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#13338880 - 12/06/18 Re: "Cheap" binoculars [Re: gr8fuldoug]  
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Mule Deer Online content
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Doug,

Thanks! Haven't tried a Kowa for a while, but was impressed when I did.


John

"Gunwriters, as you know, aren't as informed as their readers are and if it wasn't for the readers, there would be no need for writers..."--Shrapnel, May 2015
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#13338889 - 12/06/18 Re: "Cheap" binoculars [Re: castnblast]  
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castnblast,

Yep, difference in eyesight can affect how we see through binoculars. Which is why I've always conducted many tests with a line-up of binoculars (or scopes) and several people, from their 20's on up, and those who've had their eyesight "corrected" with surgery.

I have written about this before, including the fact that even in humans whose eyes test 20/20 (or better) there are differences in binoculars (especially color transmission and pupil expansion) that can make a big difference in how individuals perceive the view through the same binocular.


John

"Gunwriters, as you know, aren't as informed as their readers are and if it wasn't for the readers, there would be no need for writers..."--Shrapnel, May 2015
#13338972 - 12/06/18 Re: "Cheap" binoculars [Re: Mule Deer]  
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castnblast Offline
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Mule Deer, thanks for your wisdom and experience. Your answer is just what i would expect and have always received from you. My only other comment is my hope that optics shoppers like I was, who have "sub-optimal" eyesight need not feel pressured to buy expensive optical equipment that they cannot take full advantage of, and top retailers like Camera Land recognize that fact and don't try to "up sell' to people who receive no benefit from spending more money. Another good reason for a wide range of consumer products. Try before you buy, don't just trust someone else's opinion.

#13339099 - 12/06/18 Re: "Cheap" binoculars [Re: Mule Deer]  
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meddybemps Online content
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The $80 6x30 Leupold Yosemites are an astonishing bargain. A pair of Nikon Monarchs in 8x42 for under $300 compare very favorably with my ornithologist niece's 8x42 Leicas. Optics have come a long way in the past 20 years.


You can fool all the people some of the time and some of the people all the time, but you cannot fool all the people all the time.
#13339112 - 12/06/18 Re: "Cheap" binoculars [Re: Mule Deer]  
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mark shubert Offline
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I am not limited nearly as much by price/quality, alpha, mid-range, or whatever - as I am by intra-ocular distance - most bino's go to 75 mm.
My wide-set eyeballs need ~ 77 mm, therefore I am VERY limited in availability. Minox has been the best I've found FOR ME.


I've always been a curmudgeon - now I'm an old curmudgeon.
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#13340131 - 12/07/18 Re: "Cheap" binoculars [Re: Mule Deer]  
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joe6555 Offline
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Mule Deer. About 15 years ago, I went into a "bird store" and looked thru the binoculars they had in stock. There was one that I looked thru that gave me that "WOW" we hear about. It was the Pentax you talked about in your first post. I have not looked thru any since that gave me the same view of things. My eyesight isn't great, which may have an effect on how I view things thru binoculars, but the majority I have looked thru seem very similar (really nice overall with nothing to complain about). I attribute this to a large extent to the fact that the great influx in new optics companies has caused the glass makers to create much better glass on the whole in recent years. Before, there were cheap binoculars and really good binoculars with not a lot of overlap. Since Zen Ray and so many others hit the market, there is a very fuzzy line separating good and very good optics and prices generally have lowered. A quality optic that would sell for $1000 if manufactured in Europe can sell for a fraction of that if made in China. And if quality control is held to a high level, the finished product can be of equal quality as well.

I wish that I could have afforded the Pentax back in the day as I still remember the feeling looking thru them, but there are so many really good binoculars today I am sure I can find another "wow" binocular and probably at a much lower price.

#13341386 - 12/07/18 Re: "Cheap" binoculars [Re: Mule Deer]  
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Prwlr Offline
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joe6555

Likewise about 20 years ago I was in a LGS and looking at some binoculars when I picked up a used Optolyth 8x32 porro. Looking out the back door I could see a brushy hill about 2 miles away. This was during the fall after most of the leaves were gone. Through all the previous binos the leafless bushes looked more like fuzzy blobs when I looked though those Optolyth they looked like individual limbs and twigs I was amazed, had I had $400 I would have bought them on the spot but alas it was not to be.


Ed

A person who asks a question is a fool for 5 minutes the person who never asks is a fool forever.
#13342656 - 12/08/18 Re: "Cheap" binoculars [Re: Mule Deer]  
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5thShock Offline
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These things are just delightful...

https://www.leupold.com/binoculars/bx-1-yosemite-6x30mm

Close up stuff is like looking through one of those old stereo slide viwers.

#13342721 - 12/08/18 Re: "Cheap" binoculars [Re: Mule Deer]  
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Blu_Cs Online content
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John:

Years ago (15'ish?) I bough the Pentax WCF 8x42's you recommended. From Doug even! Love them. That said as my eyes deteriorate with age I find myself flipping my eyeglasses up and down to get the things in correct focus, so a bit rickety of a process.

The Pentaxes replaced some old "glasses on" binoculars (mebbe Bushnell's?) that were relegated to reserve status. But they were DESIGNED for eyeglass wearers.

Question: Following the theme of your article, are there good "cheap" binoculars out there actually designed for eyeglass wearers?

Thanks!

Blu_Cs


Do or do not. There is no "try" - Yoda
#13342753 - 12/08/18 Re: "Cheap" binoculars [Re: Mule Deer]  
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comerade Offline
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Thanks John, I like this type of conversation. Hunters needs to change from situation to situation, sheep hunters will spend the extra money for a minimal upgrade. You might look through them for 2 hours at a time, any advantage in viewing time could find that lamb tip that turns into the ram. For me I would take my old beaten .270 with a old fixed power scope and a state of the art binocular. I carry a decent compact spotting scope too. Whitetail hunters choose differently- different needs.


