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Thank you for taking the time to write this. Great article.
To me the 3 most undiscovered (due to lack of marketing) is Hawke, Kowa and Meopta. Great glass just not "Main stream" brands


Doug @ Camera Land

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Thanks for the support.

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The comment re: birdwatcher forum reviews is very relevant. Those folks know and use good glass. Several years ago, a birder friend of my wife recommended Brunton Echo 8x42s as an exceptional value. I bought her a pair and later bought myself a pair at a deep discount when they were replaced by a newer model. I have used them for 10+ years and only recently upgraded to Leicas. Another bino that I considered was the new Burris Signature HD. Mule Deer reviewed them in RLN and a friend of mine bought a pair. Not sure if the Leica is that much better than the Signature HD, but that’s what I bought from Doug. There is so much good glass out there it is sometimes hard to choose. Happy Trails

PS: buy the best. Your kids will appreciate it at the estate sale

Last edited by WAM; 12/06/18.

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Great article, MD.

In the late 90's through mid-2000s, I worked as a sales rep. I handled two of the 'alpha' glass companies - Leica and Swarovski. When I left that rep group, I kept my scopes. All of those scopes sold for $1000-$1500 or more. I recently did a side-by-side test of a 2000's era Leica and a Zeiss HD5 from 3 years ago. The Zeiss I picked up when they were starting to clear them out and paid around $700 for. The Leica's had a retail of $1300 or so. The Zeiss gave a sharper rendition of things I looked at. Birds, bricks on neighbors houses, leaves on a live oak etc. Color-wise, I could see little, if any difference. That evening, I went out in near-dark and looked again. The Zeiss again had a bit of an edge.
Glass has come a long way in a short amount of time. The low-end stuff we suffered with 20-30 years ago we wouldn't touch now in comparison to what we have available.


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Thanks for an interesting and informative article and for the discussion that followed. I have one experience to share that explains an issue that I have not seen posted here, or anywhere else on optics forums for that matter.

About 15 years ago I went sheep hunting in the Yukon. My guide seems to have very good "game eyes" and used a pair of the very best Leica roof prism 10x42 binoculars. I was using a modest pair of Bushnell porro prism 10x42's. I was amazed at what my guide could spot, partly because he had the experience and I assumed also because he had better binoculars. He offered to let me look through his binoculars a few times. I inadvertently insulted him him when I informed him I couldn't tell any difference between his beloved Leica and my Bushnell.

A year later I had my vision corrected with laser surgery, adjusting both eyes. I suddenly could appreciate the small but real differences in definition between different quality lenses. I had never known or imagined anything else but the poorly defined vision I had before the surgery, and before the surgery I was not able to utilize the advantages that alpha glass offers because of the limitations of my vision. I suspect that there are many like me, and if they are looking through the best lenses in the world with eyes that cannot see the difference, all the $$$$ and the technology in the world is a waste for them.
I now use a pair of Swarovski 8.5x42 EL binoculars that I think are very wonderful, and my old Bushnells, although perfectly OK for most things, get used as spares.

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Doug,

Thanks! Haven't tried a Kowa for a while, but was impressed when I did.


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John Steinbeck
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castnblast,

Yep, difference in eyesight can affect how we see through binoculars. Which is why I've always conducted many tests with a line-up of binoculars (or scopes) and several people, from their 20's on up, and those who've had their eyesight "corrected" with surgery.

I have written about this before, including the fact that even in humans whose eyes test 20/20 (or better) there are differences in binoculars (especially color transmission and pupil expansion) that can make a big difference in how individuals perceive the view through the same binocular.


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Mule Deer, thanks for your wisdom and experience. Your answer is just what i would expect and have always received from you. My only other comment is my hope that optics shoppers like I was, who have "sub-optimal" eyesight need not feel pressured to buy expensive optical equipment that they cannot take full advantage of, and top retailers like Camera Land recognize that fact and don't try to "up sell' to people who receive no benefit from spending more money. Another good reason for a wide range of consumer products. Try before you buy, don't just trust someone else's opinion.

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The $80 6x30 Leupold Yosemites are an astonishing bargain. A pair of Nikon Monarchs in 8x42 for under $300 compare very favorably with my ornithologist niece's 8x42 Leicas. Optics have come a long way in the past 20 years.


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I am not limited nearly as much by price/quality, alpha, mid-range, or whatever - as I am by intra-ocular distance - most bino's go to 75 mm.
My wide-set eyeballs need ~ 77 mm, therefore I am VERY limited in availability. Minox has been the best I've found FOR ME.


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Mule Deer. About 15 years ago, I went into a "bird store" and looked thru the binoculars they had in stock. There was one that I looked thru that gave me that "WOW" we hear about. It was the Pentax you talked about in your first post. I have not looked thru any since that gave me the same view of things. My eyesight isn't great, which may have an effect on how I view things thru binoculars, but the majority I have looked thru seem very similar (really nice overall with nothing to complain about). I attribute this to a large extent to the fact that the great influx in new optics companies has caused the glass makers to create much better glass on the whole in recent years. Before, there were cheap binoculars and really good binoculars with not a lot of overlap. Since Zen Ray and so many others hit the market, there is a very fuzzy line separating good and very good optics and prices generally have lowered. A quality optic that would sell for $1000 if manufactured in Europe can sell for a fraction of that if made in China. And if quality control is held to a high level, the finished product can be of equal quality as well.

