with each round from the rest of the box. I found them quite effective, and the first three went into a very small triangle from 100 yards over the bonnet. I don't know as they were any more effective than the 150 grainers I normally use on pigs though.

I didn't find the recoil particularly noticeable, despite the light rifle. I might've noticed it if I'd been sitting down at a benchrest, but even dropping pigs in rapid succession the recoil simply wasn't an issue. I quite liked that little rifle.

The bloke who owned the rifle found that neither these nor the hand-loaded 240 gn Woodleigh were really up to the mark for water buffalo on this trip, FWIW. I wasn't there to see the ones he shot with them, but he's a good shot. I know others who've used the .30/06 on buffalo to good effect, but all those I've killed or seen killed were with something a bit bigger.

Since you have more than one box I'd measure the length with your Sinclair hex gage and then shoot a ten shot group over a chronograph to learn what you can from them. It'd be nice to know, but not worth spending the money on to find out. You already have them so go for it.

Derailed in 4 posts. That may be a record.

Send me the bullets and I'd be happy to. Otherwise I'm not curious enough to do it.

I think they were once popular especially when someone wanted to do a one gun hunt in Africa with the 06 or an 03 like Teddy. This was before caliber restrictions and the more available/affordable medium bores. These and the 180 .270s were used by Hosea Sarbor one of the first game control officers in Alaska. He used them for many bears, walrus and even a few whales. For seals he liked the 220 swift. One Bear he shot with the 270 was still guarding the remains of it's human kill. This takes a pair of brass ones and a good copper jacketed bullet.

This reminds me of when I was a kid I wrote to, is it Fred or Frank Barnes? Asking about his heavy weight bullets and: A. Would they fit in the magazine? and B. Would they stabilize with a standard twist? His reply was an envelope stuffed with his heaviest bullets in each of the calibers I had asked about. What a nice response for a kid. And yes they did work. This is part of the reason I am still loyal to Barnes Bullets even though it is a whole new ball game now.

That there is funny, and would be a great gift for any a-hole.

Back when I came to Alaska in the mid 60's I killed my first moose with my old Springfield 03A3 and a factory 220 grain Silvertip. The range was about 250 to 300 yards and the bullet entered the lungs and did not exit. I think the moose went about 20 yards and laid down. Others carried 220 grain Core-Lokts and a fortunate hand loader had 220 grain Partitions. I was well armed with that old Springfield and 5 of those big 220 grain slugs in the magazine.

I may be using 168 grain TTSX bullets in the 30-06 now. But I don't see them killing much of any thing those old 220's can't kill. But, I have only killed 3 animals past 300 yards.

He's normally slinging some kind of it.

The data produced by Gary Shucetti(SP) proved the 180gr RN Remington core-loct produced expansion at a lower velocity and weight retention at higher velocity range than any other available (at the time) .308 180 gr projectile. Best in penetration and weight retention and pretty good value.

Well said!

On my one and only trip tp Africa, I was the last hunter of the season. The last three days of my hunt several of the PHs were in camp. I probably annoyed them by asking a lot of questions. Almost to a person, they lamented the fact that the 318WR was no longer available. This was 1978. They also wished that most hunters would not buy a 300WM, and use the 30-06 that they used at home. the bullets they would choose; 200 or220 C&C if it had to be a 180, a partition. Of course that was only 5-6 PH's opinions, 40yrs ago. capt david

Thanks. I don't use premium bullets much anymore. I don't have a need. It's due, in part, because I look for deals. Bullets like the 220 grain Hornadys on usually on sale sometime throughout the year. They aren't as popular as Partitions or others, so low prices can be had. It pays to shop round. I also make my own jacketed and lead bullets.

ex. In 2013, I bought 500 - 220 gr. Hornadys for $24/100 (reg. $40/100). In US dollars, that was $18.50/100. They were 40% off. With the rotten US/CDN dollar exchange of the past few years (25 to 35 percent), 100 - 220 gr. Hornadys are over $50/100 up here right now. But it gets worse...

Noslers are ridiculously priced up here. 50 - 150, 165 or 180 gr. Partitions are about $60/50. Then you have to add 13% tax. BTs are $35/50. It's cheaper to buy Barnes TSX bullets - they are $4 or $5 dollars per 50 cheaper. Since I don't hunt anything but varmints past 200 yd these days, I forego the Partitions and the copper bullets for old fashioned cup and core or lead bullets. I don't need the Noslers or the Barnes. When I do, I have some on my bullet shelves.

Another big problem is that being in Canada, we don't have the variety that you folks do.

For people that have a requirement for the premiums, I say, go for it.

LMAO.

I suspect that once the current batch of olde guys are gone on, the now small batch of RN users will go with them.

I use 180gr RNs in a reciever sighted 760 30-06 and 175gr RNs in a Ruger #1A 275Rigby. They won't leave me undergunned in any hunting I will be doing in this part of the world.

Someone mentioned that heavy-for-caliber RNs are the poor man's Partition. This is spot on.

-lafffin'- Translate that to English for me.

So it was dark, real dark and was using one of those lousy Leupolds (VX3/30mm tube 3.5X10X50 ill German 4). Range was 52 yards facing. I was up about 20 feet shot between shoulders, severing spine and angling down destroying stuff inside. Recovered on offside ham (note to JB, I DID NOT use "rear ham"). Hornady 220gr RN Interlock. Recovered bullet weighed 159.2 gr. Pass or fail?

Well, no "over penetration" So I'd say that's about right.

I’d have kinda expected it to shoot through that small of a pig. Never know for sure.

I'd show you the 130gr TTSX from a much bigger hog, but the hog couldn't hold it. But you knew that.

