Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Muzzleloaders Using a 45-70 for a smokelss muzzloader

Why wouldn't taking a 45-70 Encore barrel , put a primed case in it, put some smokeless powder down the front , take a 40 cal. bullet with a proper sabot and use it. I dont think anyone has tried that but dont see a reason it wouldn't work. Silly and dangerous though? No I'm not going to try it. I'm just wondering why it wouldn't work.

they convert these the proper way to be a smokeless muzzleloader.

Lou Cammelli (sic) out in Albuquerque did it for 3 old hunting buds of mine using Ruger #3’s back in about 1984. They even used 209 primers.

But he made a bushing that screwed into the threaded chamber to take the 209. Still utilized the original firing pin and breechblock.

Back in the day the loaded target rifles like that loaded case with a wad and then seated a lead bullet from the muzzle with a false muzzle and seat the bullet on the wad

And it worked right?

It wouldn't be a legal muzzleloader here. Other than that .. whatever floats your boat.

Tom

You might want to do a search on a fella named Harry Pope. The concept has been around for a very long time and is quite capable of excellent precision. It isn't quite as simple as the average bear might imagine when properly executed, involving false muzzles, paper patch and other odds and ends.

Wouldn't be legal in most states for hunting, but in the past a lot of target rifles were set up that way. If you want a legal muzzleloader off a .45-70, have the chamber threaded for a Savage smokeless breech plug.

Savage plugs are not used for this anymore. A newer style plug that seals at the rear has become more popular. The nose of a Savage plug can gas cut over time with the hotter loads. These conversions will shoot Blackhorn no problem if you wish. Hard to imagine though you would prefer using $40+/lb pounder and more of it to get less performance than some cheap H4198. About 55gr of 4198 will give you over 2300fps with a 275gr bullet and about 2500fps with sabot loads. Several other powders work but 4198 is the most popular.

http://www.arrowheadsporting.com/4570conv.html
Install ASG 209 Breech Plug system: $200 + S&H


https://www.hankinscustomrifles.com/rifles-pricing/
install a 209 breech plug into your barrel for a total cost of $200.00. This includes 1 breech plug with a Tungsten bushing and return shipping.

Ok Overkill, now we are getting somewhere. I contacted Arrowhead and he didn't mention this about my 45-70. A have one but now the problem is it is a 22" light Encore barrel. I imagine it will kick like a mule. I might go get a Bergera or something heavier, or just use the light Encore and use mild loads but I have not found any. I would be happy with 1,400 FPS with my 340 gr cast bullets. I just need something not so irratic , even on the bench. I am going muzzy hunting in a bit. I will not feel confident at a deer much past 40 yds and that is sad. Not exceptable . I will go hunting now on the last day of Muzzloader season here in Wisconsin .

As has been mentioned loading breech loaders from the muzzle was commonly done and especially during the 1870's and 80's. At the 1876 International Match at Creedmoor where the US took on the Irish a couple American shooters loaded theirs from the muzzle. The Irish were still using Rigby muzzleloaders. We won, barely, and only because one of the Irish shooters put a round on the wrong target.

Today...you can do it but also as other have mentioned, it wouldn't be legal in most states. The next question for me is why bother? There's so many cheap in-lines out there capable of deer killing accuracy the exercise seems moot.

I believe old Ned Roberts wrote about that in his iconic book. Didn’t he 45-90? Heck it’s been like 40 years since I read it. 👍

http://www.hodgdonreloading.com/data/rifle

.45-70 (trapdoor) .325 gr bullet

H335
.458"
2.590"
48.8
1,688
17,800 CUP

H4895
.458"
2.590"
41.8
1,327
13,700 CUP

IMR 8208 XBR
.458"
2.590"
48.5
1,618
18,400 CUP

IMR 3031
.458"
2.590"
46.3
1,491
16,600 CUP

H322
.458"
2.590"
36.5
1,401
17,100 CUP

I guess the reason I want to try is cause I'm just not happy with my two muzzleloaders and this could be a way to solve my problem.

No it would not be legal in Wisconsin, You would have to have it converted with a breach plug.
During the 10-day muzzleloader-only season (Nov. 26 – Dec. 5), muzzleloaders must have a solid threaded breech plug making them capable of being loaded only from the muzzle.

And if by cast you mean a conical then no to smokeless too. A 45cal 340gr in a 50cal sabot with 5744 is possible. No way i know of to do that in a 45cal. About 70gr of Blackhorn will get a 350gr conical out of a 45cal right in the 1350-1400fps range.