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Back in the early 90's the Europeans came up with the idea the 8 x 56 fixed power high end scope was the optimum low lights rifle scope. The 8 x 56 Khales seemed to be the rage at that time and many guys I know bought into the fad.
All these years later, I am tempted to try a Schmidt & Bender Klassic in 8 x 56 one but wanted to see if the hype regarding this being the ultimate low light rifle scope had merit.
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It delivers the maximum exit pupil (7mm) that 99% of human beings can use to your eye. To get better you'd need a higher magnification, but also a larger objective lens. It has fewer lenses than a variable scope so less light is lost to reflection internally.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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I have a Hawke, obviously not in the same class, but gives me an idea of what an 8x56 has to offer. Bottom line for me is that lots of more versatile scopes are plenty bright enough for any legal shooting here, and are lighter and smaller to boot. Maybe the 8x56 has an edge under moonlight or other times that aren't legal here. If that is something you can do, go for it. I'm gonna swap that 22oz bugger out for something a little more portable, maybe put it on a range toy of some kind. It is a very nice scope with an illuminated dot and extra crossbars below for longer ranges. For less than $200 on clearance from CameraLand, I can't kick.
What fresh Hell is this?
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Hawke Endurance 30 8x56 is the way I went and I wouldn't argue the idea. Or a 7X. The Hawke has a lit dot too. Have not decided how it performs in low light yet....
Good luck, let us know. I can't imagine not being thrilled with a S&B.
"I can't be canceled, because, I don't give a fuuck!" --- Kid Rock 2022
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I spent the last light today in a mountainside stand that was thickly wooded, not a field. The entire day had been overcast...basically no "sunlight"... Legal shooting light was 1/2 hour past sunset. On a day like today light ends early, especially in wooded areas. I was using "ALPHA" glass but in a max power of 5x with 24mm objective, so an exit pupil of 4.8. The image was very clear and bright but the exit pupil was small. The ability to turn on illumination was extremely useful in the last few minutes.....especially the ability to control how bright the illumination was.
I'm a fan of fixed scopes....I'm a simple bastard. The idea of an 8x56 or 7x50 with an illuminated reticle (dot only) is a very attractive option for me.....especially if it were to come with the ability to dial repeatably and dependably for distance.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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The illusive FireDot Mil Quad 8X56 Fixedfreaker.
"I can't be canceled, because, I don't give a fuuck!" --- Kid Rock 2022
Holocaust Deniers, the ultimate perverted dipchits: Bristoe, TheRealHawkeye, stophel, Ghostinthemachine, anyone else?
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The illusive FireDot Mil Quad 8X56 Fixedfreaker. S&B might make something.. I'll be honest and say I really don't want to go there, but they do....
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Campfire Outfitter
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Zeiss makes an 8x56 rifle scope that is a great scope. Expensive, like S&B and Kahles, but great just the same.
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Campfire Outfitter
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Swarovski and S&B make 8x56, plus zeiss and kahles evidently. Meopta makes a 7x56. They're all designed for hog hunting at night in europe under moonlight. They're the fixed power versions of the 2.5-10x56 & 3-12x56 that all these companies offer. They work.
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My dad has an 8x56 Swaro on a rifle. I think he got it in the mid-late 90s and it is still hunting strong. Very useful for low light shooting.
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I shouldn't have started thinking about this..... Looking at S&B's options, the 8x56 and 7x50 are both interesting. The 7x50 is not a small scope but is more compact than the 8x56 both on objective and length.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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IIRC Weaver even made an 8x56
Last edited by 65BR; 12/08/18.
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Campfire Outfitter
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We've got great deals on Meopta 7x56's
S&B #836-811-862-73-94 10x42 P3 PMII only $1,699.99 this weekend.
Last edited by gr8fuldoug; 12/08/18.
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Campfire Ranger
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Between hogs and axis deer, that can be shot 24/7, this idea is tempting.
I've got a pair of Zeiss 10x50 Victory binos, and at one point had a big axis buck come in range after normal shooting light. I could make out the body well enough in the binos, but the svelte 6x33 Loopey on the #1 Ruger was a no-go. An 8x56 bino and scope sound appealing, but the cost would be about what a quality NV scope costs...
"...the designer of the .270 Ingwe cartridge!..."
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Campfire Tracker
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My favorite scope is a S&B 1.5-6x42. It takes very little light for that scope to be all I need. A partial moon will do, a town within 15 miles and a low cloud deck will do. I could hunt all night under those conditions with it. This scope has a FFP reticle andit is a modified German #4. The combination of FFP with that reticle means I can see the treticle well in very, very low light and I do not need illumination which IMO just makes it more difficult to see the target. I have never looked through an alpha 8x56 in very low light conditions, and I cannot imagine how much brighter it can be. I have tried my S&B, my Swarovski, Zeiss and Meopta scopes all in 1.5-6x42 4-5 hours after dark looking at rabbits in a tree line at about 50 yards. They were all up to showing me the rabbits well enough that I could see the eyes, ears and head that I could head shoot them did I want to. There was some ambient light like I described above.