I like 175 Hornady RN's in my 7x57. Only shot one animal with them though. A smallish piggy, hit her too far back. The thing that impressed me was, it looked like you had shot a coffee cup all the way through her. I've also rang a few gongs with them at times at further distances than my buddies thought I was supposed to be able to with a roundnose. Wish I could find another couple boxes, but will likely just go to the 175 interlock when I run out.

If I were hunting big stuff (elk or moose) inside 300 yards, I could feel a lot of love for a .30-06 with 220 RN's, but probably never will.......

^^^^^^^ That right there is THE reason any company makes anything. If the sales fall below production feasibility.........they stop. Period.

Advertisement money will be spent on "new and improved"......"state of the art".......and more often than not, more expensive products but not always. Sometimes it's just effort and money spent to get customers to by MORE of something else............literally anything else, in efforts to convince more people they "need" the new product.

(I didn't even mention a certain *ahem* "new and improved" cartridge either. I did good, huh?)

Profit........it's every company's reason to exist.

2 cents
God Bless

Exactly what I was thinking, start with a mono metal of 150 or 165 gr and that is what you would end with for retained weight, if they were caught.

Classic performance. The 220g is deemed passé by some in this era of velo is king. Can't argue with consistent permormance and penetration.

About 35 - 40 years ago, Western Auto in Hobbs, NM had two boxes of Hornady .308 dia., 220 grain, RN, solid bullets for sale for $2 a box. I bought them and have every intention of loading them up and hunting something with them one of these days.

Way back when the Alaska Dept. of Fish & Game did a penetration test with a bunch of bullets and calibers. That old ought six and 220 grain bullets was near the top of the list. I can't remember the bullet they used though.

I have a couple of 30-06 rifles and both have peep sights so when I pull the scope and take a walk 5 of those 220 grain Partitions are very comforting. I think Phil the bear guy likes them in that Todd Ramierz 30-06.

Why should they not exist? They're still useful in certain situations.

Many years ago I built a redneck 'scout' rifle out of a Chilean Mauser with a pistol scope out on the modified rear sight base. It was used primarily for our mid day walk drives on our lease. The load was a 175 gr Hornady RN loaded to original 1890s specs, about 2300 fps. That rifle and load went 7 for 7 on walking or running deer in the thick stuff....all one shot kills. The damage to the innards of the deer were spectacular. Blood spray out beyond the far side of the deer was impressive. About half of them did run a few yards, none far euf to require a tracking job, but the blood trail was sufficient that even this almost color blind guy could have followed it if needed.

We stopped doing those organized walk drives years ago as our membership aged and the newer guys proved not to be that interested in it. I let a young man have that mauser several years ago that seemed to be fascinated with it. That RN 7mm bullet really smacked them!

The title of this thread reminds me of going into Ketterings Sporting Goods in Annville PA as a teenager looking to buy a box of ammo for our PA bear season. I asked old Paul for a box of 220 grain aught sixes and he replied "220 GRAINS! WHAT DO YOU WANT THOSE FOR? I USED TO HAVE TWO BOXES ON THE SHELF AND I ENDED UP HAVING TO GIVE THEM AWAY!"

And yes he did shout. It was mildly embarrassing.

Pass.

The bullet did a great job. I would replace the Leupold though. Leupolds are old school. You need a lighter and sleeker scope, with a higher optical coefficient.

I use TTSXs almost exclusively so I know what they can do. As I alluded to in my OP, the hog was NOT broadside, but head on and below me. bullet went through the spine, traversed all the major organs and would up just under the skin of the offside ham, so that's about 3 1/2 feet of hog and bone. That is a lot of penetration even with about a 30% weight loss. A have quite a few of these and I'll continue to use for this hog application. For "serious" game my "go to" is the 168 TTSX.

I was referring to the scope. I amended my post for clarity.

I hope you have continued success with the Barnes bullets.

Glad to see I'm not the only one.

My favorite 30 caliber bullet....

Steve spoke of using them in a 300 H & H....I think the coolest round I've ever seen was 220 grain RN in a 300 H & H....just reaked of old school nostalgia....

Since I have a bad habit of thinking outside the box.....

I've handloaded them to function thru a 30/30.... yeah seated real deep, but they actually were the most accurate bullets ever shot out of that old Model 94 that was handed down to me... decades ago...

Using 748 powder, originally in the 1750 fps range....and oh they would still penetrate...

Friend had a 30/30 single shot H & R... and wanted to load the heaviest hardest hitting load he could to
kill a nuisance black bear he said was good sized at his cabin....seated the bullet out to the cannelure...
W 748 stout load, chronographed at 2100 fps....we were both quite surprised and yeah it kicked in the H &R..
but it dropped the nuisance bear....

did the same load in the old Model 94...and experimenting with 5 rounds of brass....loaded them 10 times with that same load of W 748.....primers were still tight...you noticed it when you pulled the trigger tho...
the Model 94 never seemed to mind the load either...

when I feel the need for the 300 Win Mag, my load has always been 80 grains of H 1000 and a 220 grain RN... yeah a little over book max, but that is a risk every handloader has the choice to make or not..
surprising flat shooting at that MV for a Round Nose...sure wacks steel with authority...

one would also be surprised at what an 06 will do with a handloaded 220 grain RN with H4831SC....
I'll just leave it as the Ballisticians over at Nosler told me that you can't get enough 4831 SC in an 06 to over pressurize the case above SAAMI specs...

and finally those old Barnes 250 grain RNs? I have a box or two of them that were given to me that I've never used... might as well consider giving them away to someone....they seem almost as long as a 308 case...

also got a box or two of them 6mm RNs somewhere...I think those were 115 grain....another long bullet for caliber...that I'll probably never load...

You know me bigger is always better !...Pass