Lead,follow or get out of the wa
Bravo

#13342808 - 12/08/18 Re: "Cheap" binoculars [Re: comerade]  
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Mule Deer Online content
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comerade,

I think you would be surprised by some of the lower-priced binoculars. I've glass for hours through many of them.

Eyestrain can be caused by many things, including poor collimation of the two barrels, or not being able to "bend" the binocular barrels close enough or wide enough for your interpupillary distance. But often it's also due to the amount of "fuzz" around the edges of the field of view. This occurs in ALL binoculars, but in very good binoculars is extremely small. If the fuzz extends very far into the FOV, however, long-term glassing will result in eyestrain, due to the eyes trying to focus constantly, even though the FOV is sharp in the middle.

I've tested some lower-priced binoculars where the outer 1/3 of the FOV is fuzzy. I call this "donut vision," where only the center of the FOV is sharp. But there are a bunch of lower-than-alpha priced binoculars these days that have minimal edge-fuzz, so little you have to go looking for it to notice.


John

"Gunwriters, as you know, aren't as informed as their readers are and if it wasn't for the readers, there would be no need for writers..."--Shrapnel, May 2015
#13343084 - 12/08/18 Re: "Cheap" binoculars [Re: Mule Deer]  
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A word of caution to prospective buyers of the Yosemite 6x30 glass. Know your inter-pupillary distance, or look through them before you mail order them. The Gods, to amuse themselves, placed my eyes so far to Port and Starboard that many otherwise good quality binocs just won't work. Flintlocke.

#13343124 - 12/08/18 Re: "Cheap" binoculars [Re: flintlocke]  
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kellory Online content
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Originally Posted by flintlocke
A word of caution to prospective buyers of the Yosemite 6x30 glass. Know your inter-pupillary distance, or look through them before you mail order them. The Gods, to amuse themselves, placed my eyes so far to Port and Starboard that many otherwise good quality binocs just won't work. Flintlocke.

Ever try a monocular instead? It might be a viable option.


An unemployed Jester, is nobody's Fool.

the only real difference between a good tracker and a bad tracker, is observation. all the same data is present for both. The rest, is understanding what you're seeing.

~Molɔ̀ːn Labé Skýla~
#13343188 - 12/08/18 Re: "Cheap" binoculars [Re: Mule Deer]  
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Thanks for the tip, but I seem to be prone to eye fatigue when using one eye, at least during extended sessions at the spotting scope or rifle scope. I just gotta be aware of IP distance. Got all in a lather about getting the Yosemite's and before that Meade Safari Pro's and before that the 8.5x42 Audubon's (you can tell I'm a Porro guy?). Tons of good glass out there, but many of the Asian designs aren't concerned with the small percentage of folks on the high end of IP distance. Euro designs tend to accommodate us. Yea, I'm a slow learner.

#13343207 - 12/08/18 Re: "Cheap" binoculars [Re: kellory]  
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Rug3 Offline
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Originally Posted by kellory
Originally Posted by flintlocke
A word of caution to prospective buyers of the Yosemite 6x30 glass. Know your inter-pupillary distance, or look through them before you mail order them. The Gods, to amuse themselves, placed my eyes so far to Port and Starboard that many otherwise good quality binocs just won't work. Flintlocke.

Ever try a monocular instead? It might be a viable option.


Who makes a good monocular? Serious inquiry.


Trust in the LORD with all your heart; and lean not unto your own understanding. In all your ways acknowledge HIM, and HE shall direct your paths. Proverbs 3:5&6

Make goals. If you aim at nothing you're apt to hit it!

#13343245 - 12/08/18 Re: "Cheap" binoculars [Re: Mule Deer]  
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AlaskaCub Offline
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Good article but to compare apples to apples, when I found this forum you could get top shelf alpha glass from Doug for $1000, I bought several different pairs back then. Today the top alpha glass is $2000-$2500 + and spotters are in excess of $3000. IMO there’s no justification for even a dedicated hunter to spend the money on top shelf alpha glass these days unless the price is a non issue and they really feel they need it. I buy quality stuff but this fireman isn’t spending $2,000 + on Binos. I’ve got Meoptas that I’ve acquired second hand for a fraction of new price and a pair of 6x Yosemite’s when I want smaller. It’s nice to,have choices but sadly the Binos that were alpha glass of 20 years ago aren’t as good as many $400 Binos these days.

#13343251 - 12/08/18 Re: "Cheap" binoculars [Re: Rug3]  
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Originally Posted by Rug3
Originally Posted by kellory
Originally Posted by flintlocke
A word of caution to prospective buyers of the Yosemite 6x30 glass. Know your inter-pupillary distance, or look through them before you mail order them. The Gods, to amuse themselves, placed my eyes so far to Port and Starboard that many otherwise good quality binocs just won't work. Flintlocke.

Ever try a monocular instead? It might be a viable option.


Who makes a good monocular? Serious inquiry.

I don't know about high end stuff, but I used to carry a Simmons 8×21mm monocular.


An unemployed Jester, is nobody's Fool.

the only real difference between a good tracker and a bad tracker, is observation. all the same data is present for both. The rest, is understanding what you're seeing.

~Molɔ̀ːn Labé Skýla~
#13343283 - 12/08/18 Re: "Cheap" binoculars [Re: Mule Deer]  
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chlinstructor Offline
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Good article JB ! Thanks!


"Allways speak the truth and you will never have to remember what you said before..." Sam Houston
Texans, "We say Grace, We Say Mam, If You Don't Like it, We Don't Give a Damn!"

~Molɔ̀ːn Labé Skýla~
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