I prefer those scopes because of the bottom end 1.5x. It is common for me to need that to deal with close deer in brush where I just have to stay on them until I get a clear shot. Shooting at moving deer in that king of conditions is much, much easier to do it right with little or no magnification. To even use 6x in very low light conditions I need a lot more time, even with that outstanding FFP reticle. If I had more open country to hunt in I would for sure have an 8x56 from one of the alpha companies.
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Campfire Tracker
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Zeiss makes an 8x56 rifle scope that is a great scope. I was fortunate to hunt with one on a 2013 hunt with Ready. It had an illuminated dot, and the view was just fantastic. Mounted atop a Blaser R-1 Hunter, it didn't feel as out of place as I'd have imagined. Then again, that might just have been on account of I was overseas: "When in Rome", y'know. I don't believe I took any "last light" shots, so I can't really say what game that scope would've allowed me to take, that another might not. Still, I suppose if one has the coin, and intends to hunt in low light often, it'd be hard to imagine a better option. FC
"Every day is a holiday, and every meal is a banquet."
- Mrs. FC
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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I shouldn't have started thinking about this..... Looking at S&B's options, the 8x56 and 7x50 are both interesting. The 7x50 is not a small scope but is more compact than the 8x56 both on objective and length. I have thus far avoided Fieldcraft threads....
"I can't be canceled, because, I don't give a fuuck!" --- Kid Rock 2022
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My favorite scope is a S&B 1.5-6x42. It takes very little light for that scope to be all I need. A partial moon will do, a town within 15 miles and a low cloud deck will do. I could hunt all night under those conditions with it. This scope has a FFP reticle andit is a modified German #4. The combination of FFP with that reticle means I can see the treticle well in very, very low light and I do not need illumination which IMO just makes it more difficult to see the target. I have never looked through an alpha 8x56 in very low light conditions, and I cannot imagine how much brighter it can be. I have tried my S&B, my Swarovski, Zeiss and Meopta scopes all in 1.5-6x42 4-5 hours after dark looking at rabbits in a tree line at about 50 yards. They were all up to showing me the rabbits well enough that I could see the eyes, ears and head that I could head shoot them did I want to. There was some ambient light like I described above.
I prefer those scopes because of the bottom end 1.5x. It is common for me to need that to deal with close deer in brush where I just have to stay on them until I get a clear shot. Shooting at moving deer in that king of conditions is much, much easier to do it right with little or no magnification. To even use 6x in very low light conditions I need a lot more time, even with that outstanding FFP reticle. If I had more open country to hunt in I would for sure have an 8x56 from one of the alpha companies. Miles58, my experience is the same as yours. Must be my eyes but my old Swaro 1.5 x 6 x42 seems better in the low light test than my S&B 1.5 x 42. I am able to see back in the woods clearer and farther than other scopes in a text I did recently. One thing I learned, while the ZA5 Minox 2 x 10 x 40 is surprisingly bright and clear and one would think it is close to the the Alpha's during the day, it literally falls flat on its face in low light and the Alpha scope keep going strong well after the Minox is unusable. My Zeiss monocular at 7 x 50 though works well past legal deer hunting and that is what got me to re-visit the 8 x 56. The hogs in South Texas seem to have an internal clock that put them out in the open just past legal shooting time, 30 minutes after sunset. This happens consistently. If the 8 x 56 is better at low light than a variable power alpha scope due to fewer lenses, it would be worth the switch and also give me an excuse for building another rifle to accommodate the height of the big honker scope. I have an old fixed 4 x 36 fixed power S&B that is most likely the clearest, brightest scope I have and it performs extremely well in low light. I have yet to find a scope significantly better than this old 4x and if you ever find one used, I would seriously recommend buying it. Problem is now, just not enough power for my old eyes. This is what got me to thinking if I could get 8 power with that kind of brightness and clarity in low light, it would be the cats meow.
Last edited by FSJeeper; 12/08/18.
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Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
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I have never, ever, never found a 6x42 lacking. But you boys keep chasing them unicorns.
