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Vferguson,
I hope to make it up there in the next few years. I've got a family heirloom shotgun that needs to down a few grouse before retirement.

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Originally Posted by Oheremicus
It's even worse when you hunt wild chukar after shooting few pen raised birds. The only thing that's "easy" about chukars is the open country where they live. The biologists who plant them found out the hard way that pen raised birds seldom take when planted in desert areas. But if they trapped wild birds, they did very well in their new homes. E

You don't hunt where I hunt, apparently.


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It's easy to generalize that wild birds are categorically faster than "pen-raised" birds but sometimes that's not true. It depends on how the pen-raised birds were flight-conditioned. Having grown up on a working southern plantation with wild birds, I've come full circle and now a guide at corp retreat that has no choice but to use commercially-produced birds. Our birds come from a producer who has long flight pens with black plastic sides so the birds never see a human except for when they're caught and transported. They are exercised regularly and forced to fly repeatedly, longer distances that wild Bobwhite quail usually go. Having said that, it has been my experience over the years (I'm 67) than wild quail and it seems logically reversed but that's my experience.

Once out in the field, when flushed our pen-raised birds typically take off like a bat out of hell, occasionally climbing up like a pheasant before leveling off - either way they average about a hundred to a hundred twenty-five yards before landing, and oh yeah, they quickly put the trees between you and them. They also can take the shot well and we now supply mostly #7.5's for our quests - I grew up shooting nothing but 9's. Most of our land is long-leaf pine and if a bird's wounded, they will bury under the pine straw several inches. I've had many experienced guests who've shot wild birds all their lives say that these birds are more difficult to shoot. I personally wouldn't claim that they are necessarily faster, but they damn sure aren't any slower. Given our situation most of the hunts last 2-3 hours and on the average, at least half of the birds escape unharmed. Predominantly, most of these instinctively fly to cover; the few that don't are quick meals for the many hawks we have. Holdovers quickly covey-up and if able to avoid too much rain in the first couple of weeks, quickly get their feather oils going - there's plenty weed seeds and tons of beggar-lice seeds for them to eat. Do we have many survive over the summer? No. I believe that's primarily because there's not enough of the right cover for successful rearing of chicks - but I'm not a biologist and I'm sure there many more factors at play. Are we typical of other preserves, I can't really say but we do strive to make the experience as close to the way it use to be when natural wild birds were so plentiful. Typical hunt (for me) is putting out 30 birds over a 5-10 acre area - maybe one set of (6) and the rest mostly in sets of (2) but occasionally (3). We only hunt with two guests shooting at a time. I alternate a setter with a pointer but only one dog on a hunt - if anyone has it "easy", it's the dog in that they get plenty repetitious opportunity and so are well-trained/exercised. Say what you will but if it were not for the availability of commercially-produced quail, we would have very, very few quail dogs these days and all the years and years of successful genetics of traditional pointing breeds would be lost.
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Agricultural practices of total clean harvest plus extensive drainage ditches (holdovers from the Soil Conservation Service) have all but eliminated edge cover and transition areas so necessary for the right habitat that will sustain quail; very few landowners manage for that, nor plant regenerative quail cover food like lezpedesa or partridge peas and the 'art' of true, effective controlled burning is all but disappearing. You have to have food and the right mixed cover for protection not only at rest but for bugging and underneath bare ground for chicks to move around easily. Even with endless resources, not many can or are willing to manage their land this consistently year after year, so like it or leave it, put & take quail hunting is here to stay.

Sorry for the long epistle, but since I'm the only dissenter of the popular opinion here, I figure I've gotten "equal time" smile

Last edited by Offshoreman; 01/18/19. Reason: typos

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As a 30 year old with my first gun dog I particularly enjoyed the few trips I've made to preserves this season. What's not to like about a hunt on usually comfortable ground where you can watch your dog work and end up with a nice bag of birds to eat?

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I only rhrew my age and experience in there to explain that I wasn't around for the " Glory days" of quail hunting in the south..

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I love going to Southern Idaho and watching the Utards shoot the pheasants that IDFG plants at various "public hunting areas". The damn things can barely fly and the Utards absolutely eat it up.

They think they're shooting wild birds.

Great entertainment.



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T inman, coming from a part of the country with no wild pheasant I'll gladly join in shooting the planted birds. They're pretty tasty in my experience!

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Yes they are...I've trained plenty of dogs over pen raised birds, and have absolutely nothing against shooting or eating them. I just find it entertaining when hordes of Utards drive up there thinking they're wild.

It's awesome.



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Well I live in Iowa and have hunted the uplands since I was a kid and have shot a Lot of Pheasants Quail and Hungarian Partridge.
Quail are not fast but have the illusion of being fast because they are small. Take your time let the shot develope, let the birds get on there track as they always make a turn some times slight sometimes a big turn, don't shoot at them when there making the turn.
I fly a business Jet for a company and have been to many Hunting preserves and shot many pen raised birds and they are not close to the speed of wild birds in my experience. Just tell your self they are not going to get away and take your time. This has allowed me to shoot many triples on Quail and once a quad yes four shots four birds.
Enjoy your Dog while you have him as they are a gift from God. Good Hunting

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Illusion is right....here in neb in the 70 s the quail were thick...we would jump coveys with 25-30 birds pretty much everywhere...
I could not hit one to save my life back then...I used a bolt action 20 with a pretty tight choke...I would stomp the grass and thickets looking at the ground when the busted they were up and out of my sight then I was forever behind....
Years later I attended Chuck Drykes shooting school back when I first started shooting clays...and found some tricks to eliminate the illusions ..first look where you think the bird will go and let it come to your vision...when in brush try to lock on 1 bird and not watch the birds whole covey ...brush is a tough game...

IC B3

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