I wish that I could have afforded the Pentax back in the day as I still remember the feeling looking thru them, but there are so many really good binoculars today I am sure I can find another "wow" binocular and probably at a much lower price.

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joe6555

Likewise about 20 years ago I was in a LGS and looking at some binoculars when I picked up a used Optolyth 8x32 porro. Looking out the back door I could see a brushy hill about 2 miles away. This was during the fall after most of the leaves were gone. Through all the previous binos the leafless bushes looked more like fuzzy blobs when I looked though those Optolyth they looked like individual limbs and twigs I was amazed, had I had $400 I would have bought them on the spot but alas it was not to be.


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These things are just delightful...

https://www.leupold.com/binoculars/bx-1-yosemite-6x30mm

Close up stuff is like looking through one of those old stereo slide viwers.

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John:

Years ago (15'ish?) I bough the Pentax WCF 8x42's you recommended. From Doug even! Love them. That said as my eyes deteriorate with age I find myself flipping my eyeglasses up and down to get the things in correct focus, so a bit rickety of a process.

The Pentaxes replaced some old "glasses on" binoculars (mebbe Bushnell's?) that were relegated to reserve status. But they were DESIGNED for eyeglass wearers.

Question: Following the theme of your article, are there good "cheap" binoculars out there actually designed for eyeglass wearers?

Thanks!

Blu_Cs


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Thanks John, I like this type of conversation. Hunters needs to change from situation to situation, sheep hunters will spend the extra money for a minimal upgrade. You might look through them for 2 hours at a time, any advantage in viewing time could find that lamb tip that turns into the ram. For me I would take my old beaten .270 with a old fixed power scope and a state of the art binocular. I carry a decent compact spotting scope too. Whitetail hunters choose differently- different needs.

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comerade,

I think you would be surprised by some of the lower-priced binoculars. I've glass for hours through many of them.

Eyestrain can be caused by many things, including poor collimation of the two barrels, or not being able to "bend" the binocular barrels close enough or wide enough for your interpupillary distance. But often it's also due to the amount of "fuzz" around the edges of the field of view. This occurs in ALL binoculars, but in very good binoculars is extremely small. If the fuzz extends very far into the FOV, however, long-term glassing will result in eyestrain, due to the eyes trying to focus constantly, even though the FOV is sharp in the middle.

I've tested some lower-priced binoculars where the outer 1/3 of the FOV is fuzzy. I call this "donut vision," where only the center of the FOV is sharp. But there are a bunch of lower-than-alpha priced binoculars these days that have minimal edge-fuzz, so little you have to go looking for it to notice.


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A word of caution to prospective buyers of the Yosemite 6x30 glass. Know your inter-pupillary distance, or look through them before you mail order them. The Gods, to amuse themselves, placed my eyes so far to Port and Starboard that many otherwise good quality binocs just won't work. Flintlocke.


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Originally Posted by flintlocke
A word of caution to prospective buyers of the Yosemite 6x30 glass. Know your inter-pupillary distance, or look through them before you mail order them. The Gods, to amuse themselves, placed my eyes so far to Port and Starboard that many otherwise good quality binocs just won't work. Flintlocke.

Ever try a monocular instead? It might be a viable option.


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the only real difference between a good tracker and a bad tracker, is observation. all the same data is present for both. The rest, is understanding what you're seeing.

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Thanks for the tip, but I seem to be prone to eye fatigue when using one eye, at least during extended sessions at the spotting scope or rifle scope. I just gotta be aware of IP distance. Got all in a lather about getting the Yosemite's and before that Meade Safari Pro's and before that the 8.5x42 Audubon's (you can tell I'm a Porro guy?). Tons of good glass out there, but many of the Asian designs aren't concerned with the small percentage of folks on the high end of IP distance. Euro designs tend to accommodate us. Yea, I'm a slow learner.


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Originally Posted by kellory
Originally Posted by flintlocke
A word of caution to prospective buyers of the Yosemite 6x30 glass. Know your inter-pupillary distance, or look through them before you mail order them. The Gods, to amuse themselves, placed my eyes so far to Port and Starboard that many otherwise good quality binocs just won't work. Flintlocke.

Ever try a monocular instead? It might be a viable option.


Who makes a good monocular? Serious inquiry.


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Good article but to compare apples to apples, when I found this forum you could get top shelf alpha glass from Doug for $1000, I bought several different pairs back then. Today the top alpha glass is $2000-$2500 + and spotters are in excess of $3000. IMO there’s no justification for even a dedicated hunter to spend the money on top shelf alpha glass these days unless the price is a non issue and they really feel they need it. I buy quality stuff but this fireman isn’t spending $2,000 + on Binos. I’ve got Meoptas that I’ve acquired second hand for a fraction of new price and a pair of 6x Yosemite’s when I want smaller. It’s nice to,have choices but sadly the Binos that were alpha glass of 20 years ago aren’t as good as many $400 Binos these days.

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