"Dear Lord, save me from Your followers"
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Campfire Tracker
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I prefer thermal or night vision for hunting hogs or coyotes at night. In conventional the Meopta 6x42 or Leupold 6x42 especially with a German #4 reticle works from end of barrel to way the hell out yonder in legal shooting hours for big game
Guns don't kill people, it's mostly the bullets
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A 6x42 has the same exit pupil, is noticably smaller and there are more options. I have an S&B 8x56 that is getting dusty in the basement because of size and weight with the steel body. I would get a Meopta 6x42 over it every day of the week and twice on Sunday.
“Lighten up Francis”
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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I’d take am 8 power over a 6 power any and every day.
I got banned on another web site for a debate that happened on this site. That's a first
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Campfire Tracker
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I’d take am 8 power over a 6 power any and every day.
I agree. When the light is really low, magnification is your friend. I almost never take a shot in low light or moonlight at anything below 8x, and more often than not, I'll have the magnification cranked up to 10x or more. . Micky-You don't want that scope to get dusty. Send it to me LOL...I'll give it a good home!
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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I’d take am 8 power over a 6 power any and every day.
I agree. When the light is really low, magnification is your friend. I almost never take a shot in low light or moonlight at anything below 8x, and more often than not, I'll have the magnification cranked up to 10x or more. . Micky-You don't want that scope to get dusty. Send it to me LOL...I'll give it a good home! Exactly. I use 10X most of the time.
I got banned on another web site for a debate that happened on this site. That's a first
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I have never, ever, never found a 6x42 lacking. But you boys keep chasing them unicorns. Even a 6X FF is pretty damn bright and not lacking after legal hunting hours.
Talking to you is like trying to nail jello to the wall.
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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I have never, ever, never found a 6x42 lacking. But you boys keep chasing them unicorns. This here.
Brushbuster: "Is this thread about the dear heard or there Jeans?" Plugger: "If you cant be safe at strip club in Detroit at 2am is anywhere safe?" Deer are somewhere all the time To report a post you disagree with, please push Alt + F4. Thank You.
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For those of you who keep mentioning "6x being bright enough," you're simply not grasping what low-light performance is about and what it requires. Not every animal appears at 50 yards. Take that 6x out on a night when there is diffused moonlight and tell me if that 150 yard hog is perfectly broadside or quartering. Chances are, you won't be able to.
Low-light or moonlight shooting is another game entirely, and unless you've actually gone out and done it, you have no idea. A simple 2x or 3x scope in broad daylight will suffice for just about any shot and out to extended ranges. But in moonlight, that 3x scope will render nothing but an unidentifiable blob when the target appears at 150-175 yards.
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Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
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For those of you who keep mentioning "6x being bright enough," you're simply not grasping what low-light performance is about and what it requires. Not every animal appears at 50 yards. Take that 6x out on a night when there is diffused moonlight and tell me if that 150 yard hog is perfectly broadside or quartering. Chances are, you won't be able to.
Low-light or moonlight shooting is another game entirely, and unless you've actually gone out and done it, you have no idea. A simple 2x or 3x scope in broad daylight will suffice for just about any shot and out to extended ranges. But in moonlight, that 3x scope will render nothing but an unidentifiable blob when the target appears at 150-175 yards. Correct, my experience in never having a problem is completely wrong. I'll also admit to no experience shooting critters over a pile of corn at midnight. I have killed more than a few coyotes at night, albeit the longest was 125 yards or so and no feeders were involved. I'd imagine things are darker in Texas. I know how dark and eerie those vast forests in west Texas and the Hill country can be. I have no doubt that Texas dark is darker than anyplace else in the world.
"Dear Lord, save me from Your followers"
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You know what they say about those who assume, right Steelhead? For one, I don't shoot anything over a pile of corn. My preferred hunting method was spot and stalk, but I am now disabled and can't get out and do that anymore, so my opportunities are extremely limited. I want to make the most of them, so I have chosen to use an optic that won't let me down. We do live in a remote area, and there are times I am able to snipe a coyote or hog from near the house, but it's usually in poor light or well into the night. I've tried just about every good low-light scope out there and have spent significant time with them. I know what works and what doesn't from personal experience and won't venture an opinion otherwise just to drive my post count up or feed a narcissistic ego. Nonetheless, you continue to be stuck on "brightness"of a scope and hurling stereotypical schoolyard insults. So be it. But again, I'll say that most modern scopes above the $300 range are amply "bright." But that doesn't mean squat when a scope doesn't have the resolution to render fine detail in twilight, the contrast to allow an adequate separation of tonal ranges, the magnification needed to allow proper target identification or isn't fitted with a reticle suitable for the task.
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For my eyes looking into the tree line at 120 yards with my 1.5 x 6 x 42 Swaro or S&B, 6 power is not quite enough for my eyes after dusk to feel comfortable to make a shot at that distance. My gut is telling me the extra 2 power, combined with the clarity from less lenses in the fixed power, may be just the ticket for reaching further back into the woods for deer at that critical time and popping hogs when they come out.
I have night vision dedicated rifles, they are just a PITA to walk in two rifles to the stand and I would rather hunt through optics any day of the week versus a fuzzy night vision monitor screen.
Last edited by FSJeeper; 12/09/18.
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For my eyes looking into the tree line at 120 yards with my 1.5 x 6 x 42 Swaro or S&B, 6 power is not quite enough for my eyes after dusk to feel comfortable to make a shot at that distance. My gut is telling me the extra 2 power, combined with the clarity from less lenses in the fixed power, may be just the ticket for reaching further back into the woods for deer at that critical time and popping hogs when they come out.
Those are my findings and experiences as well...
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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For my eyes looking into the tree line at 120 yards with my 1.5 x 6 x 42 Swaro or S&B, 6 power is not quite enough for my eyes after dusk to feel comfortable to make a shot at that distance. My gut is telling me the extra 2 power, combined with the clarity from less lenses in the fixed power, may be just the ticket for reaching further back into the woods for deer at that critical time and popping hogs when they come out.
Those are my findings and experiences as well... Yep it will definately make a difference
I got banned on another web site for a debate that happened on this site. That's a first
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Campfire Outfitter
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Hawke Endurance 8×56 LR DOT #16240 only $189.99, reduced from $249.99 - Down to the last one
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Campfire Greenhorn
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Campfire Greenhorn
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No hype. I have one (SB 8x56) And, it is NOT for sale.
Last edited by IceCut; 12/11/18.
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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My favorite scope is a S&B 1.5-6x42. I'm super interested in this one, not for night hunting. Need to replace quite a few scopes in the near future.
_______________________________________________________ An 8 dollar driveway boy living in a T-111 shack
LOL
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Done
"I can't be canceled, because, I don't give a fuuck!" --- Kid Rock 2022
Holocaust Deniers, the ultimate perverted dipchits: Bristoe, TheRealHawkeye, stophel, Ghostinthemachine, anyone else?
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Campfire Greenhorn
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Campfire Greenhorn
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In dim light/moonlight higher magnification rules. Though a fixed power scope has less lens/more light if the dif is 90-92.5 you cannot tell the difference as you need 3% to notice a change. A recent variable w/IR dot, latest coatings offers wide FOV for general panning and ability to quickly zero in magnification.
The last of two models that started the Sightron Stac line 2014, 2.5-17.5x56 IR dot was discontinued this yr. In 2015 it was offered w/4A IR red dot. Except for the rest of what's left being at least half of the price I couldn't understand its demise.
I have a 8x56 bin from the 70's. Night Owl whose hook line was, "How to see a black cat at night". Not real bad for very limited ocular/objective coating, non-phase coated roof prism w/really narrow FOV. They were MIJ mail order that sold primarily out of outdoor style magazines. If the mag had 110 pgs this ad could be found right around 106.
They definately were never the cat's meow, but they aren't novelty bins.
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Thanks for everyone's input, pulled the trigger on the S&B 8 x 56. I'll report back with a side by side comparison to other alpha scopes and others and determine if this really is the ultimate optic for low light other than night vision.
Hopefully have it by Christmas.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Done I feel so cheap.....
"I can't be canceled, because, I don't give a fuuck!" --- Kid Rock 2022
Holocaust Deniers, the ultimate perverted dipchits: Bristoe, TheRealHawkeye, stophel, Ghostinthemachine, anyone else?
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Campfire Outfitter
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Found 1 more in the warehouse. So don't fret if you thought you missed out. 1 left
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Done I feel so cheap..... This is the funniest line I have ever seen here. Hilarious! If you don't mind I would like to borrow this for future use.
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Campfire Outfitter
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We have a few of the MeoStar R2 8x56 Riflescopes in your choice of 4C or 4K reduced from $1,499.95 to only $999.99
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Campfire Tracker
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I doubt you will be disappointed with the S&B performance.
Magnification definitely is an asset in low light, particularly as one gets older. Personally, a 5mm EP in a 42mm or 50mm objective works well for me in low light for WT -- slightly dimmer than 6x in the same scope, but the higher magnification will show more detail. I was perfectly happy with killing at 6x in my 30's & 40's but ongoing comparisons are compelling. Your eyeballs do not improve with age.
I never had an 8x56 bino when I was younger, but I imagine it would have been a great asset, particularly to a guy with excellent vision. Of late have been putting a 10x56 to good use in the lowlands.
There is little contest between a 6x30 bino and a 10x50 in low light judging a set of antlers...both have EPs of 5...of course we all can get by with a recurve in low light with no optics at all...